Rhondab said:

restaurants, I agree, should be totally smoke free. i never lit up
a cigarett in a restaurant cuz it's simply horrible for someone if
they don't smoke and I light up a cigarette just as the waiter has
brought over their dinner.

but there shouldn't have to be a law on that, that is just common
sense. people pay good money for their food, so you can't go round
just spoiling it for them or waiting around until they ask you to
put out your cigarette.

in a bar, that's something else. everyone knows that in a bar the
percentage of smokers is high and usually most people who frequent
bars and clubs are ok with that.

AsylumUtopia said:

whatever, I fucking hate drugs, marihuana, pills, powder.....I hate the fact that Holland's reputation is built on this, our so-called tolerance has gotten out of control....

Getting all hyped about a cigarette whereas everybody can get their hands on these so-called 'soft'-drugs.....

weed is for losers!

wtf ?
There's really nothing wrong with moking weed
Alcohol is worse , at least weed doesn't make people violent !
[Edited 11/30/05 5:42am]

Dewrede said:

weed makes you stupid and leads to psychoses.....it's proven....

plus I hate the fact that I'm always confronted with the dutch drugs-issue whenever I take friends from other countries through town.....I'm sick of explaining!
Also, marihuana brings in the crime in this country: the 5 people who were shot & killed in Amsterdam at gunpoint over the last 5 weeks, weren't killed over a bottle of wodka!

Hey, neighbours, don't start this endless discussion about weed vs. cigarettes.

1) Who cares what is most damaging for our health? We can't deny having sex or eating strawberries will probably be more healthy, 'cause everything 'smoke' related is very bad. After all, your taking something into your lungs that isn't exactly like oxygent.

2) Those who only smoke cigs will despise the weed-smokers. Those who only smoke weed will say they don't see the use of smoking tobacco only, 'cause like that you're missing the biggest part of the fun. Those who don't smoke anything will say 'Wtf is the difference, you're both damaging your health'... and those who had experience with both will say

There are more interesting angles to this discussion!

abierman said:

Whatever , alcohol makes you more stupid
It can lead to severe brain damage and liver disfunctioning
Alcohol is a hard drug that can kill you

Weed can lead to psychoses but doesn't necessarily

If all drugs were legal there'd be no drug related crime
[Edited 11/30/05 5:59am]

MarieLouise said:

ok

Dewrede said:

sure, so does eating at McDonald's.....

friggin' hippie, the demise of our country is due to drugs, I take it you don't get around much!!
Fuck legalizing drugs, I'm asking for stricter authority.....when it comes to this, only zero-tolerance will work!

i'm not a hippie !

If there was a strickter authority concerning this , there'll be more
crime !
Doesn't take a genius to see that , does it !

abierman said:

Ah, now I see where you're coming from. Forget everything I said, I'd hate to upset your world view by imposing facts upon it.

oh wait, i didn't read the entire title of this thread correctly, i thought it was about althom...

AsylumUtopia said:

you're full of shit.....and you know it!


Just wait until they start shooting eachother in front of your doorstep in broad daylight!

abierman said:

Great retort, very clever.

meow85 said:

meow

i agree

~Ginnie

AsylumUtopia said:

you obviously dont know what you're talking about, you don't know what effect it can have on a country or city when you can get that shit everywhere 'legally' (it really isn't legal here, it's 'tolerated' in one direction.....nice dutch double standard!). When I state that they are shooting eachother on broad daylight, I am not kidding! Do some research on the drug-crime scene in Amsterdam..... Maybe google the name 'Bruinsma' and you'll see that it goes back a long way, authority can not do shit about it because there is no way back! And I can't critisize the oh so great dutch tolerance??? Just wait when you happen to pass a murder-scene in a nice neighbourhood at 1 pm, when kids are playing outside!

Until then, maybe choose your words wisely and think about the side-effects of 'soft-drugs'.....you think the dutch criminal world earns it money with cocaine???

AsylumUtopia said:

Even more so: when you're in Amsterdam, you're like: 'cool, I can smoke here.....what a cool place' Then you walk around like a zombie and leave.....great experience! You don't see the shit that comes along for that, therefore you should not judge just out of your perspective of convenience!

And really, I couldn't care less if you'd smoke yourself senseless.....I used to do it myself, I know what I'm talking about!

abierman said:

It's no different in Dublin, trust me. We've just had a new raft of legislation introduced to crack down on criminal gangs who've been on a shooting spree recently, in otherwise decent neighbourhoods. Do you think the tolerance of cannabis in Holland adds that much to the problem ? I guess it doesn't help, but I would think cocaine, herion and ecstasy are the real money-spinners, just like here. Given the difference in price between cannabis and cocaine, for instance, you'd need quite a few cannabis users to make the same level of profit as you would from one cocaine user. Anyway, I wasn't taking issue with problems posed by drug crime, merely your assertion that cannabis is 10 times more harmful than cigarettes.

luv4u said:

what????

