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Reply #90 posted 05/25/05 9:34am

JediMaster

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TheBatman said:

Anxiety said:



this bugged me at first too, but after seeing episode iii, it makes sense. alec guinness portrayed obi wan when obi wan was struck down by vader. hayden christensen portrayed anakin when he was struck down by obi wan. clearly lucas wants us to see anakin - the 'good' anakin - as being personified as the way he looked before the incident on mustafar.

i don't know if i 100% LIKE lucas' choice - i'm not thrilled with his whole revisionist spin on his films, but i guess it's his prerogative - but i can understand it. it would have been nice to leave the scene as it was, to symbolize that the older vader had found peace, rather than to find peace in his afterlife he'd have to revert to a younger version of himself.

If I was Luke, I would've done a double take and thought... who is that???

Luke never would've known what Anakin looked like when he turned into Vader.


I agree, although it could be argued that Luke knew who he was on a spiritual level.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #91 posted 05/25/05 9:37am

JediMaster

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namepeace said:


Yes, but he is referring to Luke Skywalker's, quite specifically, and is doing so in a rather mocking tone. Vader is a Sith, and has a lightsaber throughout the entire original trilogy (and before you try to say that George didn't come up with the Sith concept back then, it was in the earliest drafts of the script, and the novelization of the first film refers to Vader as "The Dark Lord of the Sith"). Also, keep in mind that the Sith were an offshoot of the Jedi. Many of the trappings of the Sith are still referred to as the "Jedi arts" (Qui Gonn says that Darth Maul has been well trained in the Jedi Arts, and General Grievous also makes a statement that he was trained in them by Dooku/Darth Tyranus)


Good points.

Palpatine is teasing Luke in Ep VI, because Luke is not fully aware of the emperor's abilities or history.

Also, the Sith concept does go back to the early novelizations/comics/promotions of the very first movie. Hell, I recall hearing (or reading) about how Vader got knocked into a volcano almost 30 years ago.

The novels for IV-VI were actually full of little tidbits not included in the movie, e,g., when the Emperor points out to Luke that he knows Yoda trained him.



nod Many of the points touched on in the prequel trilogy were things alluded to from the early days of SW. Like you, I've known for years that Vader was knocked into a volcano by Obi Wan, etc. Some of these things WERE mapped out by Lucas a long time ago, even if he only recently wrote the scripts.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #92 posted 05/25/05 1:57pm

Ashtheking

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that movie fucking rocked! best star wars since empire, maybe even better! if you didnt like it, your not a star wars fan!
In my own way, I am the king. Hail to the king, baby!! chainsaw
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Reply #93 posted 05/25/05 2:48pm

purpledoveuk

abierman said:

7salles said:

I didnt said the emperor did this, but why he made vader so slow and somekind weak? grivous were much stronger and faster physically than vader! What i said is that the emperor did built vader in a suit that made him weaker than he could be. Imagine grivous with the force power of vader, he would be invincible.



The emperor uses Vader as a pawn, knowing that the force in Anakin’s children would even be bigger, especially Luke. Anakin’s evilness is a tool for Sidious but it won’t bring him victory in the galaxy. Having Luke & Leia out there gives Sidious hope for victory in the future, knowing that Vader will lead Luke & Leia to him. Leia is Sidious’s assumed lead to victory over the rebellions, luke will rid him from Vader. We all know how it ended in ROTJ, Sidious’ attempt to lead Luke to the dark side, fails. This is also due to remainders of Anakin’s feelings for his children.
There are no ties linked to Grievous that are useful for Sidious.



Theres reading between the lines and then theres reading too much into things.

Vader being big and hulking wasnt a trick - look at it this way, Vader is like a Jugernaut compared to Grevious and,if you want more proof, Vader managed to last nearly 25 years in his big black suit...whereas Grevious didnt.

And Grevious cant use the force either
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Reply #94 posted 05/25/05 5:39pm

SquirrelMeat

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JediMaster said:

SquirrelMeat said:



Or your assumption?! wink

No, not my assumption. I'm pretty well versed in SW lore.

The films (and the continuity) are flawed. It was inevitable, as Lucas was making it up as he went. He admits himself that he didn't have the story to the ep 1, 2 and 3 at the time he made 4, 5 and 6. In fact, its quite obvious he didn't have the story of 5 and 6 ready when he made 4. He simply had his 1973 notes, and a rough idea about backgrounds.

