Janfriend said:

YO, as a former owner of a piece of s**t H. Packard. DO NOT BUY AN HP. Also, do not get a Compaq. Those are the worst PCs you could ever buy.

If you want a great PC, TRUST ME ON THIS BECAUSE I DID MY HOMEWORK. Go with Dell, Gateway or Sony. That's it. Do not go cheap when it comes to PCs.

Compaq and HP are the equivalent of those cheap a** AIWA stereos that break down in 8 months.

JANFAN4L said:

Dell's tech support sucks. I've heard that from a lot of people. My brother-in-law was transferred from Dell tech support to another number which happened to be a pizza place....which is kinda funny, but insulting at the same time.

TMPletz said:

Oh, I'm not addressing their support, but the actual hardware itself. I know Dell is known for their s****y customer service, but they make good machines. Gateways and Sonys are better. Dell is third in line, though. Still recommend Dell over HP and Compaq to anyone, any day.

JANFAN4L said:

Yeah, I used to have an HP. Then it broke down and they gave me a new one. Then that one broke down and they gave me another new one. I thought of it as free upgrades.

TMPletz said:

we have used the tech suport 2 times ( in 6 yrs ) and they were wonderful

TMPletz said:

Always the best option.

TMPletz said:

Tell me about it. Also, my expereince with Gateway or Shitway as I call it wasn't any better b/c the fucker kept freezing up on me. So now, I have a HP w/Hyperthreading and so far all is well.

TMPletz said:

All Of Us Org Sci-Fi s Wish We Could Have This .

Compaq and Dell are both good.

Compaq's have never failed me. A home Dell will be fine as well.

JANFAN4L said:

I have a Gateway right now. I checked out their site

Here's what I need:
If you have a T&L capable video card with at least 32 MB of video RAM then you need at least:
800 MHz processor or better
256 MB RAM if Windows XP, Windows ME, Windows 98 or Windows 2000
At least 3.5 GB of hard drive space
If you have a non-T&L capable video card (an Intel Extreme Graphics or a Radeon 7000/VE Series) then you need at least:
2.0 GHz processor or better
256 MB RAM if Windows XP, Windows ME, Windows 98, or Windows 2000
At least 3.5 GB of hard drive space
Get the most current driver for your video card. The manufacturers usually have the video drivers on their sites for you to download. Visit the nVidia site, the ATI site or the support site for your computer's manufacturer for the latest drivers for those video cards.

Supported video cards (and the more video memory the better):

ATI RadeonTM series (7000 or better)
Radeon 7000/VE series (non-T&L; requires 2.0 GHz processor)
7200, 7500
8500, All-In-Wonder 8500
9000, 9200, 9500, 9600, 9700, 9800
X300, X600, X800


Nvidia® QuadroTM series
Quadro, Quadro2, Quadro4


Nvidia® Geforce series (GeForce2 and better)
GeForce2
GeForce3, 3 Ti
GeForce4, 4Ti, MX 420, 440
GeForce FX 5200, 5600, 5700, 5800, 5900, 5950
GeForce 6600, 6800


Intel® Extreme Graphics (non-T&L; requires 2.0 GHz processor)
82845, 82865, 82915

WHAT IS T&L?

