But can you honestly say that his turn was too easy when its balck and white to Anakin - his mother died and now he's convinced his wife will die.

Palpatine is offering him a way to stop this from happening -its the only thing he wants in the world and its being handed to him on a plate by his father-figure all he has to do is protect this guy and do as he asks.

The alternative - sit back watch his wife die and stay loyal to a bunch of weirdos who dont trust him,wont let him realise his full potential and have him sneaking around behind the Chancellors back.

I think the viewer is meant to realise that Padme is all Anakin wants - nothing more, nothing less and,as poor as the acting may be, I think this comes across in Episode 1 and 2 (2 especially) - he quite clearly doesnt mind giving up being a Jedi to be with her.

Terilicious said:

And to add to that...How can we NOT get to see Darth vader in action as Darth Vader? I wanted to see him and Obi go at it...thus so, when watching Star Wars IV their final battle seems a bit more intense.

purpledoveuk said:

But that's just it, I never saw Palpatine as a father figure outside of the politics. If I had seem them on an outing that had nothing to do with the war/politics, then maybe I can see. But their relationship seemed moreso political than familial. He just turned too easily to the Dark Side for me. At least show them TRULY disrespecting him physically maybe. Like Mace pulling hsi saber on him and threatening him if he continued his brashness that conflicted with the Jedi order.

He just seemed to easily swayed.

NeoSoulScribe said:

Purpledove,
I see what you're reaching for, but it shouldn't be that hard of a reach. The film did not do its job, bottom line! Yes, we can ASSUME the inner struggle was there, but we shouldn't have to. This movie was marketed and hyped as being the one to finally answer some burning questions and it didn't. And yeah, when the hell did Palpatine become a father figure? The only thing this movie shed light on for me was the fact that Darth Vader really wasn't that bright.

oops
[Edited 5/30/05 14:40pm]

calldapplwondery83 said:

But its a movie. The lines just could of been better written. But its simplistic script and action is proberly why so many kids and old kids love it.

Speaking of dialogue, the worst dialogue in the whole thing was the bit where Padme says, "Then love has blinded you?"

BLAH. That whole scene makes me SICK.

But I'd put a major hurting on Anakin Skywalker. I'd tear that ass up.

NeoSoulScribe said:

They do fight. Vader just doesn't have the armor on yet. Another fight after that would have been out of place.

Youre joking right????

Thats the WHOLE point of the films since Palpatine says " We'll watch your career with great interest" at the end of TPM...he encourages him, confides in him, let Anakin confide in him,lends him an ear when Anakin needs soembody to talk to...he does everything Anakin hopes the Jedi woudl do for him ...he even calls him Son - ultimately its all a big trick but he pretends to be Anakins Father-like figure (and could well be Anakins real father after all of that).

Ok he doesnt stop his pocket money but what more do you wan

calldapplwondery83 said:

Yeah, they fight minus his costume and that's what I wanted to see. Darth in action as DARTH.

Well, I don't think that it would look good at all, considering what kind of fights they did in this movie. You know, really fast, with lots of jumping and stuff.

I saw all the old triology this week, and I must say, Luke Skywalker is DA man.

A great movie this was, but seen it I havent,

Love this movie I do, and see it over and over I will,

NeoSoulScribe said:

terilicious said:

Did you guys even watch Episodes I and II?
There is PLENTY to go off of from those two, but even without them, Episode III gave many reasons for Anakin's turn. At the beginning of the film, Anakin is good but he's not a goody two-shoes. He already has issues with the Jedi, he already has a fear of loss, and he already has a lust for power.
This film simply shows how all these things finally come to a head.

1. His mistrust of the Jedi. They allowed him on the council, but did not make him a master. Anakin did not appreciate that, especially since he already has a thirst for power. The council also asked that Anakin report on the Chancellor, someone that he looks up to and respects. His arrogance just did not jive with the humility that the Jedi adhere to. The Jedi don't treat him like a "savior of the galaxy" and he misreads that as them holding him back.

2. His fear of loss. This is probably the element that is most concentrated on, and I think the film did a great job of bringing it out. He plainly tells Padme that he will not lose her like he lost his mother. In addition to that fear, he is deceived by someone that he trusts (Palpatine) into thinking that the dark side is the only way to save his wife.
I believe that guilt comes into play here too, because he blames himself for not saving his mother.

3. His lust for power. There are several scenes that touch on this, along with his arrogance.
He brags about his current abilities to Count Dooku ("My powers have doubled since we last met, Count"), he complains to Padme about not being the Jedi he should be ("I want more"), he complains to Palpatine about this as well.
He thinks that because of his abilities, it should have been he that was sent to go after Grievous instead of Obi-Wan.

Anakin did not turn to the dark side because he was a bad person. He turned because he thought that it was the only way to have everything he wanted.
Dude wanted to be a master on the Jedi Council (which requires humility and also at that time required a lack of attachment), a wife and kids, and to top it all off he wanted to be all-powerful. The dark side not only schews the line between good and evil, but also says you can have your cake and eat it too, so he rolls with the dark. This eventually caused him to become evil (especially since he loses everything that he holds dear), which is what Palpatine wanted all along.

BINGO !!!

Thank God somebody else understands. People are looking at this the wrong way round, they want to see Anakin become evil so he can join the darkside and its the otherway around...he starts on the Dark path for a reason and eventually becomes evil.

So what people see as Anakin turning to the Darkside is not at all...its just the point that he decides that this is a route he is going to pursue. Only when his evil meter is topped up enough has he made it...and thats when the eyes go yellow.