Sure, of course he did. I've never disputed that.

Be it continuity, or simply hard to explain answers, my funnies I would love George to answer are.....

Why does Anakins ghost now appear as Hayden, rather than Sebastian Shaw, yet Obi’s remains as Sir Alex rather that being Ewan.

I agree. That bugs the crap outta me.

Does vader not click when he finds out that a Skywalker, strong with the force, blows up the deathstar?

Umm, yes, he does. This is explained in the opening crawl of ESB, when it clearly says that Vader is obsessed with finding Luke. Obviously, he had found it out, but was keeping it a secret from the Emperor (who found out about it on his own, and let Vader know in a very covert way during his holographic communication to him on his star destroyer. Vader feigns ignorance, but we know from the opening crawl that Vader was WELL aware that the Force strong rebel who blew up the first Death Star was actually his son).

Luke clearly asks Leia, “tell me about your mother, I mean, your real mother”. They both know she is adopted. So how does she remember Padme? Her use of the force is made up by some fans for convenience.

Where does it say that Leia knew she was adopted?? Yes, Luke knows, so he is thinking in terms of her "real mother", but to Leia, Queen Organa WAS her mother. Even in terms of her thinking of Padme, it still makes sense, since she describes it as "vague impressions".

And if leia has force powers, Vader couldn’t sense it a foot away from her?

Who says he didn't? Plenty of people have Force potential, but no training. He had no idea that she was his daughter, so he had no interest in turning her. She was to be executed by the Empire, so she would have met the same fate as all the Jedi Vader had helped slaughter. Her having Force potential is irrelevant to Vader, at this point. Once he knows she is his daughter, THEN her abilities become of interest to him

So it took 18 years to build the first death star, and 6 months to build the second?

First off, the Death Star witnessed in ROTS is the prototype from Maw Installation (actually, the "great weapon" of the Seperatists, taken to the Maw to be tested and completed). The Death Star that was seen in ANH is the finished model, after all the kinks were worked out (do you really think that a battle station that was the size of a moon wouldn't have some design flaws to overcome?)

Second, you are incorrect on the timeline. ROTJ happens about five years after the events of ANH, and there is nothing to suggest that the Empire didn't already have the second Death Star under construction before the first was destroyed (its been hinted at in the novels that the Emperor actually intended to have a full fleet of them, to send to all the major systems. His plan was to rule the galaxy completely through fear).

A Lightsaber. In the emperors words, is “the weapon of a jedi knight”. Err, no, sith too now.

Yes, but he is referring to Luke Skywalker's, quite specifically, and is doing so in a rather mocking tone. Vader is a Sith, and has a lightsaber throughout the entire original trilogy (and before you try to say that George didn't come up with the Sith concept back then, it was in the earliest drafts of the script, and the novelization of the first film refers to Vader as "The Dark Lord of the Sith"). Also, keep in mind that the Sith were an offshoot of the Jedi. Many of the trappings of the Sith are still referred to as the "Jedi arts" (Qui Gonn says that Darth Maul has been well trained in the Jedi Arts, and General Grievous also makes a statement that he was trained in them by Dooku/Darth Tyranus)

Obi spends a hell of a lot of time with R2D2, not to remember him 18 years later.

Agreed, but keep in mind that the astromech droids pretty much all look the same. I think it didn't click with Obi Wan that R2 was an old friend until after he received the message from Leia (he's also puzzling out the whole thing of being told that the droid is his property, which R2 never was. R2 tells this to 3PO and Luke to give him the right to seek out his "master").

Yoda clearly spells out “No, there is another”. Whichever way you look at it, Obi should have known.

Again, I think Obi Wan just wasn't thinking. He had been so focused on Luke, that Leia's importance fell by the wayside.

Why didn't R2 tell 3PO that they have been to Tatooine not once, but twice and that 3PO was actually made there?

Why would he??? 3PO is a friggin' blabbermouth, while R2 is much smarter and more discreet. The whole reason that 3PO's memory is wiped, but R2's isn't, is due to this fact. C3PO is on a need-to-know basis only.

C3PO can power his head alone in Clones, but loses the ability by Empire Strikes back?

