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Thread started 06/16/05 7:42am

JediMaster

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Batman Begins

A few months back, I received the script to Batman Begins, which I reviewed here on this site (sorry, that damned search function still doesn't work). I was surprised at how much care David Goyer had put into crafting such a wonderful screenplay, and how accurrate it was to the Batman mythos. It fleshed out many details of his origin that had only been hinted at in the comics, and actually focused on Bruce Wayne/Batman instead of the villians for a change. I remember at the time I read it thinking that, if this was the script they were using, then it would be a fantastic film.

I'm happy to report that they did, indeed, use that script! It is, truly, the first time Batman has been done right in a live-action film. I won't go into the storyline too much, because I have no intention of spoiling the film (and, I would ask anyone who wants to weigh in on this topic to please give a spoiler warning before posting anything referring to specifics)

Back in 1989, we were served up Tim Burton's dark, gothic Batman. While Keaton's performance captured the pathos, it missed out on MANY important facets of the character. Due to Nicholson's Joker being the primary focus of the storyline, Batman became a background character with his origin only being touched upon. The following film, 1992's Batman Returns, compounded the problem by adding THREE villians into the mix, and relegating Batman to a supporting role. The third and fourth films, helmed by Joel Shumacher, deteriorated into campy, shlocky messes laced with homo-erotic undertones (in other words, they had more in common with a Madonna video from the mid 90s than they did with the comics they were based on).

After the stunning failure of the fourth film, WB pulled the plug on the franchise, and it looked like Batman was gone from the live action format for the forseeable future. Fortunately, WB finally pulled their heads out of their collective asses. They hired screen and comic writer David S Goyer, and director Christopher Nolan, to relaunch the Batman films. This film completely ignores the previous four films, and instead takes the Dark Knight back to his roots. It focuses on what makes him choose to dress up like a bat and beat the crap out of the criminal underworld. It puts Batman in the spotlight, and concentrates on his story first and foremost. Gone are the nipples on the bat-suit, the butt shots and the silly, one-liner spewing villians. Batman is the focus, as it should be. This film has much more in common with Batman: The Animated Series (to date the best adaptation of The Dark Knight yet) than it does with any of the original four films.

The performances are fantastic, through and through. Bale is THE definitive big screen Batman, obviously taking the time to research the character. While Keaton was rich in angst, he ignored the playboy facade of Bruce Wayne. Bale not only gets that, but he NAILS it. He balances the vapid, jetsetter illusion of Wayne with the dark, tortured reality that is The Batman. None of the things the character does are against his comic persona at all (like Keaton's version throwing villians down elevator shafts and stuffing dynamite in their pants. Batman DOESN'T KILL, plain and simple, and Nolan and Goyer get that). Unlike any of the previous live action bat-men, you can actually buy that this guy could take out a whole host of thugs.

Bale's co-stars are just as good: Gary Oldman's Jim Gordon is perfect (its about time this incredibly important character was treated properly on film); Morgan Freeman has a brief, but great role as Wayne Industries employee Lucius Fox; Michael Caine's Alfred is fantastic (you finally see the surrogate father role he plays to Bruce); Liam Neeson turns your expectations of a Qui Gonn Jinn type character on their head in this movie; Cillian Murphy is deliciously deviant as Jonathan Crane/The Scarecrow; and rounding it out is Katie Holmes, whom I really didn't expect to like at all, but I did. She was almost a throwaway character, but Holmes managed to make her brief role actually matter.

Is the film perfect? No. It has a few flaws, but they are few and far between, and somehow the filmmakers seem to compensate for them. The Batman costume still looks cheesy, but Nolan smartly films it in such a way that we never see it dead on. It is always hidden in shadows, with only bits of detail ever shown. Hopefully, this will be tweaked in the follow up films.

I really don't want to say too much more, but I think the vast majority of the sceptics will be pleasantly surprised by this film. It is as good as Batman & Robin was bad.


batman
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[Edited 6/16/05 7:49am]
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #1 posted 06/16/05 7:43am

BabyCakes

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IF only flutie was here...

I had to hear about this movie for almost a year... he saw it yesterday (tok the day off of work mind you to go see it).. Said it was INCREDIBLE! We are going to see it together on Saturday...

