BorisFishpaw said:

Actually, the script outlines you shared with me a while back would really work well with the novels. In fact, the books would work quite well as backstory for the final trilogy. They don't seem to contradict what you've told me at all.

Of course, the biggest mystery to me is, why did George leave some of the things he did in ROTS, and go to the trouble of changing Anakin's ghost at the end of ROTJ, if he had no intention of doing the final three? Maybe he was just leaving the door open for changing his mind later, but I have so many suspicions.

On a side note, I also have it on good authority that the deleted 'Yoda arriving
on Dagobah' scene will be reinstated into the film for the DVD release in Nov/Dec.

JediMaster said:

Yeah, the changing of Anakin's ghost in ROTJ was the one thing that really made
me think that Lucas was seriously considering making the final trilogy. As well
as retaining the (subtle) hint by Palpatine about Anakin's true origin in ROTS.

On a side note, I also have it on good authority that the deleted 'Yoda arriving
on Dagobah' scene will be reinstated into the film for the DVD release in Nov/Dec.

By the way, for all you fans of the DARTH TATER toy, here's a new ally for him!



(Note that he has a potato peeler instead of a blaster!)
[Edited 6/13/05 6:07am]

There was LOADS of stuff edited out of the final version of Episode III,
so hopefully there should be tons of deleted scenes in the extras as well.

There's been at least one or two deleted scenes in each movie that I felt
should have been reinstated into the main film, but with Revenge Of The
Sith there's several.

For me, I don't really mind about seeing Yoda arrive on Dagobah. One scene
that should have been left in IMO was the meeting between Padme and the
other concerned senators in Bail Organas office prior to Padme's conversation
with Anakin about the republic becoming the very thing they were fighting
against.

BorisFishpaw said:

Agreed. I think it adds some depth, and certainly sets up Organa's place in the formation of the Rebel Alliance alongside Mon Mothma.

purpledoveuk said:

Oh I can assure you there WAS at least an outline of a story for Episodes 7-9.
Lucas himself mentioned the 9 film 'trilogy of trilogies' idea way back when
he was making Empire & Jedi. It's only recently that he's had a memory lapse
and decided to deny the final trilogy's existance. He was even considering
relenting his decision to not make them at one point during pre-production
on Episode II.

don't be so sure of this technological terror lucas has created, the ability to say a sentence to create marketing mystique far underweighs the actual mapping out of a saga which he obviously didn't really do... I find your abundance of faith disturbing.

ufoclub said:

"...which he obviously didn't do..."? Based on what? How can you be so sure that he didn't map out his saga? Because of changes to references in the orginal trilogies novels? Most of that stuff IS fairly consistent with the PT, and the few changes only prove that Lucas changed his mind about a few plot points. As someone who has been working on a storyline for the past 15 years myself, I can tell you that it would be unthinkable if he DIDN'T change a few plot points and characters along the way. My story's basic structure has remained, but I've changed oodles of characters, backstories, plot points, etc, over the years.

I tend to agree with Boris, since he's proven himself time and again to have solid information. He knew plot points for Episode III long before they were leaked to theforce.net or any other source, so I find him entirely credible.

papaa said:

I thought Chewbacca's cameo was actually a good side note by Lucas, and ties in
with the original trilogy in quite a natural way. In episode IV at the Cantina
Obi-Wan is looking for transportation to Alderaan and gets talking to Chewbacca.
After this conversation he's convinced to go with the Millennium Falcon. Of
course after now seeing Episode III we can summise that during his conversation
with Chewbacca, Obi-Wan discovered that he knew Yoda and helped him escape from
the clone troopers and therefore could be trusted. Making the Millenium Falcon
the perfect choice of transport.

Personally, I think the clumsiest link in the prequels was having Anakin create
C-3PO. There seemed no point in it, and it would have made much more sense to
have 3PO first appear in his familiar gold form straight away as the Queen's
interpreter droid (a more natural and logical position for a protocol droid).

Lucas is destroying the wonderful epic Star Wars universe he loosed in 1977. Chewbacca seemed like he was of a volitile race that would have no concerns about Jedi, politics, or any such shit. He was the sidekick of a slimy mercenary who came from an enslaved race. These beings should not know each other, should not know each other's cultures or concrns, etc. That was what was so wonderful originally, that this seemed as vast as real life, a reflection of the way real history and current events are so much larger than the individuals. That is why more people (not fandom people) were into the first star wars movie than any since. It was incredible. As a kid, I, and many others, loved the Star Wars fictional universe more than reality, hence repeat viewings, and the film playing in the theatres for more than a year on its original run.

ufoclub said:

I think the reason why most people were into the first one, is because it was visually groundbreaking.

I don't think the whole first movie comes close to the Obi Wan/Anakin duell in Ep3 in terms of drama. Nice movie of course, but dramatic? Maybe the scene when you first see Vader.

