hmmm....

So they have spaceships, laser guns, the force, hyperspace, alien worlds.....

but no ultrasound baby scans?

Poor sods!

SquirrelMeat said:

I didn't know that, and quite frankly, I don't care now. It was gangsta!

CynthiasSocks said:

You can say that again!

My daughter was mortified at what they did to that beautiful man!

Marrk said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one who was very emotional over this espisode...

I mean, it's the last one - no more Star Wars movies, that in itself was emotional enough. I critiqued every scene of this movie - and tied them in very nicely - now everything is complete and makes sense - I am at peace.

I forgot Padme had twins...I totally forgot about Princess Leia (shame on me)

Anyway, this espisode get's a 9 (out of 10) - from the opening battle scene there is barely time to go the bathroom, get popcorn or anything else during the movie. Do all that shit before it starts - the acting (paticularly Anakin Skywalker) is also better in this one.

Did everyone catch a glympse of Jar Jar at the end?....

MisterMan38 said:

I agree, and so did 3 of the 6 people I saw it with. Action scenes, effects, fantastic. Character work was a bit better with some characters, and I thought they handled Anakin's transition fairly well (though Padme got worse...isn't she supposed to be a Senator or something?) But just SOOOO much bad dialogue and poor pacing. These movies, unlike the orginals, just lurch and start with no sense of story arc. You never get a sense that you're on a real adventure with these characters...it's more like you're sitting in on a story meeting. I think people are being a bit softer on it, simply because by the end, you're thinking, "Hey, look, Luke, Leia, Chewie, Vader....I cared about those guys"
[Edited 5/22/05 19:20pm]

"Sifo Dius" was originaly "Sido Dius" in the screenplay and was intended to be a mispronunciation, on the part of the cloners, of "Sidious." I don't remember why it was changed to Sifo Dius, and I don't know why it wasn't further explained in the finished movie, but I still take Sifo Dius to be an alias of Sidious.

And it was Palpatine, not Plagius, that "fathered" Anakin, because Palpatine says that Plagius' apprentice learned everything he knew (about creating life and overcoming death) before killing him in his sleep.

I just saw this yesterday and I enjoyed it alot. It was great fun!

The good things:

-- The interaction between Obi-wan and Anakin was much better.
-- The scenes between Palatine and Anakin were great (even with the bad lines). i think these were some of the strongest in the film.
-- The action scenes were better. I think the ones with Yoda are hysterical.
-- I dig the way Yoda disposed of those two guards on his way into see Palpatine.
-- The whole "higher ground" thing and Anakin's impatience and arrogance that cost him 3 limbs and very nasty sunburn.
-- The whole Vader suit thing at the end. The Frankenstein rip-off I liked. The big "nooooo" was corny but i can live with it. I liked that the force of his hate bent and exploded all that shit around him.
-- The Best thing about the film was the way that Obi-wan left Anakin/Vader on the bank of that lava river, all burnt and chopped. For once, Lucas left a scene open for interpretation and didn't flash neon signs in our faces.

Interesting things:

-- The chance that either Sidious or Sidious's master engineered the birth of Anakin by some sort of immaculate conception.
-- Sidious/Palpatine's manipulation of Anakin to the dark side by playing on his fears and insecurities.
-- The fact that the Jedi had clearly lost their way and had become blind to the truth. They were destroyed (or almost destroyed) by thir own dogma. Their loss of control was evidenced by Windu suggesting the Jedi take over control of the Senate and again Windu attempting to kill Sidious rather than arrest him.
-- I spotted the Millenium Falcon!
-- The brief interaction between Yoda and Chewbacca.

Shit (yes, an anagram of sith) things:

-- Bad, corny, stilted dialogue. Not as bad as the previous 2 films but pretty bad.
-- The lack of ANY chemistry or feeling between Anakin and Padme. Their scenes together were atrocious.
-- The total destruction of the character of Padme from strong and independant to the complete malfunctioning wreck we see later.
-- The WORST part is the utter fucking ridiculous handling of the death of Padme (see previous point). Dying of a broken heart! WTF????? She had two healthy kids. It showe her as selfish and cowardly, not to mention the preposterous proposition that you can die from a broken heart.....blah!!


Anyway, the good did outweigh the bad and the film is way better than the previous two of this trilogy. I'd give it 4 stars out of 5.


.
[Edited 5/22/05 21:22pm]

SquirrelMeat said:

I'm sorry but you are incorrect.

I picked up the book in the grocery store and read it a few weeks ago.