Here's what I can get through Gateway:
System Name: Gateway 5310S
Unit Price:* $599.99
Configured Price:* $769.96
Quantity: 1
Sub Total: $769.96
*Prices do not include shipping and handling and any applicable (taxes).
System Details:
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional (SP2) w/ XP Pro Backup CD .....[ +US$79.99]SFW
Application Software: Microsoft® Works Suite 2005 - including Microsoft® Word and Encarta .....[ +US$39.99]SFW
Processor: Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 515 (2.93 GHz, 533MHz FSB, 1MB L2 cache)
Memory: 512MB PC3200 400MHz DDR SDRAM (2-256MB modules)
Hard Drive: 80GB Serial ATA100 7200rpm hard drive w/ 2MB cache
Optical Drive: 48x/32x/48x CD-RW/DVD combo drive
Floppy Drive: 8-in-1 media card reader
Extended Service Plan Including Limited Warranty: Desktop Value Service Plan -- 2 year parts/labor/no on-site/2 year toll technical support .....[ +US$99.99]WRN
Monitors: Monitor not selected .....[ -US$50.00]HDW
Keyboard and Mouse: Gateway Basic 104+ Keyboard and Two-button PS/2 Wheel Mouse (no mouse pad included)
Surge Protector: Not Selected
AntiVirus Software: Norton Internet Security 90 day introductory offer
Chipset: Intel® 915GV Chipset
Case: Gateway 6-Bay Mid-Tower Case
Expansion Slots: 2 x PCI Expansion Slots (1 slot available)
External Ports: (6) USB 2.0 (4 in back, 2 in front), (1) IEEE 1394 Firewire Port, Audio ports, Parallel, Serial, and (2) PS/2
Certification: Energy Star Compliant
Video: Integrated Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 900 with up to 224MB shared DDR memory
Sound System: Integrated Intel® 5.1 High Definition audio
Speakers: 2-piece speaker solution
Modem: 56K PCI data/fax modem
Network Adapter: Integrated Intel® Pro 10/100 Ethernet Adapter
Internet Service Provider: Six months America Online® Internet access
Part Number: 1008368
Additional Software: Adobe® Acrobat Reader® 6.0, McAfee AntiSpyware 30 day introductory offer and Google Toolbar

System Name: Canon iP1600 Photo Printer (free after $50 in mail-in rebates) (6620473)
Unit Price:* $49.99
Configured Price:* $49.99
Quantity: 1
Sub Total: $49.99
*Prices do not include shipping and handling and any applicable (taxes).
System Details:
Item Number: 6620473

System Name: Belkin 10ft. USB Printer Cable (6600783)
Unit Price:* $19.99
Configured Price:* $19.99
Quantity: 1
Sub Total: $19.99
*Prices do not include shipping and handling and any applicable (taxes).
System Details:
Item Number: 6600783

System Name: Norton AntiVirus 2005 (6616671)
Unit Price:* $49.99
Configured Price:* $49.99
Quantity: 1
Sub Total: $49.99
*Prices do not include shipping and handling and any applicable (taxes).

OR
System Name: Gateway 3310S
Unit Price:* $399.99
Configured Price:* $498.97
Quantity: 1
Sub Total: $498.97
*Prices do not include shipping and handling and any applicable (taxes).
System Details:
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home (SP2) w/ XP Home Backup CD
Application Software: Microsoft® Works Suite 2005 - including Microsoft® Word and Encarta .....[ +US$39.99]SFW
Processor: Intel® Celeron® D Processor 335 (2.80GHz, 533MHz FSB, 256K L2 cache)
Memory: 512MB PC3200 400MHz DDR SDRAM (2-256MB modules) .....[ +US$49.00]HDW
Hard Drive: 80GB Ultra ATA100 7200rpm hard drive
Optical Drive: 48x/32x/48x CD-RW
Floppy Drive: Floppy drive not selected
Extended Service Plan Including Limited Warranty: Desktop Value Service Plan -- 1 year parts/labor/no on-site/1 year toll technical support .....[ +US$59.99]WRN
Monitors: Monitor not selected .....[ -US$50.00]HDW
Keyboard and Mouse: Gateway Basic 104+ Keyboard and Two-button PS/2 Wheel Mouse (no mouse pad included)
Speakers: 2-piece speaker solution
Surge Protector: Not Selected
AntiVirus Software: Norton Internet Security 90 day introductory offer
Chipset: Intel® 865GV Chipset
Case: Gateway 6-Bay Mid-Tower Case
Expansion Slots: 3 x PCI Expansion Slots (2 slots available)
External Ports: (4) USB 2.0 (All 4 are rear ports), Audio ports, Parallel, Serial, and (2) PS/2
Certification: Energy Star Compliant
Video: Integrated Intel® Extreme Graphics 2 with up to 64MB shared DDR memory
Sound System: Integrated Intel® High Definition audio
Modem: 56K PCI data/fax modem
Network Adapter: Integrated Intel® Pro 10/100 Ethernet Adapter
Internet Service Provider: Six months America Online® Internet access
Part Number: 1008367
Additional Software: Adobe® Acrobat Reader® 6.0, McAfee AntiSpyware 30 day introductory offer and Google Toolbar

