Nero said:

Sadly, like all religious people who put their beliefs before anything else in their life, he believes that he is right and you are wrong...if you disagree with thos beliefs then you are seen to be an idiot.

Unfortunately we see this day after day with Christiantity etc but nobody bats an eyelid...but when it comes from a movie star who believes in soemthing a bit smaller then its headline news.(although it is a slightly weird set or beliefs)

In what forum did he make the Brooke Shields comment?

CinisterCee said:

He made it on Access Hollywood and rehashed it on the Today show. He says he loves Brooke but that she was irresponsible to write a book extolling the virtues of how drugs helped her beat postpartum depression.

To be honest, when I saw Brooke on Oprah, I was saddened that she dealt with her depression through drugs. She told Oprah after her baby was born she didn't want to touch her or even go near her. Her poor husband was devastated because he would be out and see other mothers so happy with their newborns and his wife, Brooke, didn't even want to feed the baby.


That's intense. That's a very serious, real situation that happens to a lot of women. But there are subconscious thoughts behind such behavior that must be analyzed and understood. I believe like Aristotle that the unexamined life is not worth living. Yet people are fearful of examining the scariest, most unstable parts of themselves. I guess we've raised a society of dependents. People need Montel, psychics, God, or drugs. They just want a salve to get over pain fast.

But if you remember seeing Brooke on Oprah, she didn't look strong or "healed" to me. She looked like a broken spirit. That made me sad, because I'm a big fan of Brooke's from when she was a child star all the way to Suddenly Susan.

Drugs can take away the pain, but they can't excise what ails you. It's still there and you will be broken until you deal with it. That's what people do not understand. To see her so weak and broken but acting like drugs had strengthened her was a bit repulsive ... I mean the delusion of it all.

Oh-- the most hurtful thing Tom said was something like "look at Brooke's career and where it's gone. Where is she in life? Is she happy. Is she healed?"

He probably wants to save her through Scientology.

Like someone said above, I'm sure other religious exponents would recruit her in this fashion by saying she's broken and needs ....

I'm a firm believer that each person must do what is right for themselves.

I do think psych drugs are pushed too easily by many doctors, and I also feel they are most effective when coupled with counseling of some sort. The drugs may ease some of the pain/psychosis enough that a person can then start examining and working through the issue(s) to resolve and come to peace with them.

With my work, I've seen both sides of this issue. I've seen the amazingly positive effects of psych meds on folks with serious and persistant mental illness. I've also seen folks that are simply overwhelmed with life pressures so they take a pill and don't make attempts to directly address the issues that are causing them pain (and the problems don't go away).

Regardless, this is a choice for an individual to make and instead of lecturing what I believe, I just provide information and try to help people clarify what THEY BELIEVE they need. It is not my place, or any celebrities place, to dictate what other people should or should not do to take care of themselves.

endorphin74 said:

That's why I assume Brooke, for instance, would need them.

I like him. I think it's admirable to stand up for what you believe when your beliefs aren't popular. But maybe it's not best to just give snippets to people that you don't really care about. Conclusion: keep beliefs to self and close others.

And I think it is up to the individual whether they take anti d's, but some people take them for a long time or instead of seeking out long term solutions to problems. They never worked for me but I can understand how in exceptional circumstances they can be useful.
[Edited 6/25/05 8:32am]

SynthiaRose said:

Wow. Your post makes me sad.

SynthiaRose said:

What an a-hole Tom Cruise is. Does he walk on water or something? Man, STFU and worry about your own life.

I hope his movie career is affected by his stupidity.

Stymie said:

Why?
Do you think I'm being naive to other perspectives?
I'm trying to understand both sides of the issue.
But for me to believe that people absolutely need medication is to believe they are helpless, abnormal entities incapable of being healthy on their own.

I don't believe that about any human. We have the power to heal ourselves without medication.

But. like others have said, each person has to make their own choice and believe in that choice.

