First things first please dont move this to P+R this is not meant to turn in to a moral debate I am simply after the opinions of my peers.

Guys I was confronted with a moral dilemma today and i am interested in the opinions of the org.

I have a really good friend who asked a favour of me today.

For the last month I have been helping a mate out with a bit of advice, those of you that know me know that I went through a shitty divorce once and it messed with me, I was cheated on and that seems to mean to my mates that I am a good person to off load on when relationships go bad. Anway a month ago he called me because he had found out his wife was cheating on him. She was real cold about it and he went from wanting to kill her and the guys she was seeing and calling me at 3am because he just wanted to hold her.

Well it went bad again yesterday because she told him that the other guy wants
nothing to do with her anymore, he treated her real bad and what is more she is pregnant by him. My mate was really mature and they spent all night talking and he wants to make sure that she copes and is emotionally supported. He is overcoming the hate and seeing how much he loves her.
They have decided to have a termination, mostly her decision but they feel it is the best way forward.
I was a shoulder for him yesterday and despite the fact that I don't agree with abortion i was there as his friend and will support them whatever they do, that is what friends do.

Well today he phoned me and said that his wife is booked in on saturday for the termination, I have offered my help with their 18 month old and where else i can and then he asked the one that floored me.

They are going private and he does not have the money to pay for it.

He asked me to loan it too him.

It floored me.

I did because it is their choice and i am their friends, i am struggling a bit with how i feel though

What would you have done?
[Edited 10/12/05 13:24pm]

eek.

First off, it's a decision only you can make, and regardless of what you decided, no one can tell you you were wrong.

That said, you did the right thing. I can only hope to be as good a friend to the people I care about. No judgement, just doing what you can to help a friend in need.

i would not have loaned them the money. i understand it is her choice but i dont think its right to contribute to something that you feel is morally wrong. and in a way your involving yourself in a messy relationship that could go either way in the future because of the way the girlfriend treated him in the first place.

I would have done the same thing. You've done nothing wrong. Listen to us Carrie's...we know what we're talking about

Your friend shouldn't have to borrow the money. She was the one who got knocked up when she was cheating on him, so she better find the damn money herself.

I would have bailed out. I would have lied and said that I didn't have the money.

Why did she have to go to a private clinic? The National Health Service carries out abortion procedures without very much fuss.

Your friend asked too much of you. He shouldn't have asked.

I'm not saying you were wrong to do what you did - you were just being a really good friend. I'm explicitly saying that the person whom asked for the money didn't consider your feelings whatsoever.

retina said:

sounds mean but i agree.

Do all the non-Brits understand that she could have had the abortion without any cost whatsoever, because of our free public health system?

BinaryJustin said:

Yeah but those places are not nice and she is really delicate at the moment I understand his wish to look after her and ease this as much as is possible so i helped him out. It is not a massive amount of money and it will make the whole nasty process (emotionally) easier

I would have supported you in your decision to not loan the money for the abortion and I will support you in your decision to help them with the money for it.

I think you have to look at the bigger picture here. If they are serious about salvaging their relationship, a child from another man is not going to add anything good to the relationship and will be a constant reminder to your male friend and in the end the child would likely reap the resentment and anger. That is no way to raise a child.

Pray on it, that is if you pray, and realize this isn't an unforgivable sin. I think you did the right thing but don't beat yourself up over it. With or without you they would have chosen termination anyway. You were there as a friend and I think that's what counts here.

mdiver said:

If they're the sort of people who are more concerned about the decor of the hospital ward than the actual procedure, then maybe you were right to give them the money. I wouldn't want to be born into a family like that.

brownsugar said:

Thanks. I know it sounds harsh, but really; the least she could do is face the consequences of her actions and those consequences include arranging for an abortion. If it's free, then fine. If it's not, then she should pay.

What they do with their relationship after that is another issue and only they know what's best in that case. Sounds doomed if you ask me though.

.

BinaryJustin said:

Hey don't judge them in that way. He wants to salvage a relationship because he loves her and he believes that she loves him. He wants to make the path as easy as possible. I tried to help.
I may be overly sensitive but that wasout of order

mdiver said:

Don't listen to BJ hon..he's thinking of this one sided...and just being mean...

mdiver said:

I just think it's shitty that he even thought of asking you to loan him the money when she could have had the operation for free.