The dark side does let the Sith sustain life.

If you notice when the emperor touches anakins head at mustafar, that in the book is where he keeps anakin alive using the dark side.

Mace windu in the book doesn't get his hand chopped off, just the saber knocked away. I thought his death was badass, the only way for Samuel L. Jackson to die in a movie, even though I think that killing a badass like Samuel L. Jackson is out of line, just not right.



Dirt &Earthyvibes
http://www.dirt.bz

CarrieMpls said:

There is a scene in the book with qui-gon

not in the movie though


Dirt &Earthyvibes
http://www.dirt.bz

HamsterHuey said:

'

WHERE ARE THESE OUTTAKES???

PM WHERE TO FIND

Dirt

Dirt said:

They are not outtakes. the latest DVD versions have been slightly re-editted.

bkw said:

Agree with all of your points except the Padme death.

I think Lucas created a clever paradox.

Anakin could see the future, and saw that she would die in childbirth. But he didn't know what caused it.

So he set about finding away to save her. The irony is that his very quest, is what breaks her heart and kills her in the first place.

If she died because of a health complication, it would not have been his fault.

As it was, his obsession with saving life, and the subsequent turn to the dark side, is the very thing that kills her.

Yoda warned him about altering the future, and look what happened when he tried to.

Dirt said:

But the book is not written by Lucas, and was based on the earlier second draft of the script.

In the film Sidious admits he does not yet have the power to sustain life (just after he gives Anakin the name "Darth Vader").

At some point, leading upto the forth draft of the script, Lucas dropped, or a least, left out, various key parts of the original plot.

So I suppose we will never know what the intentions were, unless he lets us know in the DVD commentry.

I saw REVENGE OF THE SITH 2x this weekend and each time it was visually and emotionally thrilling! Its one of the finest STAR WARS films ever, a MUST SEE!

http://apnews.myway.com//...JQE80.html

LOS ANGELES (AP) - Moviegoers have turned out in full force for the final chapter of the "Star Wars" saga, which took in $158.5 million since its opening to shatter three-day and four-day box office records.

"Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith" grossed $124.7 million from Thursday to Saturday, according to studio estimates Sunday. That's higher than the three-day record set by the first "Spider-Man," which took in $114.8 million in May 2002 - though "Star Wars" had a lower Friday-Sunday take ($108.5 million) than the Tobey Maguire film.

"Revenge of the Sith" rang in a whopping $50 million on its opening Thursday, a single-day record boosted by eagerly anticipated midnight showings, and its total receipts since then beat the four-day $134.3 million opening of 2003's "The Matrix Reloaded." The George Lucas film has also grossed $144.7 million overseas for a total of $303 million worldwide.

"The reaction to the movie is absolutely spectacular," said Bruce Snyder, president of domestic distribution at Twentieth Century Fox.

dreamfactory313 said:

how much is it for a cinema ticket in the states?
I payed £5.80 to see it in Scotland ,im sure it will be more expensive in the likes of London though.

Dirt said:

I read an article on Liam Neeson in a magazine that mentioned he would be in this movie and I was looking forward to it. But I guess mebbe it was filmed but deleted?

The movie would have been even better with Qui Gon in it. He was the heart and soul of Ep I and one of the best things about the prequels.

Answers to a few of the questions posed here:

1. Why does Leia say she remembers her mother, but Padme dies when Leia's a few seconds old?

Two possible explanations: One, Leia is remembering impressions of her through the connection they share in The Force (Leia does state that they are just vague impressions). Luke doesn't remember this, but that just means his Force abilities are slightly different.

The other possibility is that she is remembering Bail Organa's wife. Now, some say that Luke makes a point of asking about her REAL mother, but keep in mind that LEIA DOESN'T KNOW SHE'S ADOPTED! As far as she was concerned, the Organa's ARE her parents.

There has never been ANY indication that Bail Organa was romantic with Padme, or that he married her.

2. Is Palpatine's account of Darth Plaegus first hand?

Yes. In an earlier draft, Darth Sidious reveals that he was the one to kill Plaegus.

3. Is Palpatine, or Plaegus, Anakin's dad?

Possibly. This was deliberately left ambiguous. It IS possible that one of the Sith Lords created Anakin, but it's also possible that he was just filling young Skywalker's head with BS. There is no proof that the Sith had learned to actually create life by manipulating Midi-Clorians.