When will the comic book insanity ever end for me... bawl

BTW- Hi Jedi hug
The day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom - Anais Nin

"Unnecessary giggling"... giggle
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Reply #2 posted 06/16/05 7:48am

JediMaster

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BabyCakes said:

IF only flutie was here...

I had to hear about this movie for almost a year... he saw it yesterday (tok the day off of work mind you to go see it).. Said it was INCREDIBLE! We are going to see it together on Saturday...

When will the comic book insanity ever end for me... bawl

BTW- Hi Jedi hug


Hey sweetie! hug batatcha!!!

Oh, you KNOW I'm dying to talk to the Fluteman about this one, especially since he and I have read through a couple different versions of the script!

I drug the wife and kids to this one last night and the lil' woman actually enjoyed it. It's not your typical comic book film at all.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #3 posted 06/16/05 7:49am

jerseykrs

Awesome. I'm taking the kids to see it on IMAX on Sunday.
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Reply #4 posted 06/16/05 7:50am

JediMaster

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jerseykrs said:

Awesome. I'm taking the kids to see it on IMAX on Sunday.


thumbs up!
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #5 posted 06/16/05 7:50am

Natisse

jerseykrs said:

Awesome. I'm taking the kids to see it on IMAX on Sunday.


omfg it's showing in IMAX there? omg how awesome!!!!! woot!
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Reply #6 posted 06/16/05 7:51am

jerseykrs

BTW, it's good to see Bale nailed the Wayne character. I always thought Batman was as much about Bruce as it was about the crusader, and the other films never quite got that down.
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Reply #7 posted 06/16/05 8:09am

JediMaster

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jerseykrs said:

BTW, it's good to see Bale nailed the Wayne character. I always thought Batman was as much about Bruce as it was about the crusader, and the other films never quite got that down.


nod That's been one of my biggest complaints about all of the Batman films to date. They just didn't get that Wayne is the facade.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #8 posted 06/16/05 8:10am

RipHer2Shreds

Saw it last night and loved every second of it!
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Reply #9 posted 06/16/05 8:16am

JediMaster

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Anyone else think this thread needs to be a sticky?
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #10 posted 06/16/05 8:18am

Dewrede

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Reply #11 posted 06/16/05 8:36am

thesexofit

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Is it better then the first one?

"u can tell all ur friends about me". How could Prince not sample that line? Its classic.
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Reply #12 posted 06/16/05 9:07am

JediMaster

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thesexofit said:

Is it better then the first one?

"u can tell all ur friends about me". How could Prince not sample that line? Its classic.


Personally, I think its vastly superior. The original was too focused on the Joker, screwed with his origin too much (The Joker killed his parents? rolleyes Too dumb!), and ignored important things about the very character's essence (Batman would never kill anyone, a point this film makes quite nicely). Burton made HIS version of Batman, but it wasn't the Batman of the comic book.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #13 posted 06/16/05 9:12am

thesexofit

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JediMaster said:

thesexofit said:

Is it better then the first one?

"u can tell all ur friends about me". How could Prince not sample that line? Its classic.


Personally, I think its vastly superior. The original was too focused on the Joker, screwed with his origin too much (The Joker killed his parents? rolleyes Too dumb!), and ignored important things about the very character's essence (Batman would never kill anyone, a point this film makes quite nicely). Burton made HIS version of Batman, but it wasn't the Batman of the comic book.



Off topic, but I love some of those 60's tv series ones. They are funny.
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Reply #14 posted 06/16/05 9:28am

TheBatman

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JediMaster said:

I really don't want to say too much more, but I think the vast majority of the sceptics will be pleasantly surprised by this film. It is as good as Batman & Robin was bad.

I'm scared Jedi... very afraid to go see this.

I wont mention the costume sucks (oops!), but every clip I have watched online shows Batman trying to be funny.

Batman is not funny, he's dark. He doesn't say much, his actions speak for him.

Just answer me one question... how bad are the lame one liners I've seen Bale's Batman throwing out there?
Tell me, do you bleed? You will!
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Reply #15 posted 06/16/05 9:37am

RipHer2Shreds

TheBatman said:

JediMaster said:

I really don't want to say too much more, but I think the vast majority of the sceptics will be pleasantly surprised by this film. It is as good as Batman & Robin was bad.

I'm scared Jedi... very afraid to go see this.

