5 years of college with a journalism degree to work retail management $40,000
my best friend with high school diploma- electrician--$75,000
my sister in law --high school diploma-- FBI-- $100,000

My husband, not even high school diploma or ANYTHING, nearly goddamned CEO of tertiary institution with 9 campuses

if you have the drive, confidence and can talk your way through anything, then no you don't, if not, yes you do need to go to college/trade school

degrees are looked at as more of a look they are committed i don't think they actully mean anything outside of getting your first job.

If you've got a degree it's easy to say you don't need one. If you don't have one, try getting a job without it. I don't mean just any job.
I don't think they are necessary for the vast majority of professions, but if you don't have one and someone else does, all things being equal, they'll get the job over you every time. It's frustrating, sure. But then, there are lots of things you can do without one.

CarrieMpls said:

Agreed! I don't have a college degree, but have been doing administrative assistant (secretarial) work since high school graduation (24 years). You'd be surprised at the number of companies now that will not interview or even consider you if you don't have a degree. I have been refused interviews or even consideration for various jobs due to my lack of a college education. It's disgusting really, since I have always been of the opinion that you don't need a degree to be able to run various computer programs, type, fax, file, answer phones, schedule travel/meetings, etc. etc. Believe me, if you've done this type of work for as long as I have, it becomes second nature to you, and you feel like you can run circles around a college kid any day of the week. I would think that a company would take experience into consideration as well as education, but unfortunately, not all companies do.

Now, if a person wants to become a doctor, lawyer, nurse, engineer or biochemist, then yes, they definitely will need more education past high school. It depends on the line of work that a person is interested in, but I agree with Carrie's statement that not all occupations require a college degree.

I honestly feel that companies look at a college education as a person having the drive and ambition to make a better life for themselves. Nice thread topic, since this is something that has had me bugged lately.

The Education Gap
By DAVID BROOKS (NYT)
Published: September 25, 2005

Especially in these days after Katrina, everybody laments poverty and inequality. But what are you doing about it? For example, let's say you work at a university or a college. You are a cog in the one of the great inequality producing machines this country has known. What are you doing to change that?
As you doubtless know, as the information age matures, a new sort of stratification is setting in, between those with higher education and those without. College graduates earn nearly twice as much as high school graduates, and people with professional degrees earn nearly twice as much as those with college degrees.


But worse, this economic stratification is translating into social stratification. Only 28 percent of American adults have a college degree, but most of us in this group find ourselves in workplaces in social milieus where almost everybody has been to college. A social chasm is opening up between those in educated society and those in noneducated society, and you are beginning to see vast behavioral differences between the two groups.

For example, divorce rates for college grads are plummeting, but they are not for everyone else. The divorce rate for high school grads is now twice as high as that of college grads.

There are other behavior differences, large and small, which reflect the different social norms in the two classes. High school grads are twice as likely to smoke as college grads. They are much less likely to exercise. College grads are nearly twice as likely to vote. They are more than twice as likely to do voluntary work. They are much more likely to give blood. These behavioral gaps are widening.

We once had a society stratified by bloodlines, in which the Protestant Establishment was in one class, immigrants were in another and African-Americans were in another. Now we live in a society stratified by education. In many ways this system is more fair, but as the information economy matures, we are learning it comes with its own brutal barriers to opportunity and ascent.

In an agricultural or industrial society, you might grow up in a poor or disorganized family, but you could get a job in a factory and with some grit and determination work your way to respectability. But in an information society, college is the gateway to opportunity. Crucial life paths are set at age 18, which means family and upbringing matter more.

Educated parents not only pass down economic resources to their children, they pass down expectations, habits, knowledge and cognitive abilities. Pretty soon you end up with a hereditary meritocratic class that reinforces itself generation after generation.

You see the results in the college graduation data. In the 1970's, when the information age was young, kids from poorer, less educated families were catching up to kids from more affluent families when it came to earning college degrees. But now the gap between rich and poor is widening. Students in the poorest quarter of the population have an 8.6 percent chance of getting a college degree. Students in the top quarter have a 74.9 percent chance.

The most damning indictment of our university system is that these poorer kids are graduating from high school in greater numbers. It's when they get to college that they begin failing and dropping out.

Thomas Mortenson of the Pell Institute for the Study of Opportunity in Higher Education has collected a mountain of data on growing educational inequality. As he points out, universities have done a wonderful job educating affluent kids since 1980. But they ''have done a terrible job of including those from the bottom half of the family income distribution. In this respect, higher education is now causing most of the growing inequality and strengthening class structure of the United States.''

Part of the problem is that kids from poorer families have trouble affording higher education. But given the rising flow of aid money, financial barriers are not the main issue. A lot of it has to do with being academically prepared, psychologically prepared and culturally prepared for college.

