meow85 said:

My dear, you are a unique individual.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

matt said:

It's very interesting how they play this Clean Indoor Air Act, "All Washington residents have the right to breathe clean air".

Got any idea what the timeline is for their Clean OUTDOOR Air Act?


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

I figure I'll learn how to drive and get my license in case I need to for an emergency or whatever, but there's too many cons to cars and driving that I can't be bothered.

-it adds to an already polluted environment. I've got enough problems breathing as it is.
-it's fucking expensive. Nevermind buying the car, insurance, or maintenance, I couldn't even afford gas on my wages.
-I'm convinced that the North American "car culture" promotes laziness and is a contributing factor to the obesity epidemic.
-Traffic in my city is scary. Let me put it this way: we're the retirement capital of Canada.

theAudience said:

Or alternatively, consider: "All Washington residents...." What about non-residents who are merely visiting our state?

Anyway, what's interesting to me is how quickly the ban takes effect: this Thursday, 30 days after the election. I've already seen one restaurant displaying the official state-issued "Smoke-Free Washington" sticker by the door. And my understanding is that the hookah lounge in the University District will have no option other than going out of business... they sure didn't get much advance notice.

abierman said:

Wish Holland would do such a thing...

Bleeding smokers. Blowing their crap all over the place.

theAudience said:[quote]

matt said:

I so love this remark...

AsianBomb777 said:

I used to smoke for about 8 years.... stopped two years ago and now I dont have a problem with smokers... When I'm out eating..it just doesn't bother me... as long as smoke isn't blowing right in my face.... I'm fine with smokers...

Never gonna kiss a smoker again!! That's for damn sure!! Nasty!! might as well lick a ashtray...

Well, Washington state went smoke-free today. According to the bartender at the bar and grill across the street, they started enforcing the new law at midnight last night (or today, depending upon how you look at it).

From an academic standpoint, I see merit in both sides of the debate. But ultimately, I vote with my dollars, and I mentioned that they'd likely be seeing me much more often in the future.

If the government wants to exploit smokers by taxing the hell out of them (aka profiting from the sales of tobacco just like those evil cigarette companies) then they should suffer the consequences as well. They can't have their cake and eat it too.

HamsterHuey said:

Just saw this HH.

Thanks and back.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

matt said:

Very good point.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

matt said:

The controversial part of WA state's ban is that it includes 25 feet from the entrance of a building, so it's not a matter of just popping outside for a quick one. I think that's pretty ridiculous, although police have said they will most likely leave this issue to business owners and won't be outside enforcing the 25 feet rule.

AnotherLoverToo said:

I think it's great to go out and not have to put up with the smoke, just seems like a waste of time and money making laws to regulate the whole business, There have been non smoking establishments for quite some time anyway. As far as the "25 feet" rule, I think passers by are exempt from that so as long as you're moving you can puff.

I see it as totally rediculous to ban smoking in a restaurant. There are smoking sections and there are non-smoking sections. True, the smoke might possibly go through the air to the non-smoking section but not like if you were sitting around the smoker.

I've even been in restaurants where there is a total separate room for smokers and non-smokers will go to the restroom and walk past the smoking room and see someone come out, with the door swinging shut behind them, and start that fake cough that they like to do. Now, you know good and damn well they didn't breath enough of that smoke as quick as that door shut to cough. A lot of non-smokers just don't won't others to smoke period, any place, anywhere, or any time. They feel like they are "saving the world". It kind of makes them feel "holier than thou".

As far as nightclubs are concerned, I was shocked when I heard that smoking was banned in Los Angeles of all places. Even here, in dead ass, conservative ass Mississippi, we can smoke in nightclubs. There's not even a non-smoking section in most of the clubs here either. It doesn't happen often in clubs, but every so often, I light up a cigarette and some goodie two shoes goes..."cough, cough, cough". I'm thinking "bitch, that alcohol is going to kill you just like my cigarette is". I've even seen weed smokers go to coughing around a cigarette smoker. I'm thinking "now you really need to shut the fuck up". It seems to me that people like to frown on people for their vices but forget about their own.

Also, like The Audience said, there is pollution in the air from cars and also factories. You have to go outside sometime and breathe it but yet there are those that do that little fake cough when they walk past a swinging shut door to a smoking section. If that smoke bothers them that bad, I bet they must choke when they get outside and breathe those automobile fumes.

As others have posted, after cigarettes, then they will go after alcohol, caffiene, or anything else they don't like. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they go after sex.

I'm always respectful though and even ask someone, when they are riding in my car, if they mind if I smoke. I understand that not everyone smokes and the smoke bothers some people. However, some people take it to the extreme to the point that it's power with them and they want to control other people's lives. When I'm around someone like that, I light up a cigarette in front of them just to piss them off.
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[Edited 12/8/05 22:56pm]

vainandy said:

IMHO a "no smoking section" isn't much better than a "no chlorine section" in a swimming pool.



