i work full time, raise my son on my own and presently have no man to speak of however...when i do...i am a complete nurturer. i love to cook (i hate the cleaning part tho!! ), always do special little things like put love notes or sexual suggestions in his lunchbox...but yet i am very independant and enjoy giving him his space and having my own as well. i have noticed in todays mainstream (not all women) that its the 'what-has-he-done-for-me-lately' mentality that is prevalent. some may call it equality or progress or whatever, personally i find it sad. mind you, i do believe it is a two way street...he has to want to do things for me too...i enjoy having a bath run for me on occasion...a surprise meal cooked for me (even if he can't cook and its only a grilled cheese sammich!!!)...having my car detailed....things like that. i need a man who likes to be nurtured and also can nurture me right back...is respectful and i can guarantee what goes around comes around in this instance...i will respect him too.

If are talking about love and devotion and showing and expressing it, you should just say that instead of disguising it as something else like "what a woman should do to keep your man" and the "role in actually "being" a woman to their men"

Dex - this won't make me very popular, but I think you may be identifying a cultural difference, within the subset of American women.
In your experience, do Black women treat their men different than other races of women?

Well....

Do you think it would be fair to say that some of the perceptions with regard to women caring for their men in more traditional manners are perceived as lax due to to the growing of number of households where women are the sole and/or primary bread winners of the household?

Do you think that inferiority complexes and/or ego's may also generate some of this perception?

Do you think that men have encouraged this by enouraging women to go outside of the home to work? For as many men as there are that say that a feminist movement is behind the change of mindset...there are just as many men that say ..... if my woman wants to suport the household...I'll hold it down at home. And in those instances how do you view the nurturing distribution?

Don't get me wrong... I'm probably as old fashioned when it comes to home as a woman can get. . . .but by the same token I still see relationships as a two way street and a commitment. In a world where men are quick to cite rational for not marrying in a committed relationship it stills seems to be the perception that the lack of traditional values fall on the shoulders of the women. Isn't that a contradiction of sorts? Where do you see as starting point for the breakdown of traditional roles in a familial setting?

As for the women being alone.....sometimes alone allows you the opportunity to see what you value and what you expect a man to bring to the relationship as well. Alone isn't always a bad thing... there are many people in relationships today that feel more alone than those that physically are.

Such an interesting thread in so many ways . . . .

I contend that it's the lack of foundation building that allows relationships to get to the point of break-down .... communication..... truly is key. Because after the love and after the hellacious sex..... after the cuddling ...there has to be a means of communicating with regard to values, and ethics and morals and roles within the relationship.....

the bottom line for me is this... regardless of who cooks the meal on any particular day I believe its more important that you dine together.....not in passing as one enters and upon the others exodus.....

And no matter who wakes the other in the midst of sleep to say i need you and i want you.... the receptiveness of the other to respond to his/her partners needs supercedes the onset of foreplay and the focus on which gender initated it....

Mutual respect and communication ....and the man will know that he is respected and loved and important and so will his woman .....and knowing that without having to have those words uttered in my opinion is the starting point ..... its all about being clear on what you want in your union....but in all fairness.... unions are unique and not all inclusive on any level just as some men look to be nurtured ... many others love to generate it.....

my again

Ok....how do you express your love and devotion?

As if this is relevent or any of your business since you failed to say what exactly a woman needed in order to keep you. If you must know, in the beginning of our relationship, I would write notes letting know how much of a good time I had on one of our outings, how wonderful he was, how much I believed in him and his talents, and how I felt about the person he was. I don't write the letters as much, since it's been a while. I listen to him when he needs to talk about his goals or needs to vent about drama. Sometimes I just listen and sometimes I give advice. I am his supporter. I not only express my love verbally, but I am very affectionate and "mushy." I buy him things I think will interest him on a whim. I do things with him that peak his interests even if it's something I am not into. I am honest with him. There are a bunch of little things about our relationship too, but all these things I get in return. I don't believe in one-sidedness. I am independent and he knows this. I don't clean shit and I don't cook shit and he doesn't expect me to. We have an open communication with each other. He knows I don't need him


and...you don't need to go outside the U.S. to find the woman you want. You can go to the deep south in an area where everyone's barefoot or the appalachian mountains

As if this is relevent or any of your business since you failed to say what exactly a woman needed in order to keep you. If you must know, in the beginning of our relationship, I would write notes letting know how much of a good time I had on one of our outings, how wonderful he was, how much I believed in him and his talents, and how I felt about the person he was. I don't write the letters as much, since it's been a while. I listen to him when he needs to talk about his goals or needs to vent about drama. Sometimes I just listen and sometimes I give advice. I am his supporter. I not only express my love verbally, but I am very affectionate and "mushy." I buy him things I think will interest him on a whim. I do things with him that peak his interests even if it's something I am not into. I am honest with him. There are a bunch of little things about our relationship too, but all these things I get in return. I don't believe in one-sidedness. I am independent and he knows this. I don't clean shit and I don't cook shit and he doesn't expect me to. We have an open communication with each other. He knows I don't need him


and...you don't need to go outside the U.S. to find the woman you want. You can go to the deep south in an area where everyone's barefoot or the appalachian mountains

Everything you stated here is EXACTLY what I was talking about in this thread....if you took the time to read my posts and reiterations...you "should" have seen that it is and ALWAYS is...about reciprocation and equality without relinquishing the inherent roles men and women do play....period.

