IrresistibleB1tch said:

hey me too! .... "are all vegetarians into chunky men?"

Reincarnate said:

"only the really cool ones!"

IrresistibleB1tch said:

... I needed that - on such a bad day to be made to laugh by a witty friend ... God bless you Martina
[Edited 7/7/05 9:08am]

IrresistibleB1tch said:

Reincarnate said:

Nero said:

I couldn't give a shit if people ate a steak in front of me, they just shouldn't be hypocrites and lie by saying retarded bullshit like how much they respect life or love animals or humans...
I think that people should just fuck off with their fake hollier-than-thou morals...
They love telling people off or push their illogical fakeness on people who kill other people but then proceed to support killing and EATING other life with a big smile on their face as if it's the most normal thing in the world...
Eat/fry/microwave a human baby and these folks go through the roof as if you're doing something weird, hypocritical pieces of shit, flesh = flesh...
Sure people shouldn't shove their vegetarian/vegan way of life at people just like people shouldn't shove their bullshit affectation and nonsense morals towards people who enjoy killing/eating humans, or even worse and pathetic punish them for it...

Neversin.

Dewrede said:

it's the carbohydrates in pasta that make it so called "fattening" what makes it even more fattening (and delicious) is the sauce of choice! mmmmm.

and just for the record (as if anyone cares) my husband is an AVID hunter, I have no problem eating meat...my favorite part is the heart! Yummy! all hearts taste the same...pig, deer, chicken...mmm mmm good! Any healthy human's heart would prolly taste just as good. I've eaten Deer, bear, moose, and elk. I think Venision (deer) is the best, it's lower in fat and cholesterol than beef and is wild so no chemicals and all that. anyway.

Neversin said:

oh..you're gonna love my post.

edit
I had to add that most native peoples of any land had the utmost respect for animals even though they had to eat them and use there by products to survive.
[Edited 7/7/05 10:03am]

Shorty said:

couldn't live without pasta

Neversin said:

I'm sorry but I will never understand the comparison between animal and human life. I will never understand how people sometimes treat animals better than they treat people.

you and me baby ain't nothing but mamal

Neversin said:

all meat eaters should kill and eat an animal at least once in their lives so they would understand that the meat just doesn't appear wrapped up in the supermarket all ready for the grill. I'm a proud carnivore and i've killed my own meat before.

Good , at least you're no hypocrite

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

i can't speak for others here, but i come at this not from a comparative viewpoint (it's futile to value one life over another - we've done plenty of that among humans, and even emong animals, and it's only lead to more suffering.)

i think of it in terms of ability to experience pain. i don't want to inflict pain and suffering, to the best of my ability, and i don't want it done on my behalf. so to me, being a vegan is one way to limit the amount of pain and suffering caused by my life. it's not perfect, of course, but it's the best i know to do.

Shorty said:

They killed animals to secure their own survival without thinking about the animal/life they've taken, so much for "the utmost respect for animals"...
When push comes to shove they only think about themselves...
If they really had respect for animals they would have found a way of surviving that didn't involve taking another life and if they didn't then they should have just accepted their fate...

Neversin.

Neversin said:

hunting, and the teamwork and strategy involved in it, is the REASON that our brains evolved speach and logic and all our technilogical abilities. Meat eating is Natural, it's what humans were designed to do, we are the greatest predator on the planet and anyone with a respect for the natural order of things would understand that. we were created to kill.

IrresistibleB1tch said:

I have a lot of respect for you, Martina but some of these posts are just incredulous to me.

byronic said:

i actually kinda believe what you just said, but it leaves several open questions:


* how many animals did our ancestors kill per person? did they eat the flesh of several different animals every day, as many in the "developed" world do?
* are we still evolving? and if so, can plant-based proteins get us there as well?
* was compassion part of that evolution? should we be more compassionate now than we were a million or so years ago?
* (this one is tricky - few of you will likely agree with this one, but i'll post it anyway) is the suffering of beings justified by the more rapid advancement of another being? if we had evolved more slowly with plant-based proteins, yet had evolved to the same level eventually, would that have been preferable?

