Tom said:

I'm not sure if my remarks are part of what you're addressing here but do tell - when is ones concern for ones health real & when is it just sugar coating? What determines that?

CalhounSq said:

Say like your gym teacher or your doctor pulled you aside and offered some suggestions or advice to you, thats one thing. But I've been at get togethers with coworkers where they would single someone out in front of everyone and make a comment like "Honey you need to lay of the BK, you're busting out of those jeans...that's not good for you! You need to jump on a treadmill or something", where it's really nothing more than a jab at that person.

meow85 said:

i can totally see what you are saying. theres a problem that women cant just be women, no matter what they look like i believe that we are all made to look differently... not one of us is the same shape, size, and color.... differences should be celebrated, not looked at as 'the enemy'. the problem comes up in issues like this i think because 'thinner' women have always been put in different light because that is looked at more as the 'norm' or more beautiful

now larger shaped women are stepping up saying, hey, we can do it too...

i still dont believe one is better than the other. but, the day a woman who has more curves can strut her stuff on the model runways is a welcome day for lots of women everywhere ! i dont think its the 'enemy' tone youre hearing in those messages, i think its the tone of well, finally we are up here doing our thing, we dont have to put on clothes to hide behind, we dont have to sit in the shadows, we dont have to pretend we are dieting and working so hard to become thin to be accepted.... we just are who we are and thats that

its a positive thing i think.... for everyone

I also reject this notion that anyone who is not obese cant possibly know what it takes for an obese person to meet their goals. That is just ridiculous!

Anyway, I highly recomend this book by Dr. Ian Smith.


http://www.iansmithbooks....ction2.asp

meow85 said:

I can tell you that many people cover up their hatred of fat people by lingering on the "health" issue saying fat people shouldn't be content in their overweight-ness (is that a word?). They don't give a damn about the health of overweight people, they just don't like fat people, that's all.
and yeah, perhaps Monique's "skinny women are evil" line is a little immature, but she IS a comedienne after all, it's supposed to be funny. Sometimes you have to be radical in order to change things.
If people knew how to treat each other with respect regardless of their body size, then insecurity wouldn't even be an issue.

nakedpianoplayer said:

Exactly. They need to just mind their fuckin' business.

CreamyThighs said:

Cut the shit.

My mom only weighs 180 lbs -which is not huge by any means, and her weight has caused her to develope diabetes. Of course I'm concerned, and it has nothing to do with some hatred of the fact that she shops in the plus size section. I will not mind my fucking business, thank you very much.

Be big and happy, that's great. But if it can kill you, quit making excuses and do something about it.

dreamfactory313 said:

depression and low self esteem is a disease also. And let me tell you something...you do NOT have the right to try to REFUSE fat people the right to feel good about themselves, no matter WHAT they're eating, no matter WHAT kind of exercises they are or are not doing. Because the bottom line is, until you feel good about yourself WHERE YOU ARE....you'll never change for the better. Even if a fat person NEVER changes his diet, that person STILL has the God given right to feel good about themselves...PERIOD. Who are you to judge what a person eats? All the healthy eating and exercise in the WORLD will NEVER change that persons insides until they first learn to LIKE and ACCEPT themselves AS THEY ARE...PERIOD. For TOO LONG, fat people have LISTENED to people like YOU who are basically saying that they dont deserve the right to feel good about themselves, just because they dont eat right or exercise or whatever. (That's where the depression and low self esteem comes from) Well I got a news flash for you; nobody's perfect. But even in our flaws and imperfections, we can STILL feel accepted and loved. How would you like it if someone withheld acceptance from you because of one of your many flaws?
That's what Monique's show is all about. ACCEPTING yourself as you are, no matter WHAT your size is. And I give her props for that. And FURTHERMORE...skinny doesn't always = healthy either. You look at a skinny person and assume they're healthy because they LOOK skinny, and that's bullshit.
[Edited 8/6/05 19:26pm]
[Edited 8/6/05 19:28pm]