OdysseyMiles said:

Yep. Saw all 3. And again, I don't see where Palpatine was a Father Figure. Sorry. It was more of a political union moreso than a "Father" due to the fact that everything that was discussed was based on the empire. Like I said, had they shown Ani and Palps OUTSIDE of the politcal realm then I could go for that.

Also, I never saw Anakin have a thirst for power. Dude was just crazy bent on being a Jedi and being the best he could be not the LEADER of the Jedis.

To me, he turned way too easily. Also, he had no physical confrontation with any of the Jedi until he turned. Had he gotten into it physically with Mace then maybe I can see him REALLY feeling this "Dark Side" thing.

purpledoveuk said:

Gimme some, man.
I think Lucas did the absolute best he could with this story. Some people wanted the young Anakin in Episode I to be evil (stealing from Watto or talking back to his mom). The way Anakin's path has been presented is truly great when you see it all put together. He truly goes from a sweet "Charlie Bucket" kind of kid to the guy we know as Darth Vader and he does it for reasons that are not so hard to relate to. The more I see Episode III the more brilliant I think it is, and my appreciation for the entire saga increases.

Seriously????? The fact that Anakin confides in him, Palpatine confides in Anakin, he praises Anakin, encourages Anakin, tells him that he is better than anyone else...he even calls him Son - none of that seems like the type of thing a father should do for their son?

I honestly dont think you could miss Palpatine trying to weasel in like a father to a kid that desperately wants one if you've seen Episode 2 and 3.

You are watching the Prequel Star Wars arent you ?

I dont wish to be rude but perhaps you expecttaions for this film were too high and you expcted it all to be spelled out for you..you have to think a bit during this film

Anakin wanted the power to stop death...thats a pretty big and greedy power to want but thats ALL he wanted...he wnated it so much that there wasnt a big decision to make when the time came - it was just too importantto him.

He didnt turn to easily - the point you think he turned completely is simply when he protected his route to that power. If Mace had turned around and said "look I can save Padmes life too..heres how" he woudl have cut down Palpatine for being a Sith Lord...but all he knew was that Palpatine apparently had the secret he needed....so he turned on Mace to protect his interest

As Lucas says "Anakins relationship with Palpatine starts to eclipse his relationship with Obi Wan, but he doesnt really have a clear devotion to either, his belief system is still open. H estill isnt exactly set in his devotion to the Jedi or Palpatine. He is looking to see how he can get more power"

Now THAT has to be clear to everyone whos seen Episodes 2 and 3 hasnt it?

This whole power thing is explained by Yoda in his typical style in Episode 3..

"Rejoice for those around you who transform into teh Force, mourn them do not. Miss them do not. Attachment leads to jealousy. The shadow of greed, that is"

"Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose"

Basically what he's saying is that everyone dies eventually...deal with it, dont try and stop it because the second you do you are going to a place that is impossible and will just send you looking for more and more power until you achieve it...and as that impossible you will never have enough power!!!

purpledoveuk said:

And that's exactly it. I saw him as a weasel and I think we ALL saw him as a weasel and couldn't believe that Ani was that damn stupid not to see. That's why it didn't work for me. His paternal ways seemed contrived and stoic. Nothing like what I would deem a father figure. But hey, if it works for you, have fun. LOL!

purpledoveuk said:

No, my expectations weren't high, just my viewing capabilities and taste probably. But I see you're making assumptions as to what Ani would have done if Mace had said he could save Paddy's life. Where do you get that from? You're making up your own film now and that's not what you're supposed to do when watching a narrative. And again, one example of him wanting to save life doesn't strike me as having a THIRST for power. It's a helluva power, but wouldn't we ALL like to have that power? Doesn't make us POWER TRIPPERS, does it? Nope.

NeoSoulScribe said:

It does for Anakin. He was definitely a "power tripper". He's been wanting to be all-powerful ever since his mother died. He also planned to usurp The Emperor once he gained enough power. Such is the way of the Sith. The movie's about him and the choices he made, not about us and what we would or would not do.

purpledoveuk said:

I think you nailed it. He had an obsession with Padme from day one. He was attached to her, but the Jedi also treated him like a stepchild from day one. The only Jedi he truly respected as an authority figure was Qui-Gon.

I dont know,maybe I am but I dont think Im assuming....Im just saying that Anakin wanted and needed one thing nad there was only One way to get it.

If the Jedi had been able to help him MAYBE he would have taken a different route...after all he was pretty miffed that Palpatine was Sith and did hand him over. The reason he made that choice on the spur of the moment was because he saw his only chance about to die....I dont think he necessaily 'chose' to start doen the Dark path (not a choice as we would think of it)...because there was no choice in his mind.

Anyway, its not worth arguing over - thats art I suppose, like music everyone gets different things from it

Just saw it Saturday. Kicked ass.

In true Star ars fashion...when Anakin turned and how easily depends on your point of view.

I think a lot of people see it as Anakin turned in Palpatines office - wham bam thank you mam Im a Darksider now - for me that was just when he started the journey, his first wrong choice (in the viewers eyes...not his)...he could have been turned back under the right circumstances

When he actually fully turned to the Darkside for me (or when he got enveloped) was the point at which there was no going back - that was on Mustafar when his eyes changed and he decided to choke his wife...then he was trully lost

purpledoveuk said:

I think he lost it when he was killing the children.

doctamario said:

Wasn't that the most drastic moment in ANY Star Wars movie? I mean, by far? I didn't think that Lucas would be brave enough.


Dark Site edit:
[Edited 6/2/05 2:32am]

OdysseyMiles said:

Ok, you are correct. I feel you on that one now. I do recall him saying he wanted to take over the Empire.