I wont mention the costume sucks (oops!), but every clip I have watched online shows Batman trying to be funny.

Batman is not funny, he's dark. He doesn't say much, his actions speak for him.

Just answer me one question... how bad are the lame one liners I've seen Bale's Batman throwing out there?

I didn't think there were a load of one-liners in this film (and I'm no fan of the one-liner in general). Batman himself was straight up scary sometimes. Very intense! I've not fully liked any of the Batman films, but I loved this one.
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Reply #16 posted 06/16/05 9:39am

jerseykrs

JediMaster said:

Anyone else think this thread needs to be a sticky?



Exactly!!!
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Reply #17 posted 06/16/05 10:00am

MIGUELGOMEZ

RipHer2Shreds said:

TheBatman said:


I'm scared Jedi... very afraid to go see this.

I wont mention the costume sucks (oops!), but every clip I have watched online shows Batman trying to be funny.

Batman is not funny, he's dark. He doesn't say much, his actions speak for him.

Just answer me one question... how bad are the lame one liners I've seen Bale's Batman throwing out there?

I didn't think there were a load of one-liners in this film (and I'm no fan of the one-liner in general). Batman himself was straight up scary sometimes. Very intense! I've not fully liked any of the Batman films, but I loved this one.




The one liners are kept to a minimum and are proven effective by the audience.


M
MyeternalgrattitudetoPhil&Val.Herman said "We want sweaty truckers at the truck stop! We want cigar puffing men that look like they wanna beat the living daylights out of us" Val"sporking is spooning with benefits"
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Reply #18 posted 06/16/05 10:19am

Milty

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what i loved aboout this film was that FINALLY there was a Bruce Wayne that was credible. Bale completely lives up to the playboy image when he returns back to G.C.
there was a valid representation of Gotham as well. Michael Caine was great except that his look for me was a bit wrong. Alfred should be tall, thin and dark haired. Freeman was good too alotho i don't remember him knowing what Batman's secret identity was.

Neeson was good except Ra's Al Ghul is of Middle Eastern descent in the books. Murphy as the Scarecrow was cool but i wanted a better look at the Scarecrow.

what i did not like was...Batman. everytime he appeared and especially when he spoke he reminded me a big ol palooka named Vinny with the way he spoke. oh and that Batmobile...i liked it as a car but as the Batmobile.

other than that, i really liked this movie. i am overjoyed that Batman is back on the big screen and i can't wait until part 2.
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Reply #19 posted 06/16/05 10:21am

Milty

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jerseykrs said:

JediMaster said:

Anyone else think this thread needs to be a sticky?



Exactly!!!



co-sign
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Reply #20 posted 06/16/05 2:14pm

JediMaster

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TheBatman said:

JediMaster said:

I really don't want to say too much more, but I think the vast majority of the sceptics will be pleasantly surprised by this film. It is as good as Batman & Robin was bad.

I'm scared Jedi... very afraid to go see this.

I wont mention the costume sucks (oops!), but every clip I have watched online shows Batman trying to be funny.

Batman is not funny, he's dark. He doesn't say much, his actions speak for him.

Just answer me one question... how bad are the lame one liners I've seen Bale's Batman throwing out there?


Not bad at all. Most of the sillier dialogue is relegated to Bruce Wayne when he's playing up his playboy persona. It fits in that context, trust me.

This Batman is dark, and the film has VERY little humour at all. In fact, my 7 year old complained that Batman wasn't as funny as Spider-Man
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #21 posted 06/16/05 2:20pm

JediMaster

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Milty said:

what i loved aboout this film was that FINALLY there was a Bruce Wayne that was credible. Bale completely lives up to the playboy image when he returns back to G.C.

nod
there was a valid representation of Gotham as well. Michael Caine was great except that his look for me was a bit wrong. Alfred should be tall, thin and dark haired. Freeman was good too alotho i don't remember him knowing what Batman's secret identity was.

Gotham actually looked like a real city! I loved that. Yeah, Caine isn't physically right for the part, but he otherwise nailed it. As for Freeman, no Lucius doesn't know his identity in the books, but the way this flick handled that was cool. It really wasn't a big deal.

Neeson was good except Ra's Al Ghul is of Middle Eastern descent in the books. Murphy as the Scarecrow was cool but i wanted a better look at the Scarecrow.