4. Could Sidious actually save Padme?

The Force can be used to heal and prolong life, but whether it could to the extent that Sidious implies is questionable. Fact is, Palpatine has no intention of saving Amidala's life, whatsoever. The whole thing was a ruse to seduce Anakin to the Dark Side.

5. What's the deal with Sifo Dyas? Is Sifo Dyas actually Darth Sidious?

The history of this character is explored in the novel Labyrinth of Evil, by James Luceno. In a nutshell, Sifo Dyas was a Jedi Master that was deceived by Count Dooku into helping him create the clone army. Dyas was unaware of Dooku's turn to the Dark Side, and helped him covertly commission the clones because he convinced him that the Sith were in control of the Senate (which was actually true. Dyas was just unaware that Dooku was a Sith himself). Dooku then did away with the Jedi Master (although, he apparently kept his body on ice, as he used some of his blood in creating the new droid body for General Greivous). So no, Syfo Dyas and Darth Sidious are NOT the same character.

6. Why didn't Padme know she was having twins? Don't they have ultrasounds in the SW universe?

Keep in mind that Padme and Anakin were SECRETLY married. If she went to any kind of medical expert, there was a chance it could leak. Being an elected official, she would face public scrutiny, and would have to reveal who the father was. She was hiding her pregnancy from the galaxy, so going in for regular checkups wasn't possible.

7. Why is Yoda limping around with a cane, yet he becomes a bad-ass when he fights with a lightsaber?

Yoda is actually quite old and frail, but he is strong in The Force. When going into battle mode, he calls upon The Force to counteract his physical deficiencies. This actually takes quite a bit out of him, so he only does it when necessary.

8. Why does General Grievous cough? Isn't he a droid?

Grievous has a droid body, but he has an organic brain, as well as some internal organs. Basically, the general was an earlier experiment by Dooku and Sidious of melding an injured organic warrior to droid technology (much like that later used on Vader).

In the second season of the Clone Wars micro-series, Grievous is shown capturing Palpatine (as described in the opening crawl of Sith). As he heads into his ship to make his escape, he turns to see Mace Windu running after them. He ignites his lightsabers, intending to duel with Windu, but Mace uses the Force to crush the outer carapace of Grievous's exoskeleton. The resulting injury is what causes the cough.

9. I heard that Qui Gonn was suppossed to appear in this film, but he didn't! What gives?

Liam Neeson did, indeed, film a scene for this one, but it was cut due to time. Likewise, scenes involving Mon Mothma, the formation of the Rebel Alliance, Bail Organa's decision to stay in the Senate, and Yoda's arrival on Dagobah all were left on the cutting room floor. All of these will hopefully be shown on DVD.

TMPletz said:

That's not exactly what it means. The Force is thrown out of balance, not by the presence of two Siths to numerous Jedi, but by the machinations of The Sith. The Force doesn't naturally have a "Dark Side", as evil is a concept that doesn't exist outside of sentient beings (animals may kill, but they do it to survive. Only sentients beings, such as humans, kill to gain power or to elevate their own interests). Thus, the Sith are injecting their own malignant evil into the natural energy field generated by life. As Palpatine himself says, it is a pathway to ablities that are unnatural. This corrupting of the energy field known as the Force is what has thrown the galaxy into darkness, and brought about an "unbalance". Anakin is prophecised to bring about a restoration of the natural order to the galaxy.





Well, the Jedi HAVE been taking an educated guess, pretty much from the get-go, with Anakin. The fact that Qui Gonn encounters a "vergence" in The Force, centered around Anakin, is the first indication that young Skywalker is the Chosen One of Prophecy.

But, ultimately, he DOES bring balance. When he kills the Emperor in ROTJ, he fulfills the prophecy, because the Sith order is no more. The evil perversion of The Force is brought to an end with the death of Sidious, and the redemption of Anakin Skywalker.

It just doesn't occur when or how the Jedi think it will.


-----
[Edited 5/23/05 8:23am]

Thanks, JediMaster, and orgnote me with your opinion, but here's something I had more questions about.



How does Darth Maul figure into this chronology? Sifo Dyas commissioned the Clone Army about 10 years prior to Episode II. Which means Dooku must have tricked him into doing so more than 10 years prior to Episode II. Now, this leaves 2 possibilities:

1. That Maul was not, in fact, a Sith Lord, but a decoy in Sidious' and Tyrannus' plan to reweal the return of the Sith.

or

2. That Dooku was immediately recruited after Maul's demise, which raises the question of how Sidious brought Dooku into the fold. It must have been a quick recruitment if Dooku got Sifo Dyas to do this so quickly.

namepeace said:

Dooku struck out on his own from the Jedi order several years prior to actually becoming a Sith, but didn't officially leave the Order until shortly after the events in TPM. He had always had a fascination with The Sith as a child, but none of the order knew the extent of his fascination. Unfortunately, Darth Sidious DID pick up on it, and so he kept his eye upon him for many years.

