is there some unwritten law that says once you become a millionaire athlete you have to date/marry somebody other than your own race? i'm all for interracial dating..but i swear it seems like 80% of minority athletes (black, latino and even asian) marry outside of their race,,usually to the blonde hair trophy wife. what is it about the "buffy syndrome" that has these players marrying outside their race at a disproportionate rate than the rest of the population? most caucasion athletes have caucasion wives.

meltwithu said:

Yes.

meltwithu said:

See I have a problem with this assertion because we typically do not know that individuals dating habits before the came into the public eye. I have dated interracially since college and if I became famous people would give me shit when I have been doing it for years. The least of my dating habits has to do with the person being of a different race or being blonde because I do not care for them. I think we should take a step back for a sec and realize that everyone has the right to date who they want. Second, some people do seek out a non-black woman when they get famous, then again, sometimes they date a different type of woman because their pool of potentials has increased. I just tend to think we feel as though it only has to do with being famous or getting money and feeling as though these guys trade up for someone out of their race, when in reality it could be different. In the end it has no bearing on us so why should we care so much?
[Edited 9/26/05 14:17pm]

Actually it's a proven fact that white women hang outside locker rooms and G-8 summit meetings.

In my own hometown I see white women everywhere there is money. There is some genetic propensity in white women that allows their vaginas to sniff out money.

As for black men, I can't confirm this, but I heard that money tends to make them become more white.

Take for example OJ Simpson. Here's OJ before the Heisman trophy:





Here's OJ now:



with a gold diggen' white woman no less.

This reminds me of that Chris Rock bit:

DorothyParkerWasCool said:

well the message it sends to young minority women is that the brutha you date in high school or college is more than likely NOT gonna marry you after the big pay day. statistically, a large number of athletes come from poor to middle class surroundings, so it's unlikely they met their trophy wife in high school or from their upbringing. the message it sends to the mature minority woman is that a brutha might want to shack up with you for a minute, but when he's planning his future..you're not going to be in it.

meltwithu said:

For some reason, I don't believe you. All the other words in that paragraph contradict this one sentence.

meltwithu said:

Ok, I understand your point but you are omitting a myriad of factors. You're overlooking the fact that a large number of college educated people meet and marry someone they dated in college. So since these cats are introduced to a different world where they are finding out about themselves as young adults, like most people during that time, the likelihood increases that they will meet a potential mate from the pool they are given. Now I'm not arguing that some people do tend to marry outside the race when they get the payday, but that's not true of everybody. There are many non-white atheletes that marry inside the race but thats not as publicized so we are not cognizant about their situations. I just think we are jumping to generalizations. How about this why don't we teach non-white women to plan their own futures and not worry about marrying some ball player from high school because in all likelihood those chances are slim to none anyway. If they get that education, as so many are doing now, their pool of potentials will open as well.
[Edited 9/26/05 14:29pm]

sociopath said:

hey you fall in love with who you fall in love with...but when the numbers are THAT skewed...there's gotta be something else going on. it'as a lot easier to name 10 athletes who marry outside their race than to name 5 who did.

meltwithu said:

So what?

meltwithu said:

The interracial marriages get the attention - and usually negative. I bet the vast majority marry within their race.

sociopath said:

Being myself an mixed race child, I fail to see why race mixing is such a big deal.

But, unless I’m a complete idiot at reading the inference here I think the point behind this thread is to state that:

1) black men (and Latinos and Asians) still view white women as a social status “trophy”
2) white men don’t feel the same way about black women

I will have to take a very unpopular stance here and say, some of this is definitely true. I have lived in Asian, Europe, and here in the U.S. I’ve lived in Guam, been to Haiti (and all black country), and visited many places during my life.

Bear in mind what I’m about to say is NOT AN OPINION, and certainly NOT MY OPINION, however:
What I’ve noticed is:

1) In EVERY culture, whites are valued both in beauty and social status. This is true in countries where there is no large “white media” to feed them this propanda as it is in countries that do feed them these images.
2) In Haiti – 90 percent of the population is black. 8 percent is light skin black. And 2 percent are white. The status of being light skinned is adored there. If you are dark skinned black woman in that country forget being viewed as a example of national beauty—and this is with a population of 90% dark skinned blacks!
3) In Thailand, thai’s are so enamored by white men that women in my mom’s village, practically swoon towards them when they are in the village. Once can say it is because they like foreigners or Americans because of their social status, but this is not true. According to my mom, they don’t consider black races attractive.
4) In Japan, young hipsters and middle aged people alike are perming their eyebrows upwards to look more “western”. There is also a surgical procedure now that creates more almond “western” shaped eyes. Japanese are openly admitting they are doing it to have more western eyes, because western eyes “look more friendly”. THIS IS COMING FROM JAPANESE!!