I agree with this one. I'll chalk it up to years of corrossion. This is one of the few things you've sited that I believe to be a genuine inconsistency in continuity.

And what did happen to R2’s handy rocket boosters and jumping ability in episode 4, 5, and 6?

The official explanation (and I think its a pretty stupid one) is that the boosters simply broke over time, and none of his later masters bothered to get it fixed, due to the expensive nature of the parts. Apparently, R2's warranty had expired (believe it or not, I'm not making this up. This was the explanation given on the official site)!!!

Leia snogs her brother! Are you sick?

lol

It's gross, but they don't KNOW they are siblings. Not an error, just something icky.

There are loads more, but thats for another day!

I know the typical EU answers to most of these, but lets be honest. They are all made up!


It's a fictional story. All of it is "made up"!!


Be careful. Your "star wars lore" contains a lot of EU. Thats not lore, thats simply made up. It will confuse people if you try to pass EU interpretation as anymore than what it is...fan fiction with a legal backing.

The Death Star is a prime example. GL interviews clearly state what he believes the timeline to be. EU timeline differs considerably.

There is every reason to believe in the the GL death star timeline. It states it in the opening crawl of ROTJ!

"Little does Luke know that the
GALACTIC EMPIRE has secretly
begun construction on a new
armored space station even
more powerful than the first
dreaded Death Star."

Has, not did.

MAW and Tarkin station and all that stuff is simply EU. Not real in the GL mindset.

The EU stuff is simply redundant and fantasy.
[Edited 5/25/05 17:46pm]
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Reply #95 posted 05/25/05 6:04pm

TMPletz

SquirrelMeat said:

JediMaster said:



Be careful. Your "star wars lore" contains a lot of EU. Thats not lore, thats simply made up. It will confuse people if you try to pass EU interpretation as anymore than what it is...fan fiction with a legal backing.

The Death Star is a prime example. GL interviews clearly state what he believes the timeline to be. EU timeline differs considerably.

There is every reason to believe in the the GL death star timeline. It states it in the opening crawl of ROTJ!

"Little does Luke know that the
GALACTIC EMPIRE has secretly
begun construction on a new
armored space station even
more powerful than the first
dreaded Death Star."

Has, not did.

MAW and Tarkin station and all that stuff is simply EU. Not real in the GL mindset.

The EU stuff is simply redundant and fantasy.
[Edited 5/25/05 17:46pm]

Not really. The Star Wars EU is as real as the stuff you see in the movies. However, if George decides he wants to change something from the EU to fit one of the movies, he does. An example of this would be the origin of Boba Fett. He did take the name and planet of Coruscant right out of the EU, though. Lucas Books has a tight rein on what happens in the EU. It is not "simply redundant and fantasy."

Now if you look at the Star TREK EU, Paramount has stated publicly that if you don't see it on the big or small screen, it didn't happen. I stopped buying Trek books after hearing that one. Lucas knows better than to screw his fan base like that, so he's got that area covered.
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Reply #96 posted 05/25/05 7:42pm

PurpleJedi

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JediMaster said:


To me, the worst performance of the entire series is Carrie Fisher's in ROTJ.


You realize, of course, that this is heresy?

Ban you from Jedi Council, we will!
By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory!
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Reply #97 posted 05/25/05 7:47pm

TMPletz

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Reply #98 posted 05/25/05 10:39pm

gvnblkr

This is for JediMaster since his sig is actually one of the points of contention I have.

1. Although Yoda is credited with the quote in your sig, we've all just learned that only Sith deal in absolutes.
hrmph

2. I haven't read all the books, but how did Leia become a princess?

3. BRITISH ACCENTS!!! What happened to Vader's in III? Also, after ANH, Leia's became this spunkyeast coast flavored dialect.


4. Did R2 "forget" all those neat things he could do in the first three episodes. Shit, all the technology for that matter got worse because GL's got better.laser


I'm sure there's more ranting to come, but that's all I got for now.
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Reply #99 posted 05/26/05 6:18am

JediMaster

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SquirrelMeat said:



Be careful. Your "star wars lore" contains a lot of EU. Thats not lore, thats simply made up. It will confuse people if you try to pass EU interpretation as anymore than what it is...fan fiction with a legal backing.

