Excellent piece here by Chuck Klosterman, from his book Sex, Drugs & Cocoa Puffs:

http://www.wnyc.org/books/33777

Your thoughts?

i liked that book, except for when he'd go on about sports crap. that's the price of reading him and nick hornby, i guess.

Interesting that you should post an exceprt from this book and its the very first chapter. I picked up the book cause I kinda indentified with the first few paragraphs I read and I really enjoyed his musings in exactly this chapter. However, after reading subsequent essays I came to the conclusion that this guy's kind of an asshole.

Anxiety said:

Yeah, I'm not down with sports, either.

Anxiety said:

Your thoughts on this chapter?

it reminds me of the thread i just started on righteous indignation, only focused on a different set of emotions and triggers.

not that the two threads were started concurrently on purpose, of course. i just recognize a pattern.

Anxiety said:

Yes, I guess they both ask the same question: Why do we not question what we are fed?

Ace said:

what it all comes down to where i'm concerned is that there's a wall between what we're "supposed" to think and feel and believe, and what really rings true if you spend some quality time thinking and talking and challenging the things experienced in life.

yeah, i know. i'm getting all 'matrix' an' shit. but it's true - that movie had some good metaphor and social commentary, as blown out of proportion as it became when it turned into a franchise (an ironic turn of events in itself, if you think about it).

what scares me is that so many people never get an opportunity to visit that other side of perception, where you're making your own conclusions instead of having them pumped into your consciousness by the popular media.

Anxiety said:

Exactly.


I am the only person on Earth who was not seen this movie in its entirety, but my last girlfriend was a Matrix junkie and, from what she's told me, it seems that this flick does examine these ideas.


Scares the hell outta me. I'm tryin' to do my small part here by starting threads where we question what the popular media is feeding us and hopefully engender some discussion.

yeah, well. how do you push people out of that safe little cozy box without coming off like some kind of radical fringe-monger, and instantly turning off the very people that need to be challenged most?

it's frustrating.

Anxiety said:

It's a tough trick to pull-off.

Most people get quite threatened when you challenge the perceptions that comfort them. I find it's better to ask questions than to make statements.

And as Bill Maher said, "If you're not willing to get booed every once in a while, I promise you you're not saying anything very real."

Humour is a good tool, as well. Look at Chris Rock: he says some very daring things, but people love him 'cause he's funny.

i guess i try to do it every now and then with people i know, people i work with, whatevs - i'll try to challenge people on very small, seemingly insignificant things. i guess if the media is a virus, the only way to challenge it is to treat your argument like an anti-virus.

Anxiety said:

It is very difficult. Even friends that I greatly respect and love very dearly can get quite edgy when their perceptions on certain topics are challenged ("love" is the biggie). I think when I was younger, I used to be afraid of rocking the boat, but someone's gotta stand up and say, "The Emperor's naked as a jaybird!".

Ace said:

sometimes it's really hard to play the naked emperor card, though. there's a fine line between lifting a veil and pissing on someone's parade. and yeah, okay, sometimes parades need pissing on, but it doesn't keep me from feeling like an ass about it sometimes - and i think that there's a time and place for that kind of intervention, and a time and place to let it rest.

Alright, just for arguements sake (cause I mostly get what ya'll are saying)- this is all fine and well, but what if I wanna believe in fairy tales and happy endings and get wrapped up in the art and entertainment and feel those emotions till I burst? What if the other side of the coin just plain bums me out too much and I'd rather focus on the dream world?

CarrieMpls said:

well, i'd say it's all a matter of perspective. if you want the warm fuzzy audrey hepburn romantic hooey dooey, what's wrong with that? but if you are convinced that is THE definitive behavior for romanticism - that this is what love is SUPPOSED to be - then i think you leave out an entire spectrum of what love can mean, and how so many other people could express it to you. if you're open to what love is to others and realize that lloyd dobler is a fictional character and people probably didn't do that boombox trick before the movie became popular, then what's the problem?

Anxiety said:

I get ya, but do you think people really can't tell the difference? That this is truly a problem in society?

CarrieMpls said:

yes. i honestly, really, truly believe a lot of people can't tell the difference.

is it a problem? i don't know. it bothers me to think that companies are making money off of conditioning people into believing that true love equals buying their products as gifts for their loved ones. that kind of thing bothers me. and i think a lot of people buy into this completely.

Anxiety said:

I suppose that's probably so. I so often think in terms of my own little world and the people I know and assume its how most people are. I realize that's rather short-sighted of me. And it pisses me off when other people do it!

Anxiety said:

Certainly. But I think we too often let the lunatics run the asylum because we are afraid of confrontation. As David Baerwald puts it in his excellent promo CD Baerwald on 'Triage' (on the subject of "roles"), "If you have a shred of sanity left, you know that it's crazy. But you can't say that it's crazy, 'cause then everyone'll think that you're crazy!" We need more people coming out and saying that it's crazy. Without that, you wind-up with another four years of George Bush.

CarrieMpls said:

Well, for one thing, you're falling into the trap laid out for you by people who want to keep you in that lulled state, so you don't question what you're told and keep buying the drug that they're selling. And two: you could be in for an emotional crisis when the real world collides with the fairy tales you want to believe in.

CarrieMpls said:

Yes, yes and YES! Look at what sells. Look at the most popular TV shows, movies, music. Look at people's expectations of how their relationships should play-out. People want to believe in these fairy tales.