When Maul was killed, Sidious quickly set about luring Dooku to The Dark Side (much like he did with Anakin in ROTS). Within months, the plan had been set in motion to create an army for the Republic, so that a war could weed out the Jedi for the Sith. Dooku convinced Sifo Dyas to help him create an army to "protect" the Republic from the Sith (and, as I said earlier, he managed to convince him to keep in on the DL, so that the senate wouldn't find out). Sifo Dyas was removed before he could let the Jedi in on the plan, and Dooku removed all trace of Kamino from the Jedi archives.

JediMaster said:

Please, tell me you found it impossible to contain your laughter while typing that out.

RipHer2Shreds said:

Oh yes! Truth to tell, I laughed at the original question as well!

JediMaster said:[quote]

TMPletz said:

But here's a point I think Lucas made, whether he knew it or not, with this movie.

Sidious was right. The Jedi were corrupted, not in the sense of evil, but in the sense that they had degenerated to the point where extermination was inevitable. Think about it:

- They were ultimately held hostage to their own rules: that some were "too old" to begin training, that Jedi couldn't marry, etc. They bent some of these rules to accommodate Anakin, but their rigidity in their thinking caused some decay.

- They encouraged repression of emotions. Yoda's advice to Anakin was the worst advice he could have given. He basically told Anakin to ignore and forget about his feelings of love, loss and attachment. That was plain stupid. Through this the Jedi basically handed Anakin over to Palpatine.

- Their repression of thought and opinions. They hid secrets of the Dark Side because of their fear that those secrets would convert impressionable minds.

- Their fear of losing power. They chose not to inform the Senate of their diminished powers to read the Force in Ep. II. They briefly considered deposing Palpating taking over the Senate in Ep III. They were scared.

So maybe Sidious was right. The Jedi weren't that much different. In the end, they were paralyzed by fear, pride and repression.

So maybe bringing balance to the Force REQUIRED Anakin to destroy the Jedi, eventually eliminate the Sith, and start again from square one.

Actually, except for the direct dialogue at times, teh movie is quite clever here and there, like you have pointed out, namepeace.




I thought things like the formation of the Rebel Alliance will be shown in the mentioned TV series. Does anyone know more about those?

Also, does anyone remember the exact explanation that is given why Yoda goes to Dagobah? I think it was in the Timothy Tahn books. Something about the Emperor and Vader not being able to sense him there because of a Sith artefact on the planet, which sort of neutralizes Yoda's own aura.

calldapplwondery83 said:

The live action TV series is rumoured to occur between ROTS and ANH, so it's probable we'll see the formation of the rebellion.

You are correct about Yoda's journey to Dagobah being explained in the Zahn books. The tree where Luke encounters his vision in ESB is a lair of Dark Side energies (why is unknown), and it's very presence basically helps to mask Yoda's own. Eseentially, they cancel each other out to outside observers who are Force sensitive.

namepeace said:

You bring up some very good points. The Jedi ultimately fall because they become overly dogmatic. This type of thinking is still in place when Luke goes to Dagobah. Obi Wan has to convince Yoda that things are desperate, and that he has to dispense with such hard-line thinking as the age limits.

Yoda may have meant well in his advice to Anakin regarding letting go, but he goes about it the wrong way. It's never a good idea to become so attached to someone or something that you will sell your soul for it, but at the same time the Jedi take it to the extreme and outright FORBID attachment. Luke ultimately sees the fallacy in this, and strikes an acceptable balance. His love and faith in his friends is ultimately what drives him, and he is victorious in the end. Interestingly, in the novels, Luke eliminates the ban on marriage, and all the hard-line Jedi rules like the age limit. Luke learns from the mistakes of the old order, and sets about creating a New Jedi Order that won't be burdened by such ridiculous restrictions.

Darth Sidious definitely takes advantage of the fact that the Jedi don't see the forest for the trees. Many of them should have paid closer attention to Jedi Masters like Qui Gonn Jinn and Quinlan Voss, who challenged the status quo. Just a simple act, like showing good faith in an impressionable young man like Anakin, would have made a huge difference. Anakin does the right thing, and takes his knowledge of Sidious's identity to Mace Windu, and is rewarded with mistrust. If Windu had simply shown gratitude and allowed Anakin to help him, the story would have unfolded in a very different manner.

