oh oh oh...one other siderant: what the fuck was that whoomp whoomp thing Obi was riding?

what? he couldnt find a hubbercraft or something? that was kinda silly if you ask me....

TMPletz said:

Y'all are joking around, but I kinda like that idea, him as the voice of Grievous or something.

BorisFishpaw said:

Interesting points, Boris.


Personally, I am inclined to accept the following interpretation of those facts:


01- That Palpatine really had no knowledge of the secret to immortality. His allusion to that knowledge was merely a calculated ploy on his part to get Anakin on his side. He knew Anakin would fall for that one hook line and sinker.

02- That the secret to immortality really did remain a secret up until Qui-Gon Jinn managed to return back from the dead (cue: Yoda's revelation to Obi-Wan near the end of Episode III).
The secret to immortality was always part of an ancient Jedi prophecy not meant to be deciphered by Jedi or Sith alike up until the appointed time came for it to be revealed (in this case to the Jedi)

03- That Palpatine was already "deformed" before his confrontation with Mace Windu. This explains why Palpatine did not seem perturbed in any way after the fight nor did his skin show the usual effects of scarring, whereas Anakin was clearly shown to suffer horrific burns after his showdown with Obi-Wan.

To gain support from the senate Palpatine merely used his deformed appearance in order to instigate the persecution and subsequent near-extinction of the Jedi order.

Palpatine's horrendous visage was his true appearance. The unnatural appearance of other Sith Lords, and their apprentices, bears witness to this.


.
[Edited 6/6/05 8:51am]

For anyone interested, some insiders leaked the DVD onto the usual torrent sites (they're XVID rips of the theatrical DVD not the retail DVD, so no outtakes or extended scenes...)
Some screenshots I made for quality...

Spot the Millenium Falcon





IIRC his hands were tied next to his head when I saw it at the theatres but that seems to be corrected on the DVD...



Neversin.

01- That Palpatine really had no knowledge of the secret to immortality. His allusion to that knowledge was merely a calculated ploy on his part to get Anakin on his side. He knew Anakin would fall for that one hook line and sinker.

02- That the secret to immortality really did remain a secret up until Qui-Gon Jinn managed to return back from the dead (cue: Yoda's revelation to Obi-Wan near the end of Episode III). The secret to immortality was always part of an ancient Jedi prophecy not meant to be deciphered by Jedi or Sith alike up until the appointed time came for it to be revealed (in this case to the Jedi)

03- That Palpatine was already "deformed" before his confrontation with Mace Windu. This explains why Palpatine did not seem perturbed in any way after the fight nor did his skin show the usual effects of scarring, whereas Anakin was clearly shown to suffer horrific burns after his showdown with Obi-Wan.

To gain support from the senate Palpatine merely used his deformed appearance in order to instigate the persecution and subsequent near-extinction of the Jedi order.

Palpatine's horrendous visage was his true appearance. The unnatural appearance of other Sith Lords, and their apprentices, bears witness to this.

Personally, I am inclined to accept the following interpretation of those facts:


01- That Palpatine really had no knowledge of the secret to immortality. His allusion to that knowledge was merely a calculated ploy on his part to get Anakin on his side. He knew Anakin would fall for that one hook line and sinker.

Agreed. I think Palpatine was completely BSing Anakin to lure him to the Dark Side.


02- That the secret to immortality really did remain a secret up until Qui-Gon Jinn managed to return back from the dead (cue: Yoda's revelation to Obi-Wan near the end of Episode III).
The secret to immortality was always part of an ancient Jedi prophecy not meant to be deciphered by Jedi or Sith alike up until the appointed time came for it to be revealed (in this case to the Jedi)

There is definitely evidence to back you up on this. In the AOTC novel, Yoda first senses Qui Gonn's presence, and notes that he shouldn't be able to return from the netherworld of The Force, but has somehow managed to do so. Throughout the subsequent novels and comics, Yoda seems to endeavor more and more to establish contact with Jinn, until he eventually is able to complete the link to him. My theory is that Qui Gonn found a way to contact Yoda, but it was weak at first. Yoda then bridged the gap to the other side. He then passes his knowledge of this onto Obi Wan, who seemingly perfects the technique. In fact, Obi Wan and Yoda eventually are able to not only commune with the deceased spirits, but they are able to surrender their corporeal forms altogether to become one with The Force. They are, likewise, able to then return from the netherworld at will.