Well, in this day and age, there was no way they were going to cast a terrorist like Ra's as Middle Eastern. To me, the casting worked, because it played off of your preconceived notions of the actor.

what i did not like was...Batman. everytime he appeared and especially when he spoke he reminded me a big ol palooka named Vinny with the way he spoke. oh and that Batmobile...i liked it as a car but as the Batmobile.

I wound up really liking the Batmobile. It really seemed like a modified military vehicle, and I can see it evolving over the series into a sleeker design. As for Batman, I thought he ROCKED! He SHOULD seem fearsome, like he's capable of taking your head off.

other than that, i really liked this movie. i am overjoyed that Batman is back on the big screen and i can't wait until part 2.

nod Which, according to Goyer, is going to feature a Joker based on the Killing Joke origin!

[Edited 6/16/05 14:20pm]
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #22 posted 06/16/05 2:47pm

TheBatman

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JediMaster said:

nod Which, according to Goyer, is going to feature a Joker based on the Killing Joke origin!

As long as they leave out the part about Joker shooting Barbara, it should be OK.

Ah... what to do, what to do.

I don't know Jedi. Should I go see it?
Tell me, do you bleed? You will!
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Reply #23 posted 06/16/05 3:36pm

jerseykrs

TheBatman said:

JediMaster said:

nod Which, according to Goyer, is going to feature a Joker based on the Killing Joke origin!

As long as they leave out the part about Joker shooting Barbara, it should be OK.

Ah... what to do, what to do.

I don't know Jedi. Should I go see it?



Why leave out the shooting of Barbara?
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Reply #24 posted 06/16/05 3:51pm

XxAxX

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RipHer2Shreds said:

TheBatman said:


I'm scared Jedi... very afraid to go see this.

I wont mention the costume sucks (oops!), but every clip I have watched online shows Batman trying to be funny.

Batman is not funny, he's dark. He doesn't say much, his actions speak for him.

Just answer me one question... how bad are the lame one liners I've seen Bale's Batman throwing out there?

I didn't think there were a load of one-liners in this film (and I'm no fan of the one-liner in general). Batman himself was straight up scary sometimes. Very intense! I've not fully liked any of the Batman films, but I loved this one.


that's good news. i didn't like the first two and stopped after that. which was a disappointment since batman is a great character/story.
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Reply #25 posted 06/16/05 4:04pm

TheBatman

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jerseykrs said:

Why leave out the shooting of Barbara?

Why leave it in?

It was a mistake and ruined the character of Batgirl.

I don't even want to deal with this Oracle thing... there is only one Batgirl: Barbara Gordon. The commisioner's daughter... not his niece. Ruining her original origin was another past mistake.

Mistakes that need to be corrected.
Tell me, do you bleed? You will!
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Reply #26 posted 06/16/05 4:51pm

Neversin

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Finally a comic book "adaption" I enjoyed and even that gerbil faced idiot was somewhat tolerable (there's a first time for everything I suppose...)
Bale makes an excellent Bruce Wayne/Batman, Gary Oldman is excellent as usual (except for the obviously forced and rather lame "funny" remark...) Michael Caine's Alfred was funny as fuck and fit him quite nicely...
Only gripe I have with it is that some parts seemed too rushed and could have been easily fixed if the movie was about an hour longer (which I really wanted it to be but alas...) otherwise a great movie...
Especially loved the ending which gave me a big grin on my face... Can't wait for the next, hopefully equally enjoyable, chapter...

Neversin.
O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
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Reply #27 posted 06/16/05 6:50pm

uPtoWnNY

I just got back, and Batman Begins is simply awesome! It blows the previous four films away. It belongs up there with Spidey 2, X-Men 2 & the Hulk(yes, the Hulk) as the best superhero film ever made. It reminded me of Batman: Year One - Frank Miller would be proud. Kudos to Chris Nolan & Christian Bale - this is THE definitive Dark Knight.

After the Catwoman disaster, Warner Bros. has hit a home run. I can't wait for Superman & Wonder Woman.
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Reply #28 posted 06/16/05 8:50pm

Milty

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it's even better the second time.

sun
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Reply #29 posted 06/16/05 9:07pm

TMPletz

Argh...I still need to see this yet, and I won't have any time to for another week! confused
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