AsylumUtopia said:

Yes, the bulk of the drug-crimes over here are cannabis related because of this:

* it is legal (tolerated) to sell cannabis once it is in the coffeeshops

* it is illegal to import cannabis or to grow it

nice double standard, eh??

* cannabis has a bigger grip on the market than coke, heroin or xtc (which is a fast-runner!).....price is not a factor, it's the amounts that count. These three are in a more 'exclusive' market.

* therefore, drug-criminals can make much more money easier and faster.




and yes, smoke from cannabis is 10x worse than that from tobacco!

AsylumUtopia said:

you can find in a lot of tests that marijuana produces more tar when smoked. simple logic then that it contributes to bad health, especially if you smoke cigarettes as well.

.
[Edited 11/30/05 10:55am]

bullchit.

Anxiety said:

Who has the username of "Smoking", and why did they get banned?

AsianBomb777 said:

That's "quite" a big accomplishment!



(sorry, Dan)

AsylumUtopia said:

Some people never let facts get in the way of their opinions.

Food for thought maybe...

I am a smoker who believes that current policy can be described as schizophrenic at best.
If cigarettes are as dangerous as studies show them to be, why are they still legal to purchase?
Consistent logic would dictate that a drug deemed this lethal would get the same legal treatment as cocaine or heroin.
The obvious reason...$$$$$?

Now with that being said, a few questions for those members of the current Smoking Inquisition

Do you drive a car? (And if you're in Los Angeles, do you breathe the air?)

Los Angeles air is filthy. Each day, some 1,650 tons a day of pollution that causes ozone are emitted, as well as 293 tons per day of particulate matter and 60 tons of sulfur oxides, which form particles downwind. After the federal government canceled the federal one-hour ozone standard earlier this year — which the area was to have met in 2010 — and replaced it with an eight-hour standard that must be met in 2021, the South Coast Air Quality Management District can no longer show exactly what will be needed to clean up the area’s air.



The Federal Highway Administration estimates the social costs of driving — pollution, noise, crashes and congestion — at 18 cents a mile. Others estimate such costs may be twice as high. The state Legislature, counties and cities should move to eliminate the free ride for motorists in a nonregressive manner. Options include fees levied for vehicle miles traveled, with reduced fees for poor people or those who are responsible and choose hybrids and other extremely low-emission vehicles, collected through the annual auto-registration process.

http://www.laweekly.com/i...olving.php


Does your child ride a bus to school?

The "wheels on the bus" do go "round and round" but what the children's tune fails to tell us is that the engines on these buses also go puff, puff, puff. Each school day nearly 600,000 school buses transport 24 million students to and from school nationwide. The majority of buses are powered by diesel fuel creating exhaust that contains forty different compounds, which are listed as hazardous air pollutants under the Clean Air Act. Three of these chemicals are known human carcinogens. In fact, according to John Wargo, Professor of Risk Analysis and Environmental Policy at Yale University, diesel exhaust from school buses ranks as among the top five key threats to children's health, resulting from poor environmental conditions.

While the exposure to diesel exhaust fumes should concern the general public, the threat is even greater for children whose lungs are not yet fully developed. The low diameter particles in diesel exhaust are inhaled deeply into the lungs of children, penetrating their narrow airways, where they are more likely to be retained than in the lungs of fully-grown adults. Researchers have not determined whether there is a level of diesel exhaust exposure that is considered "safe" for children, particularly for those with respiratory illness.

http://www.pbs.org/ttc/he...umes3.html
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

If health is really your primary concern, where is the vitriol aimed at yourself or current transportation systems for the pollutants spewed into the air everytime a vehicle is driven? Taking the big picture, much more harmful to you in the long run and much less avoidable than second-hand smoke.

Or is it that it's uncomfortable and inconvenient to overcome what might be considered an addiction to your vehicle and smokers are an easier target.

This is coming from a smoker who thinks that tobacco should be placed in the same category as cocaine and heroin (whether that be legal or illegal - just be consistent).


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

theAudience said:

I'm a non-smoker. I don't drive and don't plan to, ever. I walk pretty much everywhere. Also, my city's not all that bad as far as pollution goes.




....well, except in the summer when it's forest fire season. Then the air's so shit I have to stay in the basement with a dust mask on.

Washington state goes smoke-free next month. Basically, it'll be banned in every public place, except for Native American reservations (including the casinos). The question was put to the voters, and nearly 2/3 voted in favor of it. The people have spoken.

And yes, I understand the concept of "tyranny of the majority," thankyouverymuch.