System Name: Canon iP1600 Photo Printer (free after $50 in mail-in rebates) (6620473)
Unit Price:* $49.99
Configured Price:* $49.99
Quantity: 1
Sub Total: $49.99
*Prices do not include shipping and handling and any applicable (taxes).
System Details:
Item Number: 6620473

System Name: Belkin 10ft. USB Printer Cable (6600783)
Unit Price:* $19.99
Configured Price:* $19.99
Quantity: 1
Sub Total: $19.99
*Prices do not include shipping and handling and any applicable (taxes).
System Details:
Item Number: 6600783

System Name: Norton AntiVirus 2005 (6616671)
Unit Price:* $49.99
Configured Price:* $49.99
Quantity: 1
Sub Total: $49.99
*Prices do not include shipping and handling and any applicable (taxes).

OR
System Name: Gateway 7310S
Unit Price:* $699.99
Configured Price:* $974.96
Quantity: 1
Sub Total: $974.96
*Prices do not include shipping and handling and any applicable (taxes).
System Details:
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional (SP2) w/ XP Pro Backup CD .....[ +US$79.99]SFW
Application Software: Microsoft® Works Suite 2005 - including Microsoft® Word and Encarta .....[ +US$39.99]SFW
Processor: Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 520J with HT Technology (2.80GHz, 800MHz FSB, 1MB L2 cache)
Memory: 512MB PC3200 400MHz DDR SDRAM (2-256MB modules)
Hard Drive: 80GB 7200RPM Serial ATA Hard Drive w/ 2MB Cache
Optical Drive: 48x/32x/48x CD-RW/DVD combo drive
Floppy Drive: 8-in-1 media card reader
Extended Service Plan Including Limited Warranty: Desktop Value Service Plan -- 3 year parts/labor/no on-site/3 year toll technical support .....[ +US$139.99]WRN
Monitors: Monitor not selected .....[ -US$50.00]HDW
Video: NVIDIA GeForce 6200 with TurboCache supporting 128MB, VGA & TV-Out .....[ +US$65.00]HDW
Keyboard and Mouse: Gateway Premium Multimedia 104+ Keyboard and Two-button PS/2 Wheel Mouse (no mouse pad included)
Sound System: Integrated Intel® 5.1 High Definition audio
Speakers: 2-piece speaker solution
Multifunction: Not Selected
Surge Protector: Not Selected
AntiVirus Software: Norton Internet Security 90 day introductory offer
Chipset: Intel® 915G Chipset
Case: Gateway 6-Bay Mid-Tower Case
Controller: Integrated Ultra ATA Controller
Expansion Slots: (1) PCI-E x16 Expansion Slot, (1) PCI-E x1, (2) PCI in which 1 is available for use
External Ports: (7) USB 2.0 (4 in back, 2 in front and 1in the media reader), (1) IEEE 1394 Firewire Port, Audio ports, Parallel, Serial, and (2) PS/2
Certification: Energy Star Compliant
Modem: 56K PCI data/fax modem
Network Adapter: Integrated Intel® Pro 10/100 Ethernet Adapter
Internet Service Provider: Six months America Online® Internet access
Part Number: 1008379
Additional Software: Adobe® Acrobat Reader® 6.0, McAfee AntiSpyware 30 day introductory offer and Google Toolbar
PCI Adapter: IEEE 1394 (FireWire) PCI Card

System Name: Canon iP1600 Photo Printer (free after $50 in mail-in rebates) (6620473)
Unit Price:* $49.99
Configured Price:* $49.99
Quantity: 1
Sub Total: $49.99
*Prices do not include shipping and handling and any applicable (taxes).
System Details:
Item Number: 6620473

System Name: Belkin 10ft. USB Printer Cable (6600783)
Unit Price:* $19.99
Configured Price:* $19.99
Quantity: 1
Sub Total: $19.99
*Prices do not include shipping and handling and any applicable (taxes).
System Details:
Item Number: 6600783

System Name: Norton AntiVirus 2005 (6616671)
Unit Price:* $49.99
Configured Price:* $49.99
Quantity: 1
Sub Total: $49.99
*Prices do not include shipping and handling and any applicable (taxes).


