In all of my travels I have come to the conclusion that American women just don't understand that while pursuing their careers and goals they must not abandon their role in actually "being" a woman to their men. I am all for equality from a societal standpoint; I'd never deny them what they should all have freely and unconditionally.

Somebody tell me how is it I can travel abroad to what has been at least 15 or so countries now and only here do our women not stand as firmly behind their men and do what is necessary for the relationship to thrive? American women are way too focussed on getting ahead in careers and doing it alone more than they are willing to do it for their male counterparts and being there for them.

Please understand if you have a deadbeat sorry ass man in your midst, then you must do what you have to do to get rid of that tired shit, but what about your thriving relationship? Are you really doing what a woman should do to keep your man?

I know for as well as could explain this there will still be some of you that take this completely out of context...just know, if you are not answering the post as I stated it...I will just ignore it...I am not here for a war of words...just dialogue.

I think this goes for both genders actually. There is a focus on possessions, not on relationships: family, friends, spouses, anybody. I think that's what you're picking up on.

Hey, Dex.

Can you give more specifics on what you feel American women are not doing, which they "should" be? You're speaking in generalities, as far as what women don't do to "stand firmly behind their men" and "keep your man".

The women I know do most, if not all, of the emotional work in the relationship and well as most of the housework, childrearing and they even bring in some income. Perhaps they are spread too thin to cater exclusively to their men's needs?

Again, can you be more specific about what American women aren't doing?

AnotherLoverToo said:

What you touched on is exactly what I mean. Most women here don't do this anymore and I am not speaking for ALL women, some do understand how to nurture their man and make them feel like they are the man of the house. But "the man of the house" is a long lost, antiquated notion in Americana anymore.

Call me old fashioned, but please understand that I am not attempting to objectify the womans role, but to help get back to understanding how men are thinking.

CarolineP said:

I agree with you one hundred percent! We are caught up first in keepin up with the "jone's" instead of focussing on our relationships internally and letting all that societal pressure supercede the way our relationships are made be.

DexMSR said:

Ok, so what exactly is it that women should do to make men feel like "the man of the house"? How are men thinking?

To be honest Dex, I never understood the "man of the house" thing.

Perhaps, because I was brought up in a household where we, men, and women worked equally to get the job done.

Whether it be cooking, cleaning, the essentials.

DexMSR said:

i hear what your sayin', every now and then its nice to rub your man's back or cook his favorite meal, purchase some new lingerie for him to critique when he comes home and full of stress. if i had a man that stood behind me in all that i do, i'd stand behind him and best believe he'd be satisfied, but alas i've only come in contact with losers so until then....

DexMSR said:

Don't you think you're generalizing a little, Dex? And isn't a relationship a two-way street? Why must the woman be subservient to the man?

I think it depends on the way you were brought up and not if you're american or an european woman


but hey! for the european women

DexMSR said:

Whap'n you before I begin.... cuz I do lubz me some you ...but Dex you can't generalize like that it's not fair .... I think most who know and love you also realize that you have a very staunch view that is completely channeled forward with regard to what you believe (focused) if you will.....

In most instances, I would merely read the posts and chuckle inwardly and allow you to stir the pot.... but today I feel like a little dialogue myself....

In other countries . . . women in many cases are not acknowledged ...only men are ... they are subsurvient and obedient and often veiled and hidden.... I guess it would depend on which particular country you are referencing...but in most free societies...women are women and men are men... and neither gender perfect mind you....

As open minded and non-conformist as you are in most arenas it surprises me that you would generalize like that....

I would like to think that in a relationship based on love and mutual respect that you would need not do anything to "keep" your man and likewise him his woman ...but rather upon finding your soulmate you would walk together and support and nurture each other...out of respect and love rather than expectation. That so makes the culmination and intensity so much more genuine...don't you think?

