Pro: The Moon Landing was not fake
Con: The Moon Landing Hoax

The Moon Landing. Do you believe it happened?

I saw a program on this because before I was fairly convinced it was fake.
But there was one flaw to each proposal on the fake theory - and it was always serious enough to damage the theory's integrity.

for instance, when you are in bright light like the astronaughts were, dimmer lights to not show up in photographs - that is why there are no stars.

The program also set up a fake lunar landing site to prove this. It worked.

Zogmuffin said:

Weirdo Conspiracy Loser.

TheFrog said:

Yea, everyone knows it is a big coverup. They landed found a tribe of giant walking turnips with eyes and had to fake all the footage because the turnip men kept jumping infront of all the shots. Neil was not best pleased.

"One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind"

Neil, u doofus, that use of 'man' is a synonym of 'mankind'!

Wasn't he meant to say 'a man'?

i sometimes question it ... then i think ... WHY would the soviet union have NOT said anything ...???

Fauxie said:

it works either way, and better as a synonym for mankind.

TheFrog said:

I'm sure they meant to juxtapose the simple physical step of 'a man' with the metaphorical leaping of mankind.

If u use 'man' and 'mankind', and agree that here they are synonyms, you're basically saying...

"One small step for mankind. One giant leap for mankind."

Fauxie said:

Well yes, that is what you're saying, but by using 'man' rather than 'mankind' for both, you're making it far more powerful. And I think that works fine. He was a representation of mankind in making that small step onto another alien floor. So the metaphorical leap of mankind still fits. I know what you're saying, but I feel that it has more impact if he is representative of mankind in making such an otherwise unsubstantial step, rather than just 'a man'.

Yep, 'a man' can still be representative of mankind, which we would no doubt have said ourselves. He was going one step further though - for maximum impact, he was assuming that representation himself.

TheFrog said:

I am with you Frog, he was man, making the small step a giant leap for mankind

I should know. I am the moon.

TheFrog said:

Man wasn't taking a small step. He was, however, taking a giant leap. Armstrong fluffed it, and despite later efforts to have it changed by saying he was misquoted due to static, that's the line that has become so famous. 'A man' was the intended line.

Fauxie said:

It doesn't matter if "a man" was the intended line - "man" still works. Literally, 'a man' was making the small step - metaphorically, man was making the step, and the leap.
[Edited 6/30/05 8:15am]

About the famous line, the controversy is not about whether he intended to say 'man' or 'a man', but rather about whether he did say the 'a' or not. It's been confirmed that 'a man' is what was intended, rehearsed and was the line Armstrong was supposed to deliver. Journalists at the time weren't sure what they should write, since NASA claimed he had said 'a', but that static had blocked it out. Armstrong initially said he had said it (though later said he wasn't sure but thought he had), and in the end the group of journalists got together to listen to the recording and all agreed to write the same quote of what they heard after coming to an agreement.

Armstrong has since then been presented with some award or other with his famous quote engraved on it and he asked about where the missing 'a' was. Never mind. I think we all got the meaning anyway, even if upon further inspection it's not quite as profound as it should have been.

TheFrog said:

'man' could make the step, but making the metaphorical leap is much more coherent in the context.

I know what u're saying about Armstrong being representative of 'man' and/or 'mankind' and therefore people and the world making both the step (through Armstrong) and the leap, but that's pretty nonsensical in the context. It would lessen the difference in meaning between the two clauses, and would render the juxtoposition pretty pointless. It's fine to say it works on paper, but you can hardly deny the context of it and the clear logic that stems from that.

I just don't see the point in saying that humans are taking a small step and a giant leap. That's hardly too profound. It just seems far more logical, with the two parts of the line as they are, to see 'a man' as being simply Armstrong the man, and 'mankind' as being humans as a whole. The line being in two parts has far greater significance this way. I guess it just comes down to my thinking of 'man' and 'mankind' as synonymous and not seeing the point in referring to the same subject in each part.

I can't believe I'm arguing this though. I do still like The Smiths and Nick Drake by the way.

JDINTERACTIVE said:

Well? Did they walk on you?

Spill, there is Frog/Fauxie battle going on here!

Fauxie said:

I just disagree with all of that - it being nonsensical and pointless, on my interpretation. For me, it has more power, significance and impact for the reasons i've already given. I tentatively agree that it might be more 'logical' to have "a man" and then "mankind" but only in a non-metaphorical sense. Since we're dealing explicitly with metaphors here, I think that certainly doesn't detract, and almost works in its favour. You disagree, but you still like the Smiths and Nick Drake. So we're disagreeably cool.

Where's Heidi gone?

POSTDOMINANT said:

There's no battle. TheFrog will call me a beardo, I'll post the same old tired 'Today all frogs must die' picture, TheFrog will then call me a git, I'll remind him of my love for Nick Drake and TheSmiths and he'll conclude that I'm still a bearded git.

Fauxie said:

I still think Heidi could clear a few things up in the absence of JD the moon

TheFrog said:

Speak for yourself!

I am definitely not cool.

Fauxie said:

Sure you are.

"I make a small step on behalf of mankind, mankind leaps forward."

TheFrog said:

"One small step for a man on a little green frog, and a giant leap forward for the org"

Fauxie said:

bastard.

Ya know, I need to employ someone to create a photo of you with beard.

After that, I could die happy.

TheFrog said:

I thought u'd have some special Froggy instincts that would alert you to potential squish-related jokes around certain words. I certainly didn't think you'd be too confident while the word 'step' was so prevalent.

...
[Edited 6/30/05 8:52am]

POSTDOMINANT said:

right here. You people are