Which one do you think is the best for the price?

I've had a Dell, and I killed that far too easily, not much of a foe.

I have a Compaq/HP now and love it, so from personal experience I'd go with that.

Never have had a Gateway, computer that is.

I can see other dimensions. It's called the outside world.

Nice place really, bring your own water.

TMPletz said:

I hate it, too. Absolutely terrible. They gave me a free printer when I bought the PC but it wasn't compatible and refused to work. THEN they refused to help me. I was shuttled back and forth between Dell and Epson for 6 months. I have since learned to ask my boyfriend to help me out.

I've also heard that Dell has relaxed on the outsourcing and is bringing tech support back to the US because of all of the complaints.

Dell's support has been a mixed bag for me. Any time something has broken on any of their systems, they have a replacement part at my door in like 2 days. But calling them on the phone can be a nightmare for two reasons - their phone system is a ridiculous maze, you will constantly be put on hold then transfered from one department to another, only to find out you spent 45 minutes going to the wrong section, and you have to start over. Also, they are still outsourcing their calls to India. They've recieved many complaints about this, and I think at one point they were going back to US operators, but the last few times I called, the operators accent was so thick, I could barely communicate with them.

I think, therefore IBM.

Actually, I have a Gateway which is pretty solid. It's been used and abused, ocasionally dropped, had components removed and inserted ad naseum, and it's still working perfectly.

Software is a different matter though - I've had to rebuild my hard drive several times due to an unbelievably stupid and inefficient operating system. Thank you, Microsoft.

Is any one make more robust than another though? Components fail, fact of life, so I'd just go for whichever seems the best value (probably Dell), forget about the fact that product support actually exists, and when somethnig goes wrong learn how to fix it myself.

Janfriend said:

Short for Transform and Lighting, T&L is a type of video technology that takes all the 3D information that used to be handled by the computer processor and gives it to the GPU. This enables for a more complex 3D environment by adding a higher polygon count and improving the lighting at the same time it allows the computer processor to handle other tasks.

If you want information on buying tips on video cards, go here http://www.computerhope.c.../tandl.htm

Considering your choices. I'd go with the Gateway 5310S or the 7310S, they seem to have the most features (esp. that DVD drive, too bad it's not a DVD-RW drive).

MsLegs said:

(looks like sometimes the picture works, sometimes it doesn't)
[Edited 7/29/05 16:47pm]

AsylumUtopia said:

That's what I've been doing with my current PC (pre-compaq HP Pavillion) Little by little, it's turning into a home built. It's been pretty educational, I've been learning as I go. Eventually I'm gonna build my own completely from the mobo up, but for now I'm just playing with the PC I currently own.

TMPletz said:

I had to use Dell tech support twice...at about midnight...and I was satisfied. They weren't the quickest, but in the end they guided me to doing what I had to (I'm not very PC-savy) and even sent me a replacement modem EVEN THOUGH it became apparent that it had been fried due to lightning and wasn't covered under warranty.

BTW - is it true that Dell's tech support is outsourced to India?

If you must go with a PC, I'd say Dell. It's frequently the choice of entities that have to buy a lot of computers (e.g., my alma mater, Indiana University, which buys thousands of computers annually and replaces them when they hit three years old). And yes, they're running a great sale right now... my employer is buying me a new Dell 17" LCD flat panel monitor for something like $250.