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

that's ok - nobody says you have to agree. but there's value in hearing where others come from.

byronic said:

Hilarious... And that was a good thing?!
Look at where humans are now in this world, pretty pathetic if you ask me: lazy, weak, inconsiderate, pretentious, war-mongering and just plain dumb...


No, we evolved into killing "machines" because it was easier and lazier to kill than using our brains...
Why is it we aren't "allowed" to kill other humans and are punished for it if we "were created to kill"?

Neversin.

IrresistibleB1tch said:

The thing about you is that you present your side and leave it at that. Others here put their thoughts on the matter out there and slam others in the process. That is fucked up to me. If there was some much concern about life in general, the world would not be in the state it's in. Carnivores are not the only ones who are 'hypocrites'.

Neversin said:

we wouldn't have our brains if we didn't kill first. so we couldn't have used our brains to find something other than meat to eat as we wouldn't have advanced brains if we didn't kill. we evolved intelligence to enable us to compete against other predators and to allow us to succesfully kill.

and Human life is more important than any other life, sad, but true, sentience and intelligence makes it so, if we were to discover another animal which had the capacity for advanced thought, then it would be wrong to kill it also. there is nothing wrong with eating the diet that humanity evolved to eat. there is nothing wrong with being human.
[Edited 7/7/05 10:46am]

Neversin said:

you don't understand at all. True they killed animals to secure their own survival but they did indeed think about the lives they had to take, which is why they used every bit of the animal and didn't waste it. They knew it was a valuable life...live or dead. IF push does come to shove it will be interesting to see if you just accept your fate...or if you will suddenly realize that killing and eating something ain't so bad. IF push comes to shove...my family and I will survive...and you will be dead. good luck to ya.

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

i try to keep it to my opinion - some days are better than others!

there are hypocrites on all sides, and within each group - seems like everybody believes they have the ONE answer. hunting meat-eaters bash store-buying meat-eaters, vegans slam vegetarians for not going all the way... and everything in between. those arguments keep us from doing something truly constructive (including yours truly) - that's the bad part...

byronic said:

Weird theory and not credible...


And like I said look where it got us...


Pathetic... There's nothing true about that...
Humans are only important to themselves (and made important by themselves) just like any other parasite they just destroy, the world is better off without them so that makes them the least important life on this planet...
And since humans aren't that intelligent to begin with...


No not with being human but human itself is one huge mistake...

Neversin.

Shorty said:

I don't consider myself weak, so yes, I will accept my fate and will never take the life of an animal if I can't give it back to it...


And you'll keep destroying whatever is left of this planet in the process...

Neversin.
[Edited 7/7/05 11:16am]

byronic said:

I don't want to get involved in the "who is right, who is wrong" debate here, but did want to say that scientists and researchers are finding new information all the time which challenges our preconceptions about how intelligent the animal species are. Many are far more advanced, experiencing both emotional attachment to their own and having reasoning skills, than we realised even five years ago.

As a vegetarian, I find it difficult to reconcile thoughts of eating an animal which experiences both emotional pain as well as physical pain. As I said previously, I don't want to push my lifestyle on anyone but I personally don't want to be responsible for killing any sentient creature on this planet. I feel good that I can put my beliefs into practice and that because I can, less animals will have died over the course of my lifetime than might have done had I been a meat-eater.

What bothers me far more than people eating meat is people disrespecting animals - seeing animals caged, performing for the public or used in other ways that degrade them ... and I absolutely loathe seeing meat products used on television in wasteful ways, for example in some of these reality TV shows where meat is wasted in the name of entertainment. It seems that some people lose touch with the fact that these products were once part of animals that actually died ... and to have them die needlessly in the name of entertainment really appalls me.

exactly , and that's why i'm an 'annoying' vegetarian
[Edited 7/7/05 11:18am]

Neversin said:

all animals are important to themselves, that's the nature of life, survival and propegation of the species from virus right on up to man. without that self-importance there would be no life. without self-importance you wouldn't exist, neither would i, neither would animals. self hate is not healthy, embrace the killer inside of you, it's in your dna, killing is nature.