But if one person reading this thread decides to go off meds and strenghthen themselves with meditation, introspection, exercise, and healthy eating... I will be soo happy.

SynthiaRose said:

Yes, I do believe you are being naive to other perspectives or just ignoring them altogether. I don't think you are trying to understand both sides. I think you have made up in your mind that your way is the only way. i on the other hand think that people should do whatever works for them: Medicated or not. To me, in my honest opinion, the way you present your side is kinda insulting. You use words for Brooke such as repulsive and delusional. Maybe if you were to offer up something a little less on the personal attack side and Mr. Cruise too, people would be a little more receptive.I have tried every method that you mentioned from meditation to religion nd they obviously did not balance out what I feel is a chemical imbalance in my brain so i'll do, like I said, what I feel I have to do.

But hey, maybe you are the type of person who feels like sugarcoating doesn't work and tough love does. Maybe you have helped someone to consider going off meds and dealing with their issues in a diffrent way.

uPtoWnNY said:

It does kinda look like a porn still, doesn't it

I don't like sugarcoating or tough love. I just like dealing with the truth of the matter. And to me the truth is that chemical imbalances arise from emotions not the other way around. It's the chicken and egg argument.

Do people feel sad because of chemical imbalance? or is some issue making them sad so their body becomes chemical imbalanced?


But I'll let it rest. I do want to be sensitive to those who believe differently.

Believe it or not, I'm speakign from a point of sympathy.

And to clarify, I don't think Brooke is repulsive. I do think she's delusional and delusions in themselves are repulsive.

I think she's delusional because she thinks she's healed. On Oprah she praised how the drugs turned her around but didn't once say if she discovered a concrete reason why she was feeling depressed in the first place.

And she said because of the drug's effectiveness she's ready to have another child. !

Tom has been under the radar of being the #1 star. But lately he finally has been flaming out

That over laughing at everyones jokes & or words. Plus that way to dyed hair. He has the 45 year old wrinkle face with 25 year looking hair.

Didn't have the patience before but I just watched that part of the intv. Tom needs some time away from the mic

SynthiaRose said:

I started to Orgnote you because I wanted to talk more about this. My only question is: Aren't emotions tied to the brain? I find myself feeling sad without any reason behind it.

ElectricBlue said:

I think it must be some sort of hairpiece or something. It always looks the same. It never moves.

I think Ol' Tommy Cruise is brilliant at what he does but,like any religion, he has to know when to draw teh line and he certainly has to know that not all peopel want it rammed down their throats (you listening Prince???)

Thats apparently why Scarlett Johansen has pulled out of Mission Impossible 3 - he spent the day with her and constantly tried to push Scientology on her and the in the evening,when they were due to have a meal to discuss the film, it turns out that the meal was with the heads of the Scientology church. She made her excuses and left saying she now has other contractual obligations.

Or so Ive heard

purplegypsy said:

Since he's not a doc, who cares what he has to say about the issue?

VoicesCarry said:

Excatly. I honestly think he's losing his mind and his old publicist doing one of two things.

1. If they are honestly on good terms. she is probably really upset and knew this would happen.

2. If he fired her because he is a dick, she is laughing her ass off and saying I told you so.

I honestly can't see that movie doing well after this. He's a walking time bomb! It's one thing to be opinionated and passionate. It's another to rage out on one major show and jump on the couch and do the "cha-ching" movement out of "joy" in another". Don't be surprised if his career goes crashing down. This is proof that nobody is invinicible in Hollywood or anywhere else.

CalhounSq said:

I think any other celeb would have been upset but laughed it off. Having the person arrested? Overboard but at least he didn't totally flip out and starting biting the guy's face...he's getting pretty close to there.