What I think is happening in all of these cultures is simple. MOST societies have some type of correlation between social status, beauty and fair skin. Even in India, birthplace of the our lord Buddha, descriptions of his physical beauty always state that he was “fair of complexion”.

So with all these races and societies considering fair skin to be beauty symbols as well as social status, it’s natural to look at white races and understand why different culture are enamored by their appearance. A Good majority of the women I find attractive are white, even though I don’t’ discount other races. (I’m actually on an Asian woman kick right now).

Even in todays supposed more enlightened atmosphere, you have Michael Jackson. How many kids considered him a hero? How many minority or black kids? And to see him undergo such a blatant transformation due to racial shame is criminal. It sends the wrong message.

God damnit, I’m rambling now. OK. Yell at me if you’d like. I don’t care

found this online:

Thoughts on race and racism

I mentioned before that this whole discussion on racism in re: Lott has triggered my thoughts on it. It’s a topic that’s never very far from my mind, given that its drumbeat goes constantly in the background of our society. Even my hesitation about speaking my mind on it is, to me, telling about the fears we all have of being labeled racist ourselves – especially if we are white and thus ostensibly always the offender, never the victim. But can we have a debate in our society about the practical responses to the needs of all groups if we tiptoe around such a central issue?

The truth is that everyone in this society, in fact in the world, is biased about some other group. Note I said “biased about”, not “prejudiced toward”. We are as humans drawn to the familiar, people and things that represent pleasant associations, valued principles or just plain personal preferences. The need is not to stamp out bias. The need is to consciously operate in our actions in such a way that we are not letting our biases improperly guide our choices so that someone else is inappropriately harmed as a result. The “inappropriately harmed” is key – you can make the argument that when 10 people apply for a job and one gets it, the other nine are “harmed” by the fact that they did not get it. That kind of harm is a part of the push and pull of a dynamic society. The “inappropriate” happens when the choice is based on considerations other than merit in regards to the job’s tasks, and the “fit” of the person’s work habits to the job. (For example, no matter how great a writer I am, I would never be a good fit for a position that required I be bang on time every day. I’m not wired that way. I will be late. I would not work well in a position where that is a problem. So while I’m harmed by not getting the job, it’s the right thing for the hiring company to bypass me.)

So how does this bias manifest itself? Well, note that while interracial dating and marriage is more broadly accepted and done these days, dating and marrying within your own racial group is still the norm – for whites, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, whomever you want to look at. Is this a problem? I don’t think so. Marriages are strongest when you have a wide variety of cultural and value connections, and most people still find that connection in people with their same racial history. I do think that fact is in part a result of either deliberate or cultural segregation, but as the races come together more in daily interaction that will change. Is that a problem? No. It’s the natural flow of things. The younger generations now have much less race consciousness than their parents, and much less than their grandparents. And they will have more than their children. As this consciousness diminishes, more and more people will find they share sufficient cultural and value touch points to make good marriages where race really isn’t a concern. But that time can’t come as robustly as possible as long as we’re forced to consider race as a salient aspect of someone’s value.

I think we’re at a tipping point of sorts. The people who lived through the avid racism and segregationist policies of the past are coming to the end of their public lives. We really are becoming less racist over all. But there are people who have made their careers out of finding racism in every corner, and whose careers would be over if in fact we did “just all get along”. Unfortunately many of these folks have made “white” a required part of the definition of racism, as in you have to be white for your prejudice against another race to be racism. The truth is, racism in this society will not go away until everyone hates it just as much, regardless of whom it is directed against. It also won’t end until we stop conflating “bias” with “prejudice”.