Of course, that leaves the question of how Anakin is able to return at the end of ROTJ, when he himself never learned the technique. Well, Lucas has stated that it was actually Obi Wan who retrieved Anakin's spirit for Luke to see. At that point, both Obi Wan and Yoda could freely communicate from either side of the veil for limited times, and thus bringing another spirit forth from The Force was not a difficult task for them

03- That Palpatine was already "deformed" before his confrontation with Mace Windu. This explains why Palpatine did not seem perturbed in any way after the fight nor did his skin show the usual effects of scarring, whereas Anakin was clearly shown to suffer horrific burns after his showdown with Obi-Wan.

To gain support from the senate Palpatine merely used his deformed appearance in order to instigate the persecution and subsequent near-extinction of the Jedi order.

Palpatine's horrendous visage was his true appearance. The unnatural appearance of other Sith Lords, and their apprentices, bears witness to this.

This is, of course, open to interpretation, but I personally like the idea that this was Palpatine's true form, and that the battle with Windu simply forced him to drop the facade. On thing that I have noticed with these films is that, with the exception of Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus, all the Sith Lords are shown to have yellow eyes when fully immersed in the Dark Side. With Anakin/Vader, it is shown to come and go, but with Palpatine/Sidious it is always apparrent after his battle with Windu. Dooku/Tyrannus may have controlled the facade a little more, simply to hide his true nature to the Jedi. Darth Maul never was seen without this trait.

Didn't the Zahn books mention Luke communicating with Obi Wan at the beginning but then I think Obi Wan said that he (Luke) will soon have to be alone? That he won't be there for him anymore?

Darth Maul never was seen without this trait.

JediMaster said:

But Darth Maul wasn't exactly human though. His kind might have had yellow eyes naturally.

calldapplwondery83 said:

Yup. Obi Wan was moving further into The Force, into a higher realm of existence. His guidance was no longer needed by Luke.

Anakin also appeared to Leia several times in The Courtship of Princess Leia

JediMaster said:

Anakin appeared to Leia in The Truce at Bakura asking forgiveness, but I don't remember him appearing in The Courtship of Princess Leia.

TMPletz said:

Oops! You're right!!! My bad!!!

okay...i have a question...are all the jedi knights dead (excluding yoda and obi-won?)..

or are they just in hiding?

JediMaster said:

Back from the honeymoon and a little rusty? It's okay.

okay...i have a question...are all the jedi knights dead (excluding yoda and obi-won?)..

or are they just in hiding?

However, I did have more of a problem with Chewbacca being forced into the plot at this early stage. Why was he there? Did he have any significant role to play that merited his "cameo" appearance? So, he made Yoda's acquaintance before episodes IV-VI. Big deal. This feels like carelessness and a mistake and it certainly did not advance the story in any meaningful way.

Lucas appears to go out of his way to ensure there should be at least two degrees of separation between major/secondary characters in an all-out effort to establish some kind of link with characters that would eventually appear in episodes IV-VI, however tenuous these links may be. Unfortunately Lucas has already exhausted this narrative device on several occasions in the past, particularly where familial ties are concerned and, frankly, it has worn a little thin.

On this premise, it wouldn't have surprised me if Han Solo and Chewbacca had turned out to be distant cousins.

Then again, the above has clearly more to do with Lucas putting merchandising issues first and turning this into his commercial prime directive. After all, it is mostly from merchandising of his franchise where Lucas takes the lion's share of the profit. In a nutshell: he's expecting to sell lots of toys.

Every xvid version I have got is the work print. I can't find the one you are talking about. Can you let us know what size it is?

E.T.? As in the Spielberg film?

sosgemini said:

Most are dead, but a few still live in hiding. The whole thing with Yoda and Obi Wan reversing the "come home" signal in the Jedi Temple is something that is going to be explored in the novels, comics, TV show etc.

By the time of ANH, VERy few are left, and most have abandoned their Jedi practices out of fear of discovery.

JediMaster said:

I was dissapointed that the OUTBOUND PROJECT wasn't mentioned in any of these latest movies. It was my understanding that Palpatine(?) thinned the number of the Jedi by sending a bunch of them on a wild goose chase to another galaxy, in order to make his purge more feasible.