I really don't believe that I took it out of context so I'll expect that you'll reply .....my

AndGodCreatedMe said:

Dutch women are even worse.

analbolique said:

when it comes to you they are

All I have to say is that my man has no complaints with me! I know how to take care of him!

toffee said:

Toffe said--I would like to think that in a relationship based on love and mutual respect that you would need not do anything to "keep" your man and likewise him his woman ...but rather upon finding your soulmate you would walk together and support and nurture each other...out of respect and love rather than expectation. That so makes the culmination and intensity so much more genuine...don't you think? --

WHAP.

I can only speak for me and my relationship and my interpretation of what I think you meant Dex.
So here goes.
I married a military man, which means basically he's not home much and when he is he is usually not available on a regular basis. When he is home and he can do, he will. That being said, most of the work and the decisions are mine. In reality I hold it down mostly by my self. At the beginning of the relationship this was difficult until I explained to him that I needed him in a different capacity--emotional support, physically--U gotta hold me baby-- and spiritually--be it church, nurturing the spirit etc... So after 12 years with this man I know his needs and wants pretty well.
I know he needs to be needed, and since I am a strong independent woman - his words not mine- I have to make room for a brotha to be useful. He can fix Anything so I let him, he likes to solve problems if he is home and he can- so I let him, he loves to eat, so I cook what he likes, he likes to invite people over, so I clean the house and buy the groceries so he can barbeque and cook EVERYTHING for everyone.

We compliment each other. The sex is off the chain, but when he's tired I hold that down too basically after a lot of counseling and learning to communicate this is what we do and how we make it work and last time I checked the brotha was feeling pretty good.


[Edited 5/11/05 13:43pm]

brownsugar said:

IveRepliedLikeAnMFerToday said:

Once again...someone not reading or understanding what I am saying....never did I say women are to be subservient...ever in my words. I said they no longer nurture their man, and that can come in any way shape or form. When I was in my long term relationship, I would surprise her with a cd of her favorite artist...bought concert tickets to a show I had no intention on going, but bought it for her and her girl to go....little notes on the windshield for her to see on the way to work....but got none of that in return...she was a sensual and sexual abyss....there were no intimacies....but she did attempt to cook when it was something she was not used to...but I can cook.

AnotherLoverToo said:

Hi AnotherLoverToo!

Sorry to poke my nose into your discussion here but I can see that you're quietly fuming at Dex's comments and - in my opinion - rightly so. It really sounds like he wants a return to the twisted attitudes and values of the fifties. I don't sympathize with this since I am a strong believer in equality and don't approve of any societal function, however subtle it might be, that places one gender below the other. The whole "man of the house" thing feels terribly outdated and was never right in the first place.

However, the feminist movement sometimes reacts so strongly against some of these flaws in society that they often try to swing the pendulum too far to the other side, at least in some countries. I am from a country that is perhaps feminism's most active and influential stronghold in the world. This is a country in which:

...a "man tax" is being seriously considered. It's a tax that would be paid by all men because rape and spousal abuse is almost always committed by men. Penalizing whole groups in, say, the military for the errors of one or a few individuals is wrong. Most people agree with that. So to punish half of a country's population for the misdeeds of a few idiots is just crazy.

...a new feminist party has emerged that raked in over ten per cent of the voter sympathies before they had even established a political agenda.

...the feminist movement has publicly stated on many occasions that they want to "abolish the families" since they can be used as "instruments of oppression".

...many jobs are offered to "women only" compared to no jobs whatsoever being offered to "men only". I don't know how many times I've been defeated by a far less merited woman when applying for a job just because of the gender issue (they have openly told me that).

...articles about women's superiority over men are often publicized in papers and magazines largely unopposed while articles with an opposite opinion are completely unthinkable. Not even with a humoristic twist would they be accepted by any publisher.

...women wearing a dress or skirt or clearly visible makeup is looked down upon by other women. Same thing goes for emotional responses in a worklife situation and division of work within the family.

The above are factors that are integrated in society and not just the attitudes of a small radical group. I'm not saying that all countries are like this, but many of these factors can be seen to varying degree pretty much everywhere. The fact that extremely conservative men, which Dex seems to be, react against them is unsurprising. But when men that speak warmly of equality and that have never had a thought about dominating their female companion react against feminism, then you know that it's been taken too far.