Reader Dave Mecklenberg sent me a link to a column by a black columnist in the Chicago Sun-Times; I read it this morning but apparently it was at the end of its month of availability because it’s gone now. At any rate, it was published on November 21, if you’re interested in tracking it down; the title is "A White Woman, MJ? How Could You Do It?" The premise of the article is that Michael Jordan disappointed all black women by cheating on his wife with a white woman. Not just adultery, but adultery with a white woman, was a slap in the face of all black women. I asked a black co-worker of mine once what she would think if one of her two sons dated a white woman. She said, and this is a direct quote, “I’d ask him, what’s wrong with all the black girls?” Does that make you angry? Try it this way – what if I had a son dating a black woman, and I asked him, “What’s wrong with all the white girls?” Would that do it for you? Until both of those are equally distressing, we’re not where we need to be. (And a quick note: I don't think it will ever be a bad thing to prefer to marry within your own race. It's a bad thing if you hold it against someone else if they marry outside it.)

I think my generation was the one that bridged the years between the bad old days and the modern world of miscegenation at will and with all good cheer. I know there were no black children – or Hispanic, Asian, Muslim (not even Catholic) – in my elementary school. I remember distinctly thinking, as I was going to high school, that I would find a nice black girl and be her friend because I didn’t want to be racist. That memory makes me shake my head now, but it shows my heart was in the right place. It was a transition time, and if we can shut up the race baiters of all ethnicities, the transition will be complete sooner rather than later. The extent to which we kowtow to the likes of Al Sharpton, Maxine Waters and Bill Clinton is the extent to which race will continue to be a hot point for our society. Yes, Trent Lott and Strom Thurmond are a sign of a time we wish were gone. But so are all the racists of today, whatever color they are.

UPDATE: Dave found the article here; I'm reproducing it in its entirety in the MORE section. Also, here is a follow-up column that has a lot of emails sent to the columnist - Mary Mitchell - after the piece appeared.



A white woman, MJ? How could you do it?
BY MARY MITCHELL SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

Black women forgive almost anything. Indeed, church ladies were among the Rev. Jesse Jackson's most vocal supporters when his baby mama's drama was exposed a couple of years ago. Karin Sanford, the baby's mama, was called everything but a child of God when she went on TV and discussed the details
of her love affair with the married minister. And when R. Kelly was indicted on child pornography charges, a group of black women dragged their own daughters down to 26th and California to cheer on a man who is accused of
filming himself having sex and urinating on an underage black girl.

But Michael Jordan is in trouble.

Nothing turns most black women off more than a rich black man who marries a poor white woman, or a rich black man who marries a black woman and sleeps around with white women.
Jordan was our hero.

At a time when it seems that the first thing a black athlete did when he hit the big time was to marry a white woman, Jordan married Juanita and made her a part of the Jordan dynasty. That meant a lot to black women who, frankly, were tired of watching wealthy black athletes parading white women. On Tuesday, while WGCI's "Crazy" Howard McGee and NBC-Channel 5 anchor Art
Norman were railing against the attack on Michael Jordan by Karla Knafel, black women were likely thinking: That's what Jordan gets for sleeping with a white woman.
Sounds bitter, I know.

But it's true.

When I asked a black co-worker what shocked her most about the Jordan sex
scandal, her eyes widened and she whispered what a lot of black women have been saying since Jordan filed suit against his former paramour.

"She's a white woman," the co-worker said. "How could he do that to Juanita?"

Worse yet, Jordan admitted that he paid Knafel $250,000 to keep silent about the affair. Now, maybe he would have paid a black lover the same amount, but I doubt it. In fact, I'm willing to bet the only thing a black woman would have gotten under these circumstances was a "too bad" and free tickets to Bulls games.

It is no secret that there are a lot of black women who have slept with and have
had babies fathered by multimillionaire athletes. These women didn't even get a marriage license. All they got out of the affair was court-ordered child support--and most of them had to drag themselves and their babies into court to get it.Knafel, who behaved like a strumpet, got paid the big bucks for "mental anguish"
or for "not going public" with the affair, depending on which lawyer is doing the talking. Talk about white privilege. Not only did Knafel expect to be paid for doing the decent thing--that is, not bragging about having sex with a married man--but she expects to pick up an additional $5 million for keeping quiet about getting pregnant, even though the baby wasn't fathered by Jordan. If the affair happened the way Knafel claims it did, she has a heck of a lot of nerve for a woman who laid up with someone else's husband.

