sosgemini said:

The accused child molester victor salva?


Are gays looking for role models that reflect positivity or gay figures that are simply famous or successful in life?

GlamorousSlammer said:

tis a joke....a joke...hey, was victor latino? he looked white to me.. hmmm...

Joe Solmonese, President the Human Rights Campaign

BinaryJustin said:

BINARY!

You dunno how great it is to see you again! I haven't been able to access you-know-where since it got upgraded. It doesn't accept my password anymore. I have tried everything to no avail at all!

Please help me, Binary Justin San. You are my only hope.

I don't see what people's problem with Will & Grace is. I can see if Jack was the only guy on the show, but between him and Will, you almost get the spectrum of gayness. From flaming to straight acting. It's all fun. And Grace is the fag hag and Karen is the vixen that gay men love to be around. Good Lord. Learn to take a joke.

GlitterStream said:

will is straight acting?

uhhh...right...and Rosie Odonnell is a lipstick lesbian then ehhh?

scififilmnerd said:

Oh my goodness! You post freaked me out! So I hurried to you-know-where and thankfully I was able to log in. Are we talking about the same you-know-where??

sosgemini said:

Come on now. Will isn't like Jack. I think that's the point of the show. One flamer, one straight acting.

GlitterStream said:

no, i think the point of the show originally was to have two friends be the focus point of the show (will and grace) yet the writers didnt realize what annoying lead characters they had thus forcing them to rely more and more on jack and karen.....hence the two actors getting equal pay as the two leads...do you then ted danson and shelly long would have went for that?

all of these roles are horrid stereotypes with paper-thin characteres...at first the focus on jack and karen took away some of the annoyance of the two lead roles but now they have become a bore and the show has to rely on stunt guest staring to get people interest in it..

just cancel the damn dead horse already ..

sosgemini said:

I wish people would stop acting like this show was supposed to be some kind or groundbreaking gay sitcom. Because it's not. At least we have that and QAF, and we're still complaining. Well, i'm not. I'm happy.

GlitterStream said:

did i ever say that? where in my post did i even hint at that? once again, i said the show was about two leads (will and grace)....but they are such unlikeably, horribly written cliches that the makers of the film had to concentrate on the two side-kicks....and the show shouldnt be cancelled because it doesnt represent the gay community well...the show should be cancelled because its horrible and unfunny.

sosgemini said:

I'm not gonna argue about this.

BananaCologne said:

CynthiasSocks said:

Uhm... I dunno?

What "you-know-where" are you thinking of?

sosgemini said:

I actually loved the show.

I thought Will was really hot, too!

Not every episode was great, but I taped my favorites on re-runs.

Then, during the second season, Grace started to be this really annoying character as opposed to fun and endearing. I mean "annoying" to the point that you could just slap her and scream "STOP BEING SO ANNOYING!"

Then I got tired of Grace kissing men and getting laid every other episode while Will never got any (on-screen) action.

I was appalled when Will finally got a boyfriend (it lasted two episodes) and all they did was clap each other on the back - just like the highpoints of Steven Carrington's love life twenty years prior. That was as far as gay TV-liberation had taken us? Nowhere?!

While the ever-increasing obnoxious Grace basically french-kissed every male guest on the show!

The straw that broke the camels back was when Will was dating this really cute young dude and Grace was dating Woody Harrelson and Will dumped hot dude while Grace got to stick with Woody.

By the time she got married to that there weird-looking dude, I had stopped watching.

Now, when I occassionally see an episode, I see that the show has fallen into the trap of its characters becoming cartoon characters. In the first couple of seasons, they seemed human enough. Now they are all reduced to stereotypes.

In the beginning, I wasn't offended by any of the characters. Why, the whole relationship between Will and Jack reminded me a lot of that between myself and one of my friends.

But in the new episodes, Will isn't hot anymore. Now he's the one that annoys me like Grace started annoying me. Why, he's annoying to the point where I could just scream "STOP BEING SO ANNOYING AND ACT LIKE A MAN AGAIN, ALREADY, DAMMIT!"

BananaCologne said:

Mmmm. A fit. Nice. Well-adjusted. Let me see if I can find the right response to your a's and b's.

A) You hint at it, then post about "a certain top Hollywood celebrity", without naming him, while you have every intention to unveil his name later on. The "that's all I say"-remark seems a tat contradictory in that light.

The harshness of my reaction was brought on by the remark "you don't know what I know " , which is repeating indeed you have inside info you are not sharing. And as you did not, I made speculations. When others do, you do not mind, but when I voice my doubts about you anti Tom Cruise-statements, you react aggresively, as you always do when you get reactions that go against your opinions.

B) My remark of me being secure in who and what I am is indeed a reaction to a certain aspect of the gay community that I really dislike; the needy outing of people. I think that is a case for the person in question. You came out when you felt okay with it; grant other people the same courtesy.



I am sorry you took my post as a personal attack. If you really knew me you would know I reacted to the comment, not you as an entire person.
I know in the past you have been easily offended and were prone to call people names and I should have taken that into account.

But as you say; this is a public board. So I reacted. Shoot me. Of course I mind when you call me names publicly, insinuate I do not respect people and accuse me of being selfish. This is why I react to your post publicly, while I think it is best to continue this on orgnote.

Too bad you feel the need to carry this so far in a mere discussion, but the loss is yours, Patrick. I am sorry if you feel the possibility for friendship is obliterated by the fact I do not agree with you on certain things.
I wish you lots of good luck if you do, but if you don't, you can always orgnote me.

Greets,
Herman