Again, it's fantasy. It's all "made up". EU interprepation is considered Lucas cannon, unless one of the films contradicts it (and even then, there is usually an explanation given, such as Boba Fett's various origins). Most of the info I've provided came from the official site, not EU books.

The Death Star is a prime example. GL interviews clearly state what he believes the timeline to be. EU timeline differs considerably.

Well, in the interviews I've read, Lucas has always stated that ROTJ occurs at least four years after ANH, which is consistent with EU. I don't know where you got the "six months" thing from, but that doesn't jive with what I've read and heard. Lucas talked about ESB being three to four years after a ANH during the promotional jaunt for the Special Editions, so even if ROTJ occurred IMMEDIATELY after, then your timeline doesn't work.


There is every reason to believe in the the GL death star timeline. It states it in the opening crawl of ROTJ!

"Little does Luke know that the
GALACTIC EMPIRE has secretly
begun construction on a new
armored space station even
more powerful than the first
dreaded Death Star."

Has, not did.

"Has"...yeah, how does this prove your point? The could have begun work on it twenty years ago, for all we know. It doesn't give a timeline. The Empire "has" begun construction, at some point. When is not clear.

MAW and Tarkin station and all that stuff is simply EU. Not real in the GL mindset.



The EU stuff is simply redundant and fantasy.

Not true, since GL has incorporated EU stuff into the films. Coruscant was first introduced in the Zahn "Thrawn" trilogy, and Dash Rendar's ship from Shadows of the Empire was featured in the Special Edition of ANH (Lucas himself stated that the ship was Rendar's). Lucas's OFFICIAL STANCE regarding the EU is that its cannonical, so long as it doesn't contradict the films. Hell, they hired an actress to "play" Mara Jade, even though she doesn't appear in a single friggin' film.

Again, it's all "fantasy". To try to say that its not valid since its not on film is silly, especially since Lucas himself endorses it.


jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #100 posted 05/26/05 6:19am

JediMaster

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TMPletz said:




Not really. The Star Wars EU is as real as the stuff you see in the movies. However, if George decides he wants to change something from the EU to fit one of the movies, he does. An example of this would be the origin of Boba Fett. He did take the name and planet of Coruscant right out of the EU, though. Lucas Books has a tight rein on what happens in the EU. It is not "simply redundant and fantasy."

Now if you look at the Star TREK EU, Paramount has stated publicly that if you don't see it on the big or small screen, it didn't happen. I stopped buying Trek books after hearing that one. Lucas knows better than to screw his fan base like that, so he's got that area covered.


TOTALLY agree.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #101 posted 05/26/05 6:38am

JediMaster

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gvnblkr said:

This is for JediMaster since his sig is actually one of the points of contention I have.

1. Although Yoda is credited with the quote in your sig, we've all just learned that only Sith deal in absolutes.
hrmph

Absolutes of loyalty, not of training and philosphy.Obi Wan's point is that only someone who is evil, or incredibly misguided, makes a statement that you have to be on his side, even if he's wrong. It's a context issue.

2. I haven't read all the books, but how did Leia become a princess?

Bail Organa is a senator, but he comes from a "royal" family on Alderaan. Essentially, they're kinda like the royal family in England today, the only difference is that Organa (and later Leia) also have taken elected posts in the Galactic Senate. The royal titles are honorifics, and don't hold any real power anymore.

3. BRITISH ACCENTS!!! What happened to Vader's in III? Also, after ANH, Leia's became this spunkyeast coast flavored dialect.

Ummm, Vader never had an English accent. James Earl Jones has always done his voice, and has never used anything other than an American accent. He is very well-annunicated, but it isn't British

As for Leia's, you'll notice it dissapears halfway through ANH. the official explanation is that the accent is an affectation she learned from tutors on Alderaan. She only uses it in certain circumstances, to appear more regal. When around her friends in the Rebel Alliance, she drops the affectation (in ANH, it pretty much is only used when dealing with Vader and Tarkin, and then is dropped when she meets up with Han & Luke)

Of course, the reality of the situation is that, in real life, she picked up the accent when she was around Cushing and the other British actors, and then dropped it when she was filming the scenes with Ford and Hammil. She was probably unaware she was even doing it.