I'm going to come back to this subject and write about what some colleges are doing to help these students and how most colleges are neglecting them. But let me conclude with the thought that while we have big political debates in this country about equality of results, all those on the left and right say they believe in equality of opportunity.

This is where America is failing most.

-END

One point the author neglects to mention is that some kids are promoted to higher grades and then graduation, just to get them through the system. In NYC, Mayor Bloomberg has sought to end this practice, and much to his credit, early results show that these kids are now held back, and benefit from summer school and other additional lessons instead of just being "promoted".
It is no wonder that kids who are promoted immediately feel lost in college, which engages in no such educational larceny.


Oh wait, they do. It's called sports.

-Eugnj

meltwithu said:

that's just crazy.....makes me wonder if I'm wastin' my time here. I'm in too deep to leave now though.

Yes this is why I will be working toward my second one starting in Jan. 2006, and while I am getting my teaching degree, I may just finish my business degree also, just because I hate leaving things I started unfinished. So in about 2 years that will give me the following....

1. BA in Art
2. BA in teaching so I can teach art
3. BA in Business


what a smarty I am.....

notoriousj said:

Take care of me please.

jerseykrs said:

Anything for you.

notoriousj said:

i'd go to one of the art schools here in minneapolis, but:

1) i haven't the money for it (yes, i know full-well about school grants).
2) i haven't the patience for it.
3) even if i get through school with a degree, chances are i'll end up working a job that doesn't even match up with what i went to school for.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

I hear ya on that! A good friend of mine got her degree in Office Administration and can't even find a good job in her field. Why? Because all of the companies are looking for experience, which she does not have. Now she's going back to working in retail again, which is what she was doing before she went to school. It's sad really, to spend all that money, graduate, and still be unable to find a decent job.

notoriousj said:

Dang, you are smart.

meltwithu said:

This question is being raised more and more. And with good reason: costs for higher education are crazy. But, consider the alternatives you mentioned: a trade (not everyone is skilled like that) and law enforcement-related stuff. Hmm. Neither are for me.

A journalism degree is great foundation for other fields: public relations, law, marketing, human relations -- all fields that tend to pay more (depending on your market and company) than what you're making in retail management. Still, given the consolidation of media outlets in recent years (all driven by Wall Street's lust for phat profit margins), be thankful you have been spared the upheavals experienced by many news outlets of varying media.

psychodelicide said:

To smart for my own good

The degree matters but not the major.
Every person that I've run into from my college was able to get a decent enough job,
but not in what they majored in.

Ironically, I quit college (with only one semester left to finish) & I'm actually working in the field that I majored in.

Go figger.
[Edited 10/5/05 21:42pm]

psychodelicide said:

I went to a four year university and graduated with $15,000+ in loans to pay back. I'm now working retail and making base pay - as much as my high school co-workers are.

Learning, yes...college, no. Just depends on the individual and their goals.

I personally loved college and classes...

I'm in the brokerage industry. I have 14 years of experience and five licenses. Doesn't mean a damn thing without that piece of paper particularly to get hired with firms like William Blair or Merrill Lynch. So, in the fall of 2006, I'm going to college for the first time. I'm getting a Bachelor's degree in business. My major's gonna be accounting.

when i'm finished i'll have a ba in art&design, a minor in business management and a minor in photography.
i don't think its always necessary. right now i'm going to Columbia college and i still don't know what the hell i'm gonna get out of it. but i do know that piece of paper will put me ahead. besides i what i really enjoy is all of the people ive met and interacted with. i love the art world and there's no other place i'd rather. but school isn't for everyone. the experience is something else. Honestly i don't know if i'll be a millionaire through art, but i love it, the people and the lifestyle. almost done so no turning back now

Nope college degrees are not necessary. I make over 50,000 now and in 3 years over 55 to 60. I am lonely though. i miss my baby boy.

saintsation said:

I made over 50 grand at my last job but I'm greedy and want to make 100 grand by the time I'm forty. The only way that is gonna happen in my field is if I go back to school.

Stymie said:

Well what the used in making money and trying to get more if u have no one to share it with. I miss my baby boy WAHHHHH WAHHHHH WAHHHHH

A degree will open up a lot of doors for you that may not have without a degree. I get paid more than I should for what I do and it's only cause of my degrees. I have:

BS in Business
BA in Psychology

Both out of the best university in the world: The University of Colorado at Boulder

I think college is necessary because I can't think of how to live life without one. I have no idea how people without a college degree do it. they must be pretty brave because whenever i think about living life without getting my degree and having to get a job after high school it scares me stiff.

Stymie said:

way to go, stymie! good luck!