Maybe this needs to happen. Maybe the pendulum has to swing over to the other, equally wrong side before it can find rest somewhere in between. But I personally think it's terribly unfortunate if the men of today have to be punished for the misdeeds of the men of yesterday. It is as wrong as punishing the Germans that are alive today for what a few of the Germans of the forties did during the second world war.

It can be discussed to no end what it means to "be a woman". I'm satisfied if equal opportunity really means equal opportunity (both ways) and women don't feel like they are being submissive when they wear a dress.

butterfli25 said:

CarrieLee said:

How do you do this.....please share.

retina said:

In all of my travels I have come to the conclusion that American women just don't understand that while pursuing their careers and goals they must not abandon their role in actually "being" a woman to their men. I am all for equality from a societal standpoint; I'd never deny them what they should all have freely and unconditionally.

what part of this are we not understanding people?

i work full time, raise my son on my own and presently have no man to speak of however...when i do...i am a complete nurturer. i love to cook (i hate the cleaning part tho!! ), always do special little things like put love notes or sexual suggestions in his lunchbox...but yet i am very independant and enjoy giving him his space and having my own as well. i have noticed in todays mainstream (not all women) that its the 'what-has-he-done-for-me-lately' mentality that is prevalent. some may call it equality or progress or whatever, personally i find it sad. mind you, i do believe it is a two way street...he has to want to do things for me too...i enjoy having a bath run for me on occasion...a surprise meal cooked for me (even if he can't cook and its only a grilled cheese sammich!!!)...having my car detailed....things like that. i need a man who likes to be nurtured and also can nurture me right back...is respectful and i can guarantee what goes around comes around in this instance...i will respect him too.

lillith said:

Hell Yeah!!!!!

whap!

I hear what you're saying Dex, I do. But my experience truly has been closer to what AL2 is describing. The women I know are doing the majority of the emotional work in the relationship. True, most of my friends have a problem with dating the wrong guys... but that's the experiences I witness.
I agree, both partners should be supporting each other. That's the only way to go, really.

What I am referring to is how in all the places I've been, women knew how to make their man feel loved and appreciated and knew how to keep that going with cooking, taking care of the things he cannot, serving him, taking care of his needs..and if THIS is taken care of and appreciated by your man, then it should be neverending right?

It is over here in SOME cases that women just are simply robots out for themselves and will never see themselves as serving a man in this capacity. Why??

And in these countries...these women were glad to do the tasks for the entire household. They cooked, cleaned, and treated us like every man wishes he could be treated. They didn't seem unhappy, I didn't see any women platforming to burn bras and champion change there. They were all more than happy to do what they did. I had a date with one woman and she brought her family over to meet me, and her "Aunt" went into the kitchen immediately and cleaned it up and made drinks for everyone in my condo! They felt comfortable doing it for "some" reason right?

i agree, stay in the kitchen

DexMSR said:

Oh, don't get me wrong. I love to entertain, whoever my guest may be. But I truly detest housework. lol. I think cooking and cleaning are necessary things to keep a household moving, sure, and if one partner enjoys it (a lot of people do) then that's great for one to take over the majority, whoever it may be. Housework is not my thing, so if I'm in a living situation with anybody, I expect that they do their fair share. And that's exactly what it is, fair. Doesn't mean I won't cook special meals for my partner, or clean up as a surprise cause I know they've had a long day, or what have you, but you had better not EXPECT me to take care of it all at all times. I think that's the difference.

In my situation, I come from a family where the women do absolutely everything and the men sit on their asses and expect to be served hand and foot at all times. Wives are little more than servants. Not saying there isn't love there, cause there is, but I watched this growing up and just said, that's not gonna be me. I could never really see what the women were getting in return. Now, I'm not looking to reverse it! I dont expect to be waited on hand and foot at all times either. Just back down to the equal partnership deal.