Huh? Smoking bans tend to be associated with liberal areas.

AnotherLoverToo said:

I seem to recall reading that health departments, and not the cops, will be charged with enforcing the law.

Anyway, you're right about the 25-foot rule being controversial. Many newspapers and individuals who would have otherwise supported this ballot initiative were opposed to it because of the 25-foot issue. Even the votes were in favor of going smoke-free (I'm told it won in all 39 counties), I have to wonder how much more successful it would have been if they dropped the 25-foot provision.

I understand the problem of having to walk through a cloud of smoke to enter a building. But I'm not sure this 25-foot rule is the best way to go about dealing with it. For instance, it also applies to the outdoor smoking areas in the back that some bars/clubs built before voluntarily going smoke-free. No non-smoker is going to be there unless he/she wants to be. Supposedly the Mirabeau Room had the misfortune of building a patio that, at its furthest point, is exactly 25 feet from the back door.

Hopefully either the law will be tweaked a bit, or, as you suggest, the 25-foot rule might just go unenforced.

Samaar said:

If I remember high school economics correctly, the market is supposed to respond to these things. If people want smoke-free clubs, then smoke-free clubs will open. In fact, I can think of at least two Seattle clubs that were smoke-free by their own choice before we voters approved the new law.

My libertarian and liberal sides are in conflict. On one hand, it seems that the market did start responding to the demand for non-smoking businesses, and perhaps we should have just let that process continue on its own.

OTOH, as a lawyer, I know that states (unlike the federal government) can regulate for the general welfare. Smoking has not been deemed a fundamental right (Substantive Due Process), nor have smokers been deemed a suspect class (Equal Protection). Thus, the proper legal standard should be rational basis scrutiny (i.e., is the ban "rationally related to a legitimate government interest?"), and most laws will survive that test.

theAudience said:

Rarely. I don't own one, and I ride an electric trolleybus to and from work. 90% of the electricity here is hydropower, which is pretty friendly to the air. (It also means our electricity bills are quite low.)

Is this thread still going?

meow85 said:

(and )

fathermcmeekle said:

[quote]

matt said:

I understand and respect your point as far as one large area in a restaurant goes with no walls separating them. However, I have been in restaurants that have a completely separate room for smokers and non-smokers are still not happy. They don't smoke and they don't want anyone else to be able to smoke either.




It gets pretty confusing down here when it comes to liberals and conservatives. Hidden racism and homophobia are so rampant down here (things I usually see conservatives down here being guilty of) that it gets kind of confusing as to what a liberal person really is. This is a state that still has that damn confederate flag as part of it's state flag and held a vote and it still remained. We also have a conservative governor that used the fact that his opponent opposed the state flag to win the election with the racist vote. These people seem to be the main ones complaining about smokers. They tend to control everything else down here and they also do a lot of bitching about smokers.

On the other hand, there aren't that many "health nuts" (no disrespect) down here. You know the kind. The ones that are vegetarians or always shopping in these stores that sell these strange herbs or health products. When it comes to other races, cultures, or homosexuals, they are usually the most liberal people you ever want to meet. I only clash heads with them when it comes to food and smoking.

A lot of the "health nuts" are actually trying to do right by not smoking and seem to be sincerely concerned with other people's health when they try to get it banned. I see a lot of the conservatives (I call them the Beverly Hillbillies....rednecks with money) as acting the same about smoking as they do about everything else. They only want to appear to be against it because it is "the right thing to do" plus it fits in well with their so-called "religious image" which is contradictory because they say they aren't racists but behind closed curtains at the polls, they vote for racist things like keeping the confederate flag. Get the liberals and conservatives down here together and talk about smoking and they become the best of friends. Mississippi lives in a world all it's own.
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[Edited 12/9/05 6:57am]

I'm not at work right now so that's what I'm doing right now, along with drinking my coffee. I have to work an evening event so, when I get off, I'm going to drink some alcohol and look for someone to have sex with. I'm going to be an old heathen all the way around.

vainandy said:

Well, that came from nowhere!??!

Andy, the Org wouldn't expect any less of you.

Good luck!

...I'd dare 'em to try and make me.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

I'm in my "Zelaira mood" this morning. It's cold outside and the cold weather makes me HOT!

vainandy said:

"Excuse me, I'm having a Zeleira moment. With just a few twinges of klhk".

Andy - cold, wet, stormy, dry, you're always feeling hot. Dirty dawg.

Give us all the gossip next week!

Well, say what you will about smoking bans... but one thing has become clear to me:

I'm going to spend many more of my evenings tipsy.

matt said:

Another impressive accomplishment.

One of the things I miss most about NYC.
Not having to own a car.


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431