That guy who drew the first 20 Freak Force issues, frank something, he was amazing

"Eat Shit And Die Shithead!"



genius.

Novabreaker said:

Yes, I loved that one! Truly poetical kinda stuff!

Here's a couple great looks at Rob's work. The first is an examination of his Craptain America books:

http://ape-law.com/GAF/Pa...index.html


...and here's a great look at his Youngblood series:

http://ape-law.com/GAF/Pa...anboy.html

JediMaster said:

David's one of the most inspired writers of the goddamn century !!!

shaomi said:

He is quite fantastic! I love his stuff, especially his runs on Hulk, Captain Marvel and Fallen Angel.

Why don't you send a link to this thread to this Rob guy, just to see how he reacts?

retina said:

He'd probably sue us all! He loves litigation.

JediMaster said:

He should know something about being a defendant by now!

JediMaster said:

I haven't read fallen angel but i've heard rumors that it could b sort of a sequel 2 his great, wonderful, extraordinary run on Supergirl. Is there any link between both series?

shaomi said:

It has been hinted, throughout the series, that "Lee" is actually Linda from the Supergirl series. However, now that DC has cancelled the series, David is taking it to another publisher, so that pretty much puts the kibosh on any hope of using Linda's backstory as Lee's. Word is that David plans on explaining her origin once it goes to the new publisher.

Oh, and you ABSOLUTELY should pick up this series! It is some of David's finest writing to date (and that is saying a whole lot, since he is one of the best writers in the biz).
[Edited 10/6/05 7:02am]

When a rob liefeld looks at a drawing by a Dale Keown, I wonder, what goes through his head? Does he see the difference? Golly I wonder.

evyrae said:

Liefeld does suck. Absolutely one of the worst. But he is cute.



Did you read that recent X-Force mini? It's absolutely laughable. Not only the art (half of which seems to be recycled from previously aborted projects he's got scattered over the last decade), but ESPECIALLY the plot. You can actually see Nicieza's hair on the page as he's yanking it out trying to wrestle the completely ridiculous plot into some sort of readable script. He didn't succeed by the way.

Absolutely dreadful. And I have to put John Bogdanove's run on X-Factor way up there too. And ... I think it was Bart Sears.... on that first Blade movie mini that never even finished being published because it was so bad.



But did you ever see someone named Chris Wozniak's (very) limited run on the original Excalibur? I know the guy had tough shoes to fill, replacing Alan Davis and all, but christ almighty. Now HE was grotesque. It was like the Liefeld style without any of the dynamic charm.

JediMaster said:

You need to take Bachallo's name off there. Have you seen his work lately? You can't even decipher what the hell it's supposed to be. He's disappeared so far up his own arse with that style of his that every panel looks like some abstract design. Like the patterns found on Incan pottery or something. He's really fallen a long, long way.

Tessa said:

Agreed on all of the above.

No, I skipped the X-Force mini, as I do all of Liefeld's stuff (I even quite collecting Teen Titans for two months while he is on the book). I DID flip through it in the shop, just for a laugh. MAN! What HORRIBLE artwork! Most artists improve with age, but he seems to have actually gotten worse!

JediMaster said:

it's interesting that they've put out TWO of these GSXM's in the last few months, and BOTH times, the artist originally solicited was replaced. the Cockrum instance is understandable. but it's not like Paul Smith isn't around. hell, they should have pulled him off that pointless Kitty Pryde mini he's drawing at the moment and just done 64 pages of Claremont and Smith.

Tessa said:

True. I'm thinking more of when he was on Death: The High Cost of Living. His recent stuff is truly bad. I also feel the same way about John Byrne. Back in the day, he was one of my faves, but his mosre recent stuff looks like a bad Byrne imitator.

JediMaster said:

As I said, it's not even the ARTWORK that's so horrible. Reading is believing. Honestly. It's completely impossible to follow along. For instance, the Stryfe that shows up turns out to be Domino in disguise (for no apparent reason), while Domino is standing there along with everyone else in the scene frozen because Cable did a mind freeze so they wouldn't know of this encounter with a future Domino that turned up to pass along some information that is really useless. You just would not believe it.