You people are still missing the point. Dreamfactory, U said leave my emotions out of it? Well guess what, obesity IS an emotional problem, as well as a physical problem. Losing weight is the key to self esteem? HOney, you could not be MORE wrong about that. First of all, I am NOT against educating people how to eat better and exercise, that is NOT what I'm saying. But I AM saying, that if all you do to combat the obesity problem in this country is to try reach people's HEADS, instead of their HEARTS...you'll miss the mark. That's why diets a lot of times, don't work. Overweight people who eat because they dont like themselves, go on diets and expect it to work, and it doesn't. AND...even if they DO lose the weight, they're going to gain it back. Why? BECAUSE THEY STILL DON'T LIKE THEMSELVES. They changed their outsides...but not their insides...and that has to start in the mind. You have to change your thinking about yourself, YOU HAVE TO LIKE YOURSELF AS YOU ARE. Once you change your thinking about yourself, start to accept yourself, begin to FORGIVE YOURSELF for all the binge eating that you've done, THEN and ONLY THEN can you gain the "respect" you keep talking about to WANT to make yourself healthier. You keep saying that fat people should respect themselves, and lose weight, but you're continually missing the point that the respect comes from WITHIN YOU, first and foremost. It comes from ACCEPTING YOURSELF as you are, flaws and all, and that includes flaws in eating. I've heard true stories of overweight people who have TAKEN THEIR OWN LIVES because of all the SHAME and self hatred and GUILT that was put on them by other people that TORMENTED them for years.
A lot of people are assuming that overweight people don't WANT to lose weight, that they just want to "stay fat" or whatever. And the truth is, you can NOT possibly know what all the overweight people in this country are thinking, so you CANNOT and SHOULD NOT accuse them of something you think THEY'RE thinking.
You can't SHAME and GUILT trip fat people into losing weight, and think that's gonna work, cuz it ISN'T.

So to answer your question, is Monique promoting obesity with her show? NO. She's promoting SELF ACCEPTANCE.
[Edited 8/7/05 16:27pm]
[Edited 8/7/05 16:29pm]

CreamyThighs said:

This can be true but PLEASE know that some people are sincere in their concern. I have 2 morbidly obese people in my family (& many others who are fat but not obese... I guess ). I want to see them get healthy & LIVE - the diabetes/fast food lifestyle has got to stop!

I know losing weight is one of the hardest things to do but for a lot of people it's a decision & dedication to live a different life & many folks just don't wanna face that, they ain't ready. They just go on doing the same shit & making excuses, letting an inanimate object like food get in the way of their will. It becomes a spiral that (pardon the term) feeds itself (the weight, the depression, feeling bad physically & mentally, eating makes you feel better for the moment then you're right back where you started)...

I dunno, I just don't wanna see the people I love die because of too many trips to the drivethrough. And then children get brought up in this fast food culture, never even learing how to eat properly & are fucked up for life. Being a teen is hard enough - what's it like when you're obese on top of all that? For me it's not even about the look of the person on the outside but the feelings of the person on the inside that's trapped in a body & feels like they don't have a choice & just give up. A cousin of mine is like that, too young to have to deal w/ this shit. It's just fucked up man...

meow85 said:

That's pretty angry.



But I do agree. There is no such thing as a large "overweight" or obese person that is "perfectly fine" when it comes to health.

But I don't think fat people are lazy, so much as they are overwhelmed. It's like bing at work and haveing 20 things to do, then 30, then 40--eventually your desk is a mess and nothing gets done despite your best intentions. Fat people are like this to me--some of them have so much weight to lose that it can become very difficult to lose weight.

I think society needs to stop mistreating them, but definately we should NOT be saying "it's ok to be your weight" becuase it's not. WOrk places , schools, churches, you name it--need to come up with strategies in helping out.

MOST PEOPLE have the potential of becoming fat. I was 25+ pounds over my ideal weight for 3 years and finally realized what was happenning. I managed to lose it in about 2 years (yes it was slow and painful), but it is ABSOLUTELY important that people try.

Again, I don't mean to offend anyone. I use the word "Fat" becuase that is what it is. Until I was able to call myself "Fat" I was just "making up excuses". It's hard for people to believe that I was once overweight as during that 3 years, there are no photos that I possess of me (I wish I had kept some) becuase of shame.

But again, it is absolutely necessary and possible that ANYONE lose weight. And they not only can, they very well should.



.
[Edited 8/7/05 20:09pm]

My two youngest cousins are being brought up like that. All they've ever been fed is fast food and the biggest slabs of meat I've ever seen. At two, the older one could finish an entire Whopper, plus a large fries from Burger King by herself. The youngest one used to be given bowls of peas at dinner not to eat but to play with. They closest thing they ever eat to veggies is potatoes, usually fried.

They're 9 and 4 years old now, and normal heights for their ages. The 9 year old weighs over 150 lbs, and the 4 year old is over 100, and both are at risk for developing type 2 diabetes. There is no way this can be healthy. It's so sad to see how sick they get -forever catching colds and flus.

[Edited 8/7/05 20:29pm]

meow85 said:

I truly feel for those kids. Have you tried talking some sense to the parents? To me, that's child abuse, feeding kids all that greasy sh!t.

CalhounSq said:

My two youngest cousins are being brought up like that. All they've ever been fed is fast food and the biggest slabs of meat I've ever seen. At two, the older one could finish an entire Whopper, plus a large fries from Burger King by herself. The youngest one used to be given bowls of peas at dinner not to eat but to play with. They closest thing they ever eat to veggies is potatoes, usually fried.