4. Did R2 "forget" all those neat things he could do in the first three episodes. Shit, all the technology for that matter got worse because GL's got better.laser

No, he didn't forget. If you notice, ALL the technology got crummier, because only The Empire allowed themselves to upgrade their technology. Lucas was VERY deliberate in showing a much "sleeker" society in the prequels. The galaxy is suppossed to be in decline under Palpatine's rule. R2's owners didn't have the resources to keep up with all of his maintenance, due to the fact they were trying to cobble together a Rebel Alliance. He still has SOME of his gadgets and whatnot, but not all, in the OT.

For that matter, look at the Alliance. Their ships are run-down, and put together with whatever they can. The Empire, on the other hand, has cutting edge ships that look pristine.



I'm sure there's more ranting to come, but that's all I got for now.




---
[Edited 5/26/05 6:40am]
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #102 posted 05/26/05 7:13am

JediMaster

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PurpleJedi said:

JediMaster said:


To me, the worst performance of the entire series is Carrie Fisher's in ROTJ.


You realize, of course, that this is heresy?

Ban you from Jedi Council, we will!


Sorry, but it's true. She is so coked out of her gourd it ain't funny. The whole scene between her & Han in the Ewok village? "Just hold me"...oh man! Sooooo bad (and it ain't just the dialogue).

She is redeemed in that movie by her slave outfit, which was the sexual awakening of many a young man!
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #103 posted 05/26/05 8:36am

Anxiety

JediMaster said:

PurpleJedi said:



You realize, of course, that this is heresy?

Ban you from Jedi Council, we will!


Sorry, but it's true. She is so coked out of her gourd it ain't funny. The whole scene between her & Han in the Ewok village? "Just hold me"...oh man! Sooooo bad (and it ain't just the dialogue).

She is redeemed in that movie by her slave outfit, which was the sexual awakening of many a young man!


awww, come on. she wasn't THAT bad in ROTJ...she just had to deal with some schlocky dialogue, like everyone else in those movies had to. natalie portman wasn't exactly brilliant in any of the prequels, but i've seen her in other stuff where she's just fine as an actress. it's gotta be hard to work with lucas's crummy dialogue.

THAT said, if you wanna see a truly coked-out princess leia, you gotta see the star wars holiday special. she can hardly stand up in that one, eeg.
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Reply #104 posted 05/26/05 8:41am

Neversin

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TheBatman said:

If I was Luke, I would've done a double take and thought... who is that???

Luke never would've known what Anakin looked like when he turned into Vader.

I bet he would be frustrated too when he saw this guy that's supposed to be his father and looks about 15 years younger than himself...

Neversin.
O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
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Reply #105 posted 05/26/05 9:15am

JediMaster

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Anxiety said:

JediMaster said:



Sorry, but it's true. She is so coked out of her gourd it ain't funny. The whole scene between her & Han in the Ewok village? "Just hold me"...oh man! Sooooo bad (and it ain't just the dialogue).

She is redeemed in that movie by her slave outfit, which was the sexual awakening of many a young man!


awww, come on. she wasn't THAT bad in ROTJ...she just had to deal with some schlocky dialogue, like everyone else in those movies had to. natalie portman wasn't exactly brilliant in any of the prequels, but i've seen her in other stuff where she's just fine as an actress. it's gotta be hard to work with lucas's crummy dialogue.

THAT said, if you wanna see a truly coked-out princess leia, you gotta see the star wars holiday special. she can hardly stand up in that one, eeg.


Oh, she's definitely coked out in the Holiday Special, but its obvious to me that she is almost as lit up in ROTJ. She manages in the other two films to do just fine, even when delivering hokey dialogue, but she just can't pull it off in ROTJ.

As for Portman, she's just one of those actors who is only as good as their director. Lucas is a visual director, not one to pull great performances out of people. Portman at least fits the visual thing!
[Edited 5/26/05 9:15am]
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #106 posted 05/26/05 11:49am

giotto

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I have a problem with Palpatine suddenly displaying ridiculous fencing lightsaber skills against his Jedi assailants.

In a recent interview, Iain Mc Diarmid confessed he thought this was a tad unnecessary since he had always believed the Emperor could have succeeded in being as cunning and as devious by "using his brain", instead of resorting to conventional violence.

I tend to agree with Mc Diarmid on this.