SynthiaRose said:

So let's get this straight....Brooke Sheild's is the broken one and Tom irrational behavoir makes perfect sense. Brooke wrote about her personal expereince from what I understand. The book, I don't think, is a commerical for medication! I give Brooke a lot of points for sharing this epxerience and being classy. I like the fact that Brooke gets bashed for her Oprah appreance. Prehaps your affection for Cruise is creating a lot of excuses for his behavoior, as well as demonizing anyone he has problems with. Brooke has it much more together than Cruise could ever dream of! At least she is willing to admit there is/was a problem.

I for one will buy the Brooke Shields book and I believe the book certaintly isn't aimed toward me as a target audience. I would rather hear her discuss this issue than Tom Cruise on every major TV show discussing religon and "new facial hair".

SynthiaRose said:

Tom Cruise is a dolt. Some mental illnesses can only be treated with medication, i.e Psychosis. Neurosis can be treated with therapy, counselling and if that doesn't work then medication. But try treating a psychotic illness with meditation and excercise and it wont work. There is an important distinction between the two and he doesn't even make it, so much for knowing about the history of psychiatry.

my 2 :cents:

Stymie said:

Yeah, emotions are tied to the brain, but I don't believe any emotion is without reason or due to some fluke of the brain.

External and internal stimuli (slap in the face, losing a job, falling in love, stepping on a tack) trigger emotion which causes the brain to release chemicals. For example,... you enter a haunted house (stimuli), you get frightened (you allow this emotional reaction), and the body releases chemicals to help your flee, become numb to pain, etc.

These are my beliefs though. Because I just like approaching life believing the human will can handle anything.

When I was in high school I remember telling my brothers who believe in the right to bear arms that I didn't want guns around the house because people can get hurt. They said what if someone breaks in and shoots you. I replied "Then I just won't die. I would will myself to stay alive."

I know that sounds cocky... but it's not just that I believe I can do that. I believe all humans can evolve to have such a will and strength

(that's why I like the movie Phenomenon... clearly the writer shares these views... I mean this main character played by Travolta [also a Scientologist] begins doing all these amazing things thinking he's been touched by God ... when in fact he has a brain tumor... no the brain tumor didn't give him power... but it is a metaphor suggesting that the power to transcend is within us if we only believe. But humans would rather believe greatness comes from God than themselves.)

I believe those who get miraculously healed from cancers, tumors, etc... sometimes heal themselves ... though they may credit God... and you hear stories of people who survive great trauma that should have killed htem... that's human will, baby... (anyway I'm penning a novel about this topic but it's taking years to finish)

Feel free to orgnote me anytime. I don't have any superior knowledge than you do. I've just spent years defining my personal philosophies and what I believe. But Stymie, I don't believe you've had one emotion "without any reason behind it."

Hope I don't come off as a jackass.... like Nietschze I guess I do somewhat believe in the superman/uberman.. though I'm not racist or sexist like he was.

The Superman is an ideal state to which everyone should strive ... but certainly it will take years to fully evolve to that stature..

Wow ... that was long-winded...

VinnyM27 said:

Now wait, I didn't endorse Tom's 'irrational behavior' I think his public declarations of love are over the top for someone as mature as I thought he was.

Yes I'm a fan of Cruise's art, but I'm not defending him because of that or demonizing those who don't believe as he does.

I like Brooke Shields. Cruise and I happen to share similar views on medication. I don't think speaking out passionately about your views is 'irrational' when those views are well thought out.

I'm not against psychiatry or psychology as he is. And I'm sure we'd disagree wildly over many things.

HEre's the full video of the Tom Cruise/matt lauer interview:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8343367/
[Edited 6/25/05 14:51pm]

SynthiaRose said:

Do you really, HONESTLY consider Tom Cruise's views on psychiatry and medication to be really "well thought out", though?