They're 9 and 4 years old now, and normal heights for their ages. The 9 year old weighs over 150 lbs, and the 4 year old is over 100, and both are at risk for developing type 2 diabetes. There is no way this can be healthy. It's so sad to see how sick they get -forever catching colds and flus.

uPtoWnNY said:

My aunt and uncle are seperated, so my uncle lives in another city than his kids do. Several family members have tried talking to my aunt about her and her kids' eating habits (she eats the same way and is also overweight) but she won't listen. Sh insists that there's nothing wrong with their sizes, and despite numerous doctors telling her how sick she and her kids already are, and how much worse they will get, she refuses to believe them, insisting that they're just "naturally big".

dreamfactory313 said:

If the good doctor looks like this in real life, I'm buying the book just becuase of that.

meow85 said:

My cousin was the same way - by the time she was 6 she could eat an entire adult size burrito with no problem (even I couldn't finish mine & I was twenty something @ the time) Her mom didn't try to do anything to discourage it (at a certain point I think a person should just drink water if they don't feel full enough instead of continuing to eat & eat) & now her eating is totally out of control. 15 years old, never active, literally sits around & eats all the time (bad food, too) & is close to 400 lbs

It's odd because as the "skinny cousin" I've been told I'm not supposed to say anything to anyone in the family about weight PERIOD - but what do you do? Watch someone kill themselves? Continue to be robbed (in a lot of ways) of her childhood/teen years? She can't possibly live long @ this rate, I think she's already given up & thinks it's hopeless. I know it's not her fault b/c she just wasn't taught properly - her mother is to blame BUT she still gets saddled with doing all the work to change her life as she knows it - is she equipped to undo years of damage? How do you show someone (that doesn't live w/ you, doesn't come around, etc.) there's a different way to eat/live?

Tom said:

And do you know why they never complimented you? You already know why...cuz they didn't give a DAMN about your health, or nothing else...they thought u were an easy target cuz u were overweight..
Today, the bullies have "health concerns" they can hide behind now, giving them further justification to insult overweight people.

CalhounSq said:

This reminds me of when they have those children on the Maury Povich show. They are obese and usually dont have a shirt on. Theyve got huge plates of food on the set and the parents are yelling, "There aint nothing wrong with my baby! My baby is gonna eat!" Its unreal how ignorant these parents are.

My running partner has three children. She's a "big girl" like me. And her children are incredibly healthy and is very protective of their self perception. They eat extremely healthy and the kids are in great health. Not a lot of fast food/junk food enters their house. She's so careful because the crap that we came up on put us where we are now. I guess we're the generation that's trying to stop the "cycle". She's setting a good example, physically fit and eating healthy, it trickles down to the kids.

Recently in the news they said putting sugar in your coffee or tea
is good for dieting because you'll eat less 'cause you'll feel fuller sooner ,
really
(i thought it was strange too)

If I ate the same diet and did the same amount of physical activity of many of my skinnier friends, I would blow up like a balloon. The bottom line is I have to be much more careful about what I eat, and do additional exercise throughout the week to maintain my weight.

I get really pissed when I hear people make these broad sweeping generalizations of all overweight people, that they are lazy, unmotivated, and don't care about themselves. Many people simply have a hard time keeping their bodies at a healthy weight, in spite of their ongoing efforts.

Im amazed at how many people try to sugar coat their insults about other people's weight by citing health concerns. They can care less about someone's health and well being until they see someone put on some weight, then they want to play doctor.

We're all very much aware that diet and exercise help combat obesity. That fast food is bad. Etc. We hear about it 24 hours a day. Someone who is overweight is already aware of it, they look at themselves in the mirror each day - so there's no need to go up to them and say "hey, you're fat! you should go on a diet and exercise!".

My blood boils when I see people stand on a soapbox and make ignorant remarks towards overweight people, then pat themselves on the back as though they are curing obesity one person at a time with their tough-love comments. That's complete bullshit. All they are doing is rubbing salt in someone's wound, and more than anything, making the problem worse.

If you're really concerned about a family or friend who is overweight, chill out with the flippant remarks.

I don't think this is 'promoting' morbid obesity. I doubt there will be teenage girls all across america thinking, 'gosh, I wanna be just like them. I better get myself a tub of fried, fat-soaked whatever fast.' It's just a beauty pagent with a different flavor.
While I understand the need to validate the worth of women of all shapes and sizes, in a way it just feeds more into our looks-obsessed culture. Fat is beautiful, thin is beautiful, blond is beautiful, black is beautiful... Until we learn as a society to look past the facade that is 'outer beauty' we're doomed to be bored to death by new and even more annoying beauty pagents.