JediMaster said:

here's one.

http://img37.imageshack.u...eld2lj.jpg


that's just the tip of the iceberg, though.

JediMaster said:

just goes to show how important an inker can be. Bachallo's recent stuff ONLY looks good when it's a rush job and they have about 7 inkers on a book, and they're just filling out the sketches. and Byrne hasn't been the same since he lost Austin. inking himself, or having Palmer do it, just doesn't cut it.

Tessa said:

Yeah, I really don't know how he has stayed in comics for so long. He must be blowing publishers left and right, because he isn't getting by on his talent. He can't write worth a shit, and we can all see examples of his horrid "art" on this thread.

JediMaster said:

well, the truth is, his stuff still sells pretty well. and there IS that little bit of early 90's nostalgia. no, his stuff never looked good. but when he first hit it big, there was something kind of exciting about his art. it sucked, even then, before he TOTALLY lost it, but it did jump off the page at you.


though, honestly, unless you're a completist and he's doing a stint on one of the books you collect, i don't know why people are still into him.


he really ought to hang it up. he's a hack and everyone hates him. he should just stick to selling his old ideas to movie studios and bickering with other comic pros on the internet. that's about all he's good for (oh, and that Levis commercial where he looked so cute).

Tessa said:

Agreed. To top it off, Byrne's writing has also become stunningly bad. Its hard for me to believe that the guy who did the brilliant Superman reboot Man of Steel is also responsible for that pathetic Doom Patrol relaunch.

Your right, We are nostalgic for crap, I agree because crap evokes memories>

JediMaster said:

I haven't read comics for a long time, but that saddens me to find out Byrne has gone downhill. I used to be a big fan of his. When I was growing up in the UK, I used to be a regular letter-writer to the British reprints of DC comics, and coined the word "Byrned", as in "I heard that Fantastic Four is going to be Byrned again".

Now, can someone point me in the direction of a website that explains what Marvel has done with the Marvel Universe over the last 15 years or so - I've seen covers of comics recently, and I can't make head nor tail of it all. Is Venom now nothing to do with Spidey's costume from Secret Wars II? What's going on with the X-Men?

I liked Byrnes Nextmen, till he screwed up the ending.

booyah said:

I don't know of any website in particular that explains it all, but I can clear up a couple of things:

First off, there are (basically) TWO Marvel Universes now. There is the old-school MU that we all grew up with, and there is the Ultimate Marvel Universe. In a nutshell, the Ultimate Universe is a way for Marvel to tell new stories that are not hindered by decades of contiuity. Heroes such as Spidey, The X-Men, The FF and The Avengers have their origins retold in new, modern settings that make them slightly more relevant to today. It actually works surprisingly well, most of the time.

In the regular Marvel U, Venom is still the alien symbiote from Secret Wars (it wasn't SWII, but rather the first that Spidey aquired the suit). Recently, Eddie Brock died, and the symbiote has found a new host.

In the Ultimate U, Venom is a suit that was designed to cure cancer by Parker and Brock's fathers. Its all a bit complicated, but it is a really cool update on the Venom story that, I feel, works much better.

As for the X-Men, there's a whole lotta stuff going on, as usual. Currently, the best of the books is Astonishing X-Men, by Buffy/Angel/Firefly writer and creator Joss Whedon. Ultimate X-Men is also pretty cool.

evyrae said:

Many feel that is where he jumped the shark, with the ending of Next Men. Personally, I thought his run on New Gods and the Spider-Man books were where it all went wrong.

JediMaster said:

Thanks! Now, does that mean that any book with the title Ultimate... is from the Ultimate U, and any title without is not? Are they clearly labeled? Doesn't this cause a lot of confusion for casual fans?

Maybe we should leave this for another thread. Don't want to jack the Liefeld-bashing...
[Edited 10/6/05 12:55pm]