.
"You don't frighten us, English pig dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, sons of a silly person."
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Reply #107 posted 05/26/05 12:52pm

namepeace

giotto said:

I have a problem with Palpatine suddenly displaying ridiculous fencing lightsaber skills against his Jedi assailants.

In a recent interview, Iain Mc Diarmid confessed he thought this was a tad unnecessary since he had always believed the Emperor could have succeeded in being as cunning and as devious by "using his brain", instead of resorting to conventional violence.

I tend to agree with Mc Diarmid on this.


.


He has to be able to get nice with his saber because 1) he is a Sith Lord, and 2) he knew there was a chance the outnumbered Jedi would discover his identity and come after him.

And it's not like Sidious was great. Sure, he did away with 3 Jedi in 30 seconds. But he lost to Windu and even tried to run from Yoda before Yoda got the better of him ('til the very end).
Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #108 posted 05/26/05 12:52pm

JediMaster

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giotto said:

I have a problem with Palpatine suddenly displaying ridiculous fencing lightsaber skills against his Jedi assailants.

In a recent interview, Iain Mc Diarmid confessed he thought this was a tad unnecessary since he had always believed the Emperor could have succeeded in being as cunning and as devious by "using his brain", instead of resorting to conventional violence.

I tend to agree with Mc Diarmid on this.


.


Why wouldn't he have lightsaber skills? It would be as much a part of Sith training as it was of the Jedi.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #109 posted 05/26/05 1:42pm

OdysseyMiles

namepeace said:

giotto said:

I have a problem with Palpatine suddenly displaying ridiculous fencing lightsaber skills against his Jedi assailants.

In a recent interview, Iain Mc Diarmid confessed he thought this was a tad unnecessary since he had always believed the Emperor could have succeeded in being as cunning and as devious by "using his brain", instead of resorting to conventional violence.

I tend to agree with Mc Diarmid on this.


.


He has to be able to get nice with his saber because 1) he is a Sith Lord, and 2) he knew there was a chance the outnumbered Jedi would discover his identity and come after him.

And it's not like Sidious was great. Sure, he did away with 3 Jedi in 30 seconds. But he lost to Windu and even tried to run from Yoda before Yoda got the better of him ('til the very end).


That loss to Windu is debatable I think. Many folks believe that Sidious was toying with Mace until Anakin arrived (as if he knew Anakin was coming).
There have been some pretty interesting arguments from both sides.
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Reply #110 posted 05/26/05 1:44pm

JediMaster

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OdysseyMiles said:

namepeace said:



He has to be able to get nice with his saber because 1) he is a Sith Lord, and 2) he knew there was a chance the outnumbered Jedi would discover his identity and come after him.

And it's not like Sidious was great. Sure, he did away with 3 Jedi in 30 seconds. But he lost to Windu and even tried to run from Yoda before Yoda got the better of him ('til the very end).


That loss to Windu is debatable I think. Many folks believe that Sidious was toying with Mace until Anakin arrived (as if he knew Anakin was coming).
There have been some pretty interesting arguments from both sides.


I LOVE it that Lucas left so many things open to interpretation with this film! Did Sidious win his fight with Windu? With Yoda? These things can be debated, and it just adds another layer to the whole story!
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #111 posted 05/26/05 1:54pm

OdysseyMiles

JediMaster said:

OdysseyMiles said:



That loss to Windu is debatable I think. Many folks believe that Sidious was toying with Mace until Anakin arrived (as if he knew Anakin was coming).
There have been some pretty interesting arguments from both sides.


I LOVE it that Lucas left so many things open to interpretation with this film! Did Sidious win his fight with Windu? With Yoda? These things can be debated, and it just adds another layer to the whole story!


Yeah, there's a great debate on theforce.net about Sidious's appearance and whether it was an injury from the lightening being deflected by Mace or his true appearance revealed because of the lightening.
Based on the film and quotes from Ian McDiarmid and Lucas, I feel that the deformed Sidious is his true appearance and not an injury.
That scene was great nonetheless.
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Reply #112 posted 05/26/05 1:57pm

namepeace

JediMaster said:

OdysseyMiles said:



That loss to Windu is debatable I think. Many folks believe that Sidious was toying with Mace until Anakin arrived (as if he knew Anakin was coming).
There have been some pretty interesting arguments from both sides.


I LOVE it that Lucas left so many things open to interpretation with this film! Did Sidious win his fight with Windu? With Yoda? These things can be debated, and it just adds another layer to the whole story!