I'm not being mean!!!

BinaryJustin said:

Mate I think I am sensitive anyway but I think that the fact that he asked me when he is struggling anyway at least says that he views me as a close friend who he can say anything too. I hope i helped

retina said:

That's incredibly harsh.
She will be "paying" and in fact is already "paying" for her mistakes in many more ways than losing a few hundred dollars.
Why shouldn't a friend be given help when they need it?

CarrieMpls said:

The friend shouldn't even be asking for help. She should be asking for help. She's cheated on him and not only that, she's got herself knocked up in the process. The very least she can do to show that she's not a completely selfish tramp is to pay for her own damn abortion. It's not "incredibly harsh", it's just her facing the consequences of her own actions. It would be ludicrous if he would pay for the results of her adultery.
[Edited 10/12/05 14:11pm]

retina said:

But that's the nature of male female relationships isn't it? Always playing hero and damsel in distress.....

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

You're definitely on to something there. If the genders were reversed in this case then everybody would say "She should kick the cheating bastard out!" and - if men could get pregnant - "The son of a bitch got himself pregnant too? Hang him!"
[Edited 10/12/05 14:18pm]

there are no right or wrong answers here - you did what you felt you needed to do despite personal feelings - and that was very giving of you

my first reaction was "omg i can't believe he asked you"
i guess my first thought is that you would want to make sure that it is truely what she wants to do and not an act of desperation but ultimately that is up to her to decide regardless of what she thinks will further her relationship with your friend.

sounds like a complicated relationship that has a lot of crap to be sorted out - not the least of which is your friends feelings of betrayal

Retina, one thing you're not taking into account is the timing of it all. Once you find out you're pregnant you have a very small window for scheduling and having the procedure done. If she doesn't have the money on hand, she's got to find some way to take care of it now.
Also - this is a loan being asked for, not to pay for it outright.
And there's too much we don't know about it. He's in love with the girl, maybe he offered to help her find a way and now has taken it as his responsibility. In any scenario, mdiver is just providing the help he was asked for. Plain and simple. I still think he's a tremendous friend for it.
And like it or not, she's found a way to pay for it for now. She's taking responsibility.

Guys thankyou all for your opinions on this, the way i read this is that some of you support my decision (thankyou) and some of you think it was out of order for him to ask. (thankyou also)
It has helped me get some perspective
to you ALL

CarrieMpls said:

Again, she is the one who should ask her friends or family for the loan, not him.



I don't think he should. It's her responsibility and she should accept it fully. Then they can talk about their relationship.

I definitely understand how complicated it can be when those closest to you hurt you. The love doesn't vanish overnight because of it. But experience has taught me that both people involved in a relationship need to keep their dignity when something like this happens. If he helps her, it's almost as if he's legitimizing her actions. The best thing is for her to deal with this and thereby clean the slate for future discussions. If he gets to involved at this early stage he might end up feeling used and the whole thing will get messy.



If I was mdiver I'd try to help my friend, sure, but I think the best way of helping him is by strengthening him and supporting him with words, in this case the advice that she should look elsewhere first. If absolutely nothing comes out of it after she's made a real effort, then yeah, mdiver's and his friends friendship will be reason for him to help. But only if his friend is really sure that he wants to bow down in that way.



She's taking responsibility by letting her cuckolded husband's (or boyfriend's) friend put up the money? Don't be ridiculous.
[Edited 10/12/05 14:38pm]

mdiver said:

I don't understand his wish to look after her. She was screwing another guy behind his back. She made her bed, let her lie in it. Unless they have children together, I would say "So long" and never look back.

Ace said:

They have a beautiful 18 month old named Beth

mdiver said:

In that case, I would divorce and sue for custody and remain civil with her for the child's sake.

Ace said:

That is what he said the first day it happened but with time he knows that he can not throw away and switch off his love for her despite the betrayal

mdiver said:

Anyone who still "loves" someone who was fucking someone else behind their back should address their self-esteem issues in therapy (and I'm not being facetious here).