I think Jordan has a lot of nerve, as well. Rather than accept the fact that he
messed with the wrong bimbo and spare his family and the rest of us the details, he is putting his infidelity on public display.

"I really do question whether Jordan's lawsuit was a good strategy," said James
H. Feldman, a partner at Jenner & Block and one of the top domestic relations attorneys in the city. "It doesn't make any sense. I am sure this woman feels very wronged, but usually this kind of thing is approached on a more reasonable basis. This is just silliness. You have to consider what this does to his standing in this community to be involved in such a public display.''

Too bad Juanita Jordan can't do in Illinois what Margaret McCarthy did in
Seattle. When her wealthy husband died, his lover tried to get her hands on a watch, ring and $200,000 she said he had promised her. According to a segment that aired on "Good Morning America" this week, the wife turned the tables and sued Kathie O'Keefe, who acknowledged having a 20-year affair with the married man.

Under Washington state laws, one spouse cannot gift community property to an
individual without the consent of the other spouse. O'Keefe was ordered to account for all the gifts and money McCarthy's husband had ever given her and to pay it back in cash. Unfortunately, the boys in Springfield have made it difficult for wives in Illinois to do the same. The state's "Alienation of Affections Act," in effect since 1948, was changed in 1990 to make it virtually impossible for a wife to sue the girlfriend for husband tampering. Instead of Michael Jordan suing, Juanita Jordan should be the one in court suing to get back the $250,000. That's a case worth rallying behind.

Black women forgive almost anything. But this Jordan/Knafel brawl is tearing into some very deep wounds.


One thing I will agree with here - Knafel behaved like a strumpet. Only that's probably not the word I'd use.

[quote][quote]
[Edited 9/26/05 14:49pm]

wrong forum.

i wanna be a fuckin' trophy wife...







and Imago777...good post.

I regret reading this thread! Live and let live and I am certain your statistical figures (since I have hung on that scene are skewed and untrue!) The majority of football and basketball stars I have associated with through their BLACK wives..... would be offended.


Whatever happened to "Bombing for Peace" is like "Fucking For Virginity"
.
[Edited 9/26/05 14:55pm]

DorothyParkerWasCool said:

who said this was scientific? just an observation

Rhondab said:

You're serious?


not just building me up to break me down emotionally?

meltwithu said:

But I'm making a point. I just get tired of all the generalizations and inaccurate assumptions that are based solely on what we observe. Sometimes we misinterpret the small instances we observe as widespread when in fact they are not. It's like turning on the nightly news for an accurate depiction of crime, will more often than not lead one to the wrong answers.

Muse2NOPharaoh said:

Then maybe the question is why don't we see these relationships (same race) vs seeing the interracial relationships? I'm just asking a question to forward the convo.

Its interesting that some actually applaud Denzel (I know he's not an athlete but he was the first to come to mind) for still being with is black, DARK SKINNED, wife as if that is a rarity.

It is a known fact that the least married are black women and asian men....what's wrong with us?

Imago777 said:

i'll smack ya around lata.. .no really...good post!!!

Imago777 said:

the rest of your post throws some variables in there I'm not sure how to equate with what I'm gonna say. But what I encounter with this phenomenon is a kind of retrobution thought process... vs. that white slave owner ages ago that wasn't to kind to your kind; one is dating/fucking a white chick to take what he swore was his and would've never let U have it things hadn't changed.


as for white chicks...I think it's half money...but they ALSO wanna piss of their pappa's...

that said... the above are mitigating factors I believe, but I'm sure MUCH of it is just people falling in love with who they fell in love with regardless of skin color or rhyme or reason.
[Edited 9/26/05 15:13pm]

Imago777 said:

IMO, the best post in this thread. Your two points are (sadly) right on. (In any society), the darker you are, the more hell you'll catch. That's reality, but some don't want to hear it.

As for dating, my preference is women of color(black, latino, asian, indian). I don't chase white tail(like O.J.), but if a white woman was interested in me, that'd be cool.

My thing is, date whoever you want, just make sure it's for the right reasons.

BobGeorge909 said:

That is the most blatantly racist and ignorant and FAR from what I would have expected from you remark that I can think of!

My gawd.. if stupid was a school... tha majority of ya'll would be the principal

TheRealFiness said:

Excuse me MR PERFECT!!!!