These things crossed my mind as well. I give the Jedi the benefit of the doubt on that one. Mace's powers were second only to Yoda's. That was apparent in the Clone Wars series. And Yoda, well, he just ran out of time.
Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #113 posted 05/26/05 3:27pm

doctormcmeekle

What I never understood was how Vader defeated Sidious in ROTJ. Didn't he just pick him up and throw him over the safety railings? Surely he should have been harder to kill than that?

confused
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Reply #114 posted 05/26/05 3:47pm

TMPletz

doctormcmeekle said:

What I never understood was how Vader defeated Sidious in ROTJ. Didn't he just pick him up and throw him over the safety railings? Surely he should have been harder to kill than that?

confused

Palpatine was totally intent on killing Luke at that point and didn't even see it coming. Vader took him by suprise and tossed him into the shaft without too much of a struggle. The only way Palpatine fought back in this brief time was through his force-lightning since he was already using it on Luke. Thta's why Vader was doomed after this since his circuits were pretty much fried.
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Reply #115 posted 05/26/05 3:56pm

doctormcmeekle

TMPletz said:

doctormcmeekle said:

What I never understood was how Vader defeated Sidious in ROTJ. Didn't he just pick him up and throw him over the safety railings? Surely he should have been harder to kill than that?

confused

Palpatine was totally intent on killing Luke at that point and didn't even see it coming. Vader took him by suprise and tossed him into the shaft without too much of a struggle. The only way Palpatine fought back in this brief time was through his force-lightning since he was already using it on Luke. Thta's why Vader was doomed after this since his circuits were pretty much fried.

But several fall great distances and seem to be okay. Luke does it at the end of ESB and does a sideways-thing into a hole in the side of the shaft. Sidious seems to explode?!? eek

And don't say Vader took Sidious from behind, and Sidious didn't see him coming. It makes me go all funny. confused
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Reply #116 posted 05/26/05 4:09pm

TMPletz

doctormcmeekle said:

TMPletz said:


Palpatine was totally intent on killing Luke at that point and didn't even see it coming. Vader took him by suprise and tossed him into the shaft without too much of a struggle. The only way Palpatine fought back in this brief time was through his force-lightning since he was already using it on Luke. Thta's why Vader was doomed after this since his circuits were pretty much fried.

But several fall great distances and seem to be okay. Luke does it at the end of ESB and does a sideways-thing into a hole in the side of the shaft. Sidious seems to explode?!? eek

And don't say Vader took Sidious from behind, and Sidious didn't see him coming. It makes me go all funny. confused

Luke got sucked into that shaft when falling as a means of waste disposal or something similar. He didn't fall into there by the use of any skill.

The Emperor exploded as a result of being thrown into the shaft which according to the Star Wars Databank lead directly into the reactor core. Many people thought it was a dark-side force power that made Sith explode like that until they saw Darth Maul die and there was no explosion for him. Likewise, Dooku did not explode when his head was cut off.

And don't say Vader took Sidious from behind, and Sidious didn't see him coming. It makes me go all funny. confused

It's been a long time since i read the novel for ROTJ, but that very well could be the case. I'd have to check again, but I'm at work right now so that's not possible. razz
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Reply #117 posted 05/26/05 4:15pm

doctormcmeekle

TMPletz said:

Luke got sucked...shaft...The Emperor exploded...head

eek

/

Seriously, thanks for the reply, just seemed rather lame way to end it all.

smile
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Reply #118 posted 05/26/05 4:23pm

TMPletz

doctormcmeekle said:

TMPletz said:

Luke got sucked...shaft...The Emperor exploded...head

eek

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Reply #119 posted 05/27/05 2:23am

calldapplwonde
ry83

I bet Lucas could learn a thing or two about his own movies through this site!

Anyway, what is this "EU" you were talking about?
And all those books that are out there, the Zahn books and the especially the comics, which AFAIK play thousands of years before the movies, how much is Lucas involved in those?
Any recommendation about sites dealing with this?
Any chance to see this Christmas special? wink

BTW, reading this is a lot of fun. Hope this goes on!
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Forums > General Discussion > The Official "I Just Saw STAR WARS Thread", Episode II: Talkin' More Sith Than A Bit