When he is asked to elaborate on his points or beliefs, or asked direct questions regarding certain subjects pertaining to psychiatry, medication, etc (even question directly about Scientology!), or is any way challenged about "his" beliefs, instead of offering up a thoughtful, intelligent rebuttal or explanation/clarification, Cruise instead just stammers, stutters, stares vacantly off into space, gets defensive and angry and uses diversionary tactics on the interview to veer off the subject, or begins (again!) reciting - by route - some pre-scripted sounding diatribe that he's obviously parroting from elsewhere (i.e. the Cof$) and of which he doesn't appear to really understand the meaning.

Did you see his interview with Matt Lauer the other morning? It was a perfect illustration of what I'm describing here. Everytime he is interviewed and goes off on his tangents, he shows himself to be even more of an idiot and uninformed robot for the Scientologists.

If he truly, honestly, fervently, sincerely believed everything he goes around spouting, I'd agree with you that he's merely speaking out on issues that he feels passionately about. And to be honest, I do agree with his point that these days people try to medicate away problems that would be better dealt with head on, and that kids are prescribed meds too often. But after seeing firsthand what my nephew has gone through dealing with his bipolar, I am NOT in agreement that ALL psychiatric medications are "wrong" or "unnecessary". Sometimes they're the reason a person can live the happy, normal life that they deserve. To think ALLLL psychiatric medications are wrong or evil is beyond ignorant...imo, it's just as ridiculous as that New Agey shit about how all bodily disease is merely a mental "dis"-ease with your own body or self, and that every illness is something that can be "thought away" if you just "accept" this or that about yourself or your body. Yeah, you develop cancer of the pancreas or leukemia or something just because you won't accept that you'll never be famous or rich or write the great American novel, or because you hated your high school gym teacher; but if you "accept" and "embrace" your feelings, then your "dis"-ease will be healed.

Having an illness where your brain chemistry can only be stabilized with medications is no different than having asthma and needing to use medication to control the inflammation so you can breathe (and live), or any other physical illness that requires medication to normalize and/or control the situation.

How can anyone claim my nephew's bipolar condition stems from some emotional issue he's "not facing"? He's been dealing with this since he was a SMALL CHILD. It is a physical illness that requires medication to help him have a normal life. He gets counseling, as well, but without the meds he'd be back in the hospital.

Anyhow, to me the belief that all illness of the body is a direct result of a person not "accepting" something about themselves is very similar to the crap Tom is spouting except I believe many of those New Agey types actually DO BELIEVE what they're saying so at least they're being honest. Tom is just a famous mouthpiece for his religion and doesn't even understand fully what he's talking about (regurgitating), which is why he gets so defensive and weird when he's questioned further about what he's saying, and so in the end he merely comes across as a phony and an idiot.

Tom says he "doesn't believe in psychiatric medications" because the Church of Scientology claims they can cure all illness, bodily and otherwise, by using vitamins and the mind -- they even say they can "cure" homosexuality.

Okay I know I'm rambling now so I'll stop. But I had to respond to your comment about speaking passionately about your views when they're "well thought out". Cruise's AREN'T, and pretty much any of his recent interviews proves that.

Where I live there was a young man about 18 or 19 who had serious mental disorders. His parents became Scientologists and took him off all his medication. A short time later he cut his mother up into pieces in an attempt to remove her "evil eye".

Fuck off Tom Cruise and Scientologists worldwide.

TBeatty716 said:

What's your point?

KaleidoscopeEyes said:

Tom to me seems like a person of independent mind ... most of the time.

Obviously that fact that he believes in this religion of dubious origin shows some lack of clear, honest thought. He does use some buzz words from Scientology but over all I do believe he's thought out what he believes and doesn't just follow blindly.

I haven't heard him stammer in explanation -- he stammers in explaining how he met Katie and so forth .. cause I'm sure he rigged that first date or "interview" with Katie. But on other matters I'm always impressed that he's so articulate.

I read the transcript of the Matt interview. I was working when it was shown. I did see some clips on T.V. I thought Matt looked like the less articulate one.

purplegypsy said:

[Edited 6/25/05 16:21pm]