THIS IS MY...

Single biggest criticism of Lucas' Star Wars films.

Thank you.

giotto said:

sosgemini said:

This is an excerpt from www.supershadow.com. I can't verify too much of this, and it could very well be fan made fiction, but it's a start.

Through Darth Vader and others, Palpatine established the Galactic Empire and executed the Jedi Purge. Thousands upon thousands of Jedi were massacred. The Order of 10,000 Jedi virtually disappeared. Great Jedi were just memories. Rido Fander, one of the ten greatest Jedi ever, was no more. Chase Hintock, the Bomewright Jedi scientist of Sullest, who aided Anakin in constructing his light saber, was dead. The golden haired, yellow-skinned Jedi of Ord Mantell, Nebar Foxis, was considered the best looking male Jedi of his time. He died valiantly defending the Jedi children on Coruscant. Dethal Vangris, the prettiest Jedi throughout the Galaxy, was gone. Other Force Users were eliminated as well, such as the peaceful Sutrans, the Biotans and the powerful female Vortari, which took their name in honor of their founder, Lady Vortari.

The only Force Users to survive were those lucky enough to remain in hiding on remote worlds. We know some members of E.T.’s species, which were Sutrans, survived. However, most Force-sensitive individuals were tracked down by Grand Inquisitor Tremayne and were either made to submit their abilities to Emperor Palpatine’s rule or perish. Under Tremayne and a warrior named Lettow, a dark side elite developed. The dark side warriors who submitted to the Emperor were called the Legions of Lettow. According to the Expanded Universe, the Emperor’s Dark Side Elite included Nefta, Sa-Di, Executor Sedriss and others. Assassins with Force ability were brought into the fold as well. They were called the “Emperor’s Hands” and included such notables as Mara Jade. Each “Emperor’s Hand” was led to believe they were the sole Emperor’s Hand, giving them great self confidence. Aurra Sing the Herclu supported the Jedi Purge, seeking out her master, the fabled Dark Woman. Ironically, Aurra Sing was slain by a Jedi, Nto Boraj, who did not survive the purge himself.

Oh, and don't forget that Vergere is out there somewhere with the Yuuzhan Vong.

sosgemini said:

You can see a group of them in the corner of the screen after Amidala calls for the vote of no confidence of Chancellor Valorum in the Senate Hall in The Phantom Menace.

PurpleJedi said:

I was silently hoping for the same, but I guess that would have been too much to ask. We'll have to wait until October 25 for Timothy Zahn's Outbound Flight Project novel.

I thought Chewbacca's cameo was actually a good side note by Lucas, and ties in
with the original trilogy in quite a natural way. In episode IV at the Cantina
Obi-Wan is looking for transportation to Alderaan and gets talking to Chewbacca.
After this conversation he's convinced to go with the Millennium Falcon. Of
course after now seeing Episode III we can summise that during his conversation
with Chewbacca, Obi-Wan discovered that he knew Yoda and helped him escape from
the clone troopers and therefore could be trusted. Making the Millenium Falcon
the perfect choice of transport.

Totally agree. If anything, it gives a feeling of the interconnectedness of the fate of these characters on a greater scale. The Force is in motion to bring about a positive outcome to the conflict that has engulfed the galaxy. Even non-Force sensitive characters, such as Chewie, are still a part of a grander design, whether they are aware of it or not.

Personally, I think the clumsiest link in the prequels was having Anakin create
C-3PO. There seemed no point in it, and it would have made much more sense to
have 3PO first appear in his familiar gold form straight away as the Queen's
interpreter droid (a more natural and logical position for a protocol droid).


Again, I agree. Now C-3PO is sorta a brother to Luke and Leia!

I also think Lucas should have made Anakin a tad bit older in Episode I. I think it would have made more sense for him to have had feelings for Padme of a romantice nature if he was a hormone ridden teen, and would have also made the parrallels to Luke a little closer in nature. As it is, we don't see Anakin at the same stage of development as Luke (in VI) until AOTC, so it throws the symmetry off a bit. Of course, it would have also been a bonus to have not had annoying little Jake Lloyd in the series at all.