I had an HP before the Compaq merger... I pulled it off the shelf at Office Depot, paid $600 for it, and it lasted 4.5 years. The only upgrades I did were increasing the RAM from 64 MB to 256 MB before installing Windows XP. I eventually sold it for $100, and it was still working fine.

IBM... now that they've sold off their PC division to Lenovo, I'd want to see how that works out before buying one. I will say that I got four years out of an IBM Aptiva, and it was pretty much running (aside from the occasional odd beep) when I retired it.

BTW, I remember using the original IBM Personal Computer from 1981... those things were built like tanks and would run forever. I also remember the IBM PC XT, released in 1983, which featured a hard drive with an entire 10 megabytes of disk space. (Consider that today, you can put 60 gigabytes in your pocket witn an iPod.)

I took my HP pavillion notebook back, it didn't work for shit. I want my next lap to be a dell w/ xp pro and hella memory

Janfriend said:

If you can afford it: Sony VAIO

TMPletz said:

THAT's the best way to go (if you're a programmer). And you save a lot of money!!!

For the people that cares to know: I have a desktop from Gateway.

When I'm ready to buy a new computer, it will be a laptop from Sony VAIO

Dell.

thats what i am typing on right now...its a great computer.

and i have had nothing but success with their tech support. mind you i have only had to call them once (so far!!) and they were fantastic.




[Edited 7/30/05 13:12pm]

TonyVanDam said:

You don't even need to be a programmer.

Here's what I can get through Dell

SYSTEM COMPONENTS
Dimension 3000 Qty 1
Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor w/ HT Technology (3GHz, 800 FSB), Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition Unit Price $895.00
Dell Home Customers: Save $100 instantly off this Dell Dimension 3000!
Limited Time Offer!
- $100.00

Catalog Number: 29
Module Description Show Details
Dell Dimension 3000 Series Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor w/ HT Technology (3GHz, 800 FSB)
Operating System Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition
Memory 512MB Dual Channel DDR SDRAM at 400MHz
Keyboard and Mouse Bundles Dell Quietkey Keyboard and Dell 2-button Scroll Mouse
Monitors No Monitor
Video Card Integrated Intel® Extreme Graphics 2
Hard Drive 40GB Ultra ATA/100 7200RPM Hard Drive
Floppy Drives and Additional Storage Devices No Floppy Drive Included
Mouse Mouse included with Keyboard purchase
Network Interface Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
Modem 56K PCI Data/Fax Modem
Adobe Software Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 6.0
CD or DVD Drive Single Drive: 48x CD-RW Drive
Sound Card Integrated Audio
Speakers Dell A215 Speakers
Office Productivity Software Microsoft Works Suite 2005 - Includes Word 2002, Streets & Trips 2005
Security Software New! Norton Internet Security 2005 AntiSpyware Edition 15-months
Digital Music Musicmatch® Jukebox Basic
Digital Photography Photo Album™ SE Basic
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options 2Yr Ltd Warranty, 2Yr At-Home Service, and 2Yr Technical Support
Internet Access Services 6 Months of America Online Membership Included
Enhanced Software for CD or DVD Burner DigitalMedia Plus:Burn,Copy CD Music/Data,Backup,Label(CD-RW/DVD+RW only)
Miscellaneous Award Winning Service and Support
Financial Software (Preinstalled) No QuickBooks package selected- Includes limited use trial
Dell Media Experience Dell Media Experience™
Operating System Backup & Recovery Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition backup CD


-----

Dell 720 Color Printer Qty 1
Free Dell Color Printer 720 Unit Price $0.00
Catalog Number: 29
Module Description Show Details
Dell Color Printer 720 Free Dell Color Printer 720
Hardware Support Services 1Yr Ltd. Warranty- Advance Exchange

ACCESSORIES
Dell USB Printer Cable - 10 ft black Qty 1
TOTAL:$820.00




Compare to the Gateway 5310s I posted previously, it seems I getting more for less through Gateway, No?

Janfriend said:

I would go with Dell's package b/c of the P4 Processor w/HT which is a plus.

What is the benefit of HT?