When I was still studying, working people could be very condescending, saying 'you don't know what life is about until you start working'. It always seemed like people under the age of 22 didn't have the right to answer philosophical or 'adult' questions, because they didn't know what life was really about.

As I'm working now, I think the only difference is that working people just talk very often about very superficial topics. In class, I can discuss big issues with the students, but when I see my colleagues, it's always about the new car they bought, about the televion-programme of last evening, or about the new brown boots they will buy next weekend.

That's fine, but after three minutes I'm all and happy to be among the youngsters again.

What do you think?

(btw, I've started to read a very superficial women's magazine myself. I still don't understand it)

I'm just glad to be off work early today....

so I can take my daughter to the doctor

MarieLouise said:

There are other things in life?

But, seriously...

I don't think you can have a mature perspective on life until you start working for your living.

I think that, once people do that, they realize how important money is to a comfortable existence and some of their idealism regarding material things fades away.

Perhaps, as people age, they become a little more honest with themselves about their desires, as well. I know that when I was in my teens and early twenties, I was more focused on art and creativity and making a lot of money was not a priority in my life. At a certain point, I admitted to myself that I wanted to make a lot of money and pursued it. That doesn't mean I don't think about and discuss "big issues", but I think you'll find the workplace generally does not lend itself to these types of conversations.

Ace said:

Ok, I understand what you're saying, but still, it amazes me how much people talk about money, wages, money-related things. There's a limit to it.

MarieLouise said:

A lot of people do not like to discuss philosophical or political issues as doing so often pierces the heavy armor of denial most people wear that lets us enjoy shallow things while genocide is going on in Darfur (for example); hence the small talk.

As David Baerwald said, "If ninety-five percent of society was not in a complete state of denial, our society would explode; people couldn't look each other in the face."

Ace said:

You're right. Staying guilty keeps us healthy.

But sometimes, I really want to talk with someone, you know.

So, to resume, I guess the major change for me is having less time to see my friends. And missing them like crazy.

MarieLouise said:

Within reason. You can also feel so much guilt about things that you cannot control that it sends you into a paralyzing depression. As with everything else in life, balance is the key.

My first "real" job out of college was working at a law firm. The main lawyer didn't even say hello or good morning to me for 3 months. He paid me a shitty salary and would keep me there till 7 sometimes 8pm, depending on how many files he would THROW at my feet. I cried everyday when I got home. I thought that's how it was in the "real world". I quit after 8 months and it was the best thing I ever did. Now I have a great job that I love.

MarieLouise said:

I think people tend to stay away from serious topics because they're not "appropriate" to discuss. People can get heated regarding things like politics, etc., so they tend to stick with safer subjects. When the last Presidential election was going on, I tried to have intelligent conversations with my collegues about it and none would really discuss it with me.
As for the biggest change for me? Dealing with people and their bullshit and backstabbing and jealousy.
[Edited 12/6/05 13:54pm]

paying dues in the workplace takes many forms

taking condescending abuse stops when self realization

begins

MarieLouise said:

People just like to be condescending, because they want to be rightous, and they fail to see that all they achieve to be anything but selfrightous and stupid.

Your statement could lose all the words execpt theses.

MarieLouise said:

I think it depends upon the field a person enters, too.

I am a social worker, so I was always eager to get out of school and into "the real world" to put theory into practice and to feel as if I was making a difference. (then again, I had to work while I was in college, so it's not like I was completely insulated from the workplace)

In some ways, we've been able to maintain feelings of integrity, honor and depth in my office because of the intensity of what we do on a daily basis. For many, though, I don't think this is a realistic expectation because I think most people view their "real" lives as occuring outside of the office--work is not the end all/be all of existence, it's just something they have to do in order to pay the bills, raise their kids, etc.

Some people become lifetime students for the very reasons you're describing, MarieLouise, stretching out their academic careers as long as they can! Or they become teachers themselves, so they can stay in that environment of ideas...

AnotherLoverToo said:

That's what I think too. Sometimes you'll meet collegues that like to discuss things, other than the colour of the car they're gonna buy, and have a true interest in arts, politics or whatever. It's nice when you meet new people and notice they have something interesting to say.
But most people don't want to bond in such a way with collegues. Maybe it's different when you find a new job, and not a temporary one


About the difference between a student's life and 'real' life: Although I still don't have a job (graduated in June) I feel that I'm learning a lot of new things about the 'real' world. I'm eager to know all these things, but at the same time and don't like all of it.

MarieLousie said:

I hope it's not the one that starts with an 'F' and ends with 'air'?
Very superficial... but once in a while, when they have a nice restaurant or hotel discounts... I buy one

isadora said:

I know, it has no flair reading Flair.

The biggest difference, for me, is that I have very little time left to do stuff. Going to the bank or the postal office suddenly becomes a planning issue, because they are of course closed when I leave work

Furthermore, it's all the things you need to take care of, because you're on your own. Insurances, bills, contracts, taxes, etc. Administration becomes a part of you, whereas before, you didn't need to worry about all that.

Life as a student was pretty 'light'. That's the only difference. But on the other hand, I can now buy stuff if I want too Plus the reassuring fact that I can take care of myself if I need too, or even myself and someone else...

MarieLouise said:

I was working in my field while finishing school, but I also started college at 20, rather than 18. So in many ways I understand the "old birds". I'd be 25 in a class full of 18 to 20 years and feel the same way: "you kids have nooo f&cking clue". I feel like my current job does not intellectually challenge me. I usually use it (my egghead brain) once a week. Which is why I have chosen to go to grad school. You also cannot find a job that pays a liveable income without a master's degree....a shame, really.

But really, from 22 to 25, I changed A LOT. I HATED being among some spoiled brats all day that were going to school on mom and pop's tab. So I can sit on both sides. My girlfriend and I both were 25 when we graduated from school (from a highly esteemed one, at that) and she had a 5 year old to take care of. So yes, being an intellect is one thing, but juggling "real world" responsibilities is also a factor.

By the way, so many people told me how much college was great fun and their best years.... Not for me. I almost lost my apartment so many times I couldn't count, my phone was at risk of being cut off or was cut off each month. No power for a week. School was tough when you had to fend for yourself by yourself.

And now I owe Uncle Sam a small vehicle, or at least the loan payments are like it. And when you are in your first "career" that is hard. Especially in this economic climate where it's not unemployment that plagues us, but underemployment. So enjoy it when you exit! Just know you need to have that hustle on before you graduate...that 15,000 dollar proof of purchase doesn't promise you a job outta college.

But yes, you get into this world and realize how stupid people are. And they are your bosses!