Okay... Star Wars is episode 4, even though it didn't say that in the theatre when I saw it 4 times in 1977, okay Vadar is Lukes father, even though Obi-Wan said Vadar murdered him in Star Wars (and in the novel which was ghost written by Alan Dean foster)... okay, even though the first drafts of Star Wars vaguely resemble anything that ever made it to the screen in any of the movies... yeah Lucas isn't making a lot up as he goes along... midichlorians....

I'm not saying that he isn't coming up with stuff as he goes. I just think he has a skeletal structure in mind from the get-go. A whole lot of story elements from the later films are in earlier drafts of ANH, such as Vader being Luke's father (as well as discovering his sibling, although it was originally Amakin, not Leia). I think some of it was set in stone, other things he came up with on the spot. For example: I think he always intended to have Luke discover a mystery sibling, but I don't buy it for one minute that it was suppossed to be Leia. I think he came up with that just before he started writing ROTJ.

He had vague notes... handwritten. He hires writers... he mainly enjoys collages of sound an image.... not writing plot. Checkout his student films (not THX1138)

I loved the first Star Wars in 1977. It hit home the point of versimilitude. Still think it stands alone as a great film. I was a third grader in 1977 who could have told you that The emperor's was Palpatine becaus it said so in the intro to the novel. Lucas made Han shoot last... is the sign of a man who understands what is actually good about his own creation?

I agree with you there.

I think Return of the Jedi is the worst of all six. Silly muppets, silly characters, cheesy sets and story ideas....

I again agree with you. ROTJ is very weak. If it weren't for the Emperor/Luke/Vader confrontation it would really be a waste.
In order to understand how Lucas is working you must also research his cohorts and their methods: Francis Coppola, John Milius, even his old college roommate,the guy that directed Grease (remember, boys went to see Star Wars, girls went to see Grease)

Oh, I've read a few biographies on Lucas, as well as his cohorts. Of course, Speilberg is the one who he has the most direct correllation with artistically.

PS Lucas himself is a bit amused at the mythos surrounding his supposed planning of the saga. Have you read about what he said at a recent (Siggraph?) convention? Something (and this is hearsay, I wasn't there) about how he had enought material for one goood movie, and he put 40 minutes into ROTS, and split the rest in the other two. the rest was filler fluff.

Sure, but he claimed the same thing about ANH, and he wasn't being entirely sincere, but was rather making a joke at his own expense.

When he wrote Star Wars he sweated and put effort and story into every minute of that film, every situation. It was rewritten and massaged even during shooting. He had go to the hospital to recover after that!

[b]Yes, but largely due to the pressures he was under due to the studio breathing down his neck, the technical problems he ran into, and the attitude of his crew. That film got changed as he was making it, and he's done that with all of them. They all still retain certain story elements though.

2001 was much more groundbreaking visually, and a huge influence on Star Wars's factual looking hardware, and nobody saw it. It was a financial failure. just look at how cool the visuals are in 2001 (1969).

Thanks for lightening the mood and bringing some much needed comic relief to this thread, Natsume

I actually prefer seeing Chewbacca in this particularly fluffy incarnation, as opposed to his rather pointless little cameo in "Revenge Of The Sith"(sorry, Boris!)

ufoclub said:

JediMaster said:

As JediMaster has already pointed out, I'm certainly not saying Lucas had
everything mapped out in stone from the get go, cuz he didn't. He had lots
of ideas about the Star Wars story over the years, but he certainly didn't
just make it all up as he went along either.

When Star Wars was made he'd already written more story than could be fitted
into one movie. So he chopped the main story down into 3 and made the essential
part into what became Star Wars (episode IV). When he made Star Wars he didn't
expect it to be as successful as it was, and didn't think he'd ever make the
sequels. Hence he made several changes to the storyline to simplify it. He
dropped the idea of Darth Vader being Luke's father, and he moved the Death
Star attack into the finale for the film (it wasn't originally supposed to
appear until the end of Episode VI). At this point He'd only really mapped
out the story for Episodes IV-VI.

By the time Empire was made he'd expanded the idea into the familiar Trilogy
of Trilogies 9 film concept. The idea was that the only constant characters
through all 9 movies would be R2-D2 & C-3PO, and each trilogy would centre
around a different generation of 'Skywalkers'. He talked about this idea
often around this time, and I heard the 9 film idea mentioned from Lucas'
own mouth (despite what he says now).

if only he had made good on his word to only have the droids as the consistent characters.... I'm surprised he didn't make some little boy named han solo appear... jeez.

ufoclub said:

Personally, I think having the droids as the only consistant characters in all
9 movies was an idea Lucas had always had, but hadn't actually mapped how how
he was going to do it. I think it shows in the prequel trilogy that their place
in the story was a kind of afterthought that hadn't been properly thought through.
He'd mapped out the story of Anakin and Obi-Wan and how Anakin succumbs to the
darkside etc. But he hadn't mapped out how R2 & 3PO fit into it all.

And he very nearly did make 'some little boy named han solo' appear in Episode III.
He was going to be an orphan being raised on Kashyyyk by Chewbacca. Luckily he
dropped the idea before shooting began (it was never in the original story).