I saw Episode III twice this past week. Once at the midnight showing, and again on Saturday afternoon. I loved it. I honestly feel that Lucas did all the right things in order to tell the story he wanted to tell. For me, Episode III not only tied the other films together but also had an effect on how I see the other films.
I won’t repeat all the points made around here, but I will share some of the things that stood out to me:

*The relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan has progressed nicely. Their exchanges after the crash landing on Coruscant and before Obi-Wan leaves for Utupau show how close they’ve become. They’re like brothers. They’ve been through a lot together, which makes it all the more tragic when they’re goin’ at it (like brothers) in the end.

*Ian McDiarmid’s performance was flawless. The man made you absolutely despise him.
When Palpatine is watching Anakin go after Dooku with a smile on his face it reminds me of the Emperor cheering Luke on against Vader in ROTJ. It almost mirrors the situation, because in both instances he’s wanting a new younger, more powerful apprentice! He’s so cool about the lies he tells Anakin. So smooth about it all. I don’t know about you, but it reminded me that “hey, this dude has been playin’ the whole galaxy for decades!” (I have to watch Episode I again now so that I can fully appreciate his manipulation of the Senate). The fact that he can deceive Anakin and play on his deepest emotions is almost child’s play for him at this point. Once he finally “becomes” The Emperor that we all know and love, you hate him even more because you know that he cannot be stopped….yet. I’m not gonna go all crazy and star talking Oscar like many other diehards, but McDiarmid’s performance was brilliant.

*I thought that Anakin’s turn was done beautifully. I see so many people that have complaints about this, but it’s because they’re simply not thinking.
Anakin’s been turning slowly ever since he became a Jedi. His unwillingness to let go of his mother was really where it all started, and the swing-fest with the sand people just got the ball rolling faster. That said, Episode III just gives us the climax of Anakin’s turn. Killing Dooku in cold blood probably felt so awesome for Anakin. He wanted to do it. That’s why he told Palpatine “I shouldn’t”. That didn’t stop him, though. His need for revenge was another step towards the dark side. His fear of loss continued with Padme and there were other scenes that really stuck out to me. The first was when Anakin was told by Mace Windu to wait in the Jedi Council chamber while he went have a “little chat” with the Chancellor. When Anakin is looking out over the balcony of the Jedi Temple while Padme is doing the same from her apartment, it’s a powerful moment. His fear of loss is just eating him up and he just can’t bear to let things play out. He feels like he has to be in control of everything around him. The second is when he’s standing over the lava pit on Mustafar, after killing the separatists. When you see the tears running down his face, it really hits home. He’s pretty much mourning the loss of himself. I’m so glad Lucas did that, because it reminds us of the ongoing conflict within Anakin.

Anakin’s lust for power was also played out well. I loved the look on Padme’s face when he said “we can rule the galaxy together”. Now, when you see him offer the same thing to Luke in Empire it’s like “hey, at least the guy’s trying to keep it in the family" .

In the end, Anakin's turn in Episode III is truly a sad thing. When the Emperor tells Vader that he killed his wife, the smile on his face when he sees the reaction of his apprentice says it all. He knows that he owns Vader. The guy has nothing else to live for but to serve his new master and continue his quest for power.
How friggin’ sad and tragic is it that Anakin did all this stuff to save his wife and all it did was lead to her death?
How pathetic is it that a boy who was once a slave becomes a Jedi hero, only to turn to the dark side and be enslaved by a Sith Lord?

This film made me appreciate the character of Vader/Anakin more than ever. It did make him more human, but it made you see the whole story now. Scenes from the other films have a deeper and more profound meaning. There’s a guy under that mask and armor who has put himself through so much unnecessary crap. Instead of becoming the most powerful Jedi ever, he’s now playing second banana to some wrinkled old prune. In ROTJ, when Luke is taken away after talking to Vader on Endor, and you see Vader just kind of standing there conflicted, it now reminds me of that lava pit on Mustafar. Once again he’s gotta be asking himself “what the hell am I doing?”

Great SW discussion.

http://www.theconnection....b_main.asp

PS -- to those who complain about the acting, the script and direction affect the acting. Each of the actors -- Jackson, McGregor, Smits, Portman in particular -- are good in their own right. Lucas as screenwriter and director is the common denominator. I think the acting is much better from the 1st 2 to Ep III,