Everything you stated here is EXACTLY what I was talking about in this thread....if you took the time to read my posts and reiterations...you "should" have seen that it is and ALWAYS is...about reciprocation and equality without relinquishing the inherent roles men and women do play....period.

Everything you stated here is EXACTLY what I was talking about in this thread....if you took the time to read my posts and reiterations...you "should" have seen that it is and ALWAYS is...about reciprocation and equality without relinquishing the inherent roles men and women do play....period.

If that's what you meant, that is not what you said. Others have said it on this thread, but not you. I read everything you wrote and it came off accusitory of women, specifically American ones. You talked about roles and what a woman needs to do (although never giving examples of it) and anyone who didn't agree with as being alone...as if that was a bad thing because, of course, a woman doesn't want to be alone

Nor does a man, and that man wants to be nurtured and appreciated just as the woman does and should..and this is NOT the first time I said this in this thread.

Whap!

But thank you for all your fiery banter....

Well, whether YOU like it or not, there are roles women DO play just as there are roles men play in our society. You can take sides where you wish, but the facts still remain. You can toot your horn, stomp and scream, burn a bra, but you are still the inherent nurturers, by Natures/God's grand design. You can fool yourself into thinking your man doesn't or won't enjoy a nice home cooked meal or to be spoiled by YOU for as much as you will give it. I neve once said that it is "solely" relegated to the woman, as BOTH should have vested interests in treating their partners as something special. BUT....Rhonda stated it best, the "women's movement did a huge part in doing away with the gender roles that men miss and admire.

I was being sarcastic when I said a woman doesn't want to be alone. If you assume a woman doesn't want to be alone, that is the wrong assumption

It's been my experience that the usage of the phrase "real" man/woman smacks of sexism and homophobia. That may not have been your intention, at least consicously, but that's definitely how it came across to me and no doubt many others. I've gotta wonder though, since you've accused any woman here who disagreed with you of being alone or a lesbian. (Hard to find much less sexist or homophobic notions)
[Edited 5/25/05 2:18am]

come on.....

Speaking as a bisexual womanI am uncomfortable with the term "real man/woman". It's a loaded phrase, with centuries of gender politics baggage tied to it.

This is such bullshit, it seems like you like this underdog-position, you want it to be loaded.....it is you against the big bad world, right??? Get a grip, we all have our struggles, just because you are bi-sexual it doesn't mean you have more or less.... you are the one who is eating from both sides, good for you!

Yep. That's right. I love being the underdog and keep myself in said position just so I have something to bitch about it. Thanks for telling me where I stand.

We all have struggles, you say? I don't have more or less because of my sexuality, you say? Well no shit.

Maybe you need a nap, because you gave one hostile response to me stating how I feel about a set of words.

Awww, honey, I suspect she knew what you were askin' all along. She just didn't feel like she should have to "prove" herself and she wanted to get you to show your true intentions.

Dex: look inside yourself. That's where the answer is. Stop projecting your own shit/past with women onto others.

Awww, honey, I suspect she knew what you were askin' all along. She just didn't feel like she should have to "prove" herself and she wanted to get you to show your true intentions.

Dex: look inside yourself. That's where the answer is. Stop projecting your own shit/past with women onto others.

True intentions? What true intentions? And I would not call my travelling all over the world my "shit past" but a very eye-opening experience that showed me that over here....women (not all) have got it all wrong...but that's just me. And in a debate there will always be "two" sides....and who doesn't look for endorsements from like minded folks?

Dex, honey, what you're doing is called "universalizing", it's recognized as a faulty thinking pattern. It means taking your personal experience--ONE American guy--and making it the absolute truth. Maybe it's YOUR truth, Dex, but assuming you know how "most American women" are within their relationships is pretty arrogant and just plain untrue.

Secondly, maybe you've visited a few other countries, but until you've actually lived and worked for long periods of time in one, you don't really see what a culture is like. People put on their best faces for visitors; maybe on the surface you saw one thing, but I guarantee you that there is more beneath the surface.

Again, I say--stop putting your anger at your inability to find a partner onto American women. You need to concentrate on making yourself the man you want to be in order to attract the woman you want.

As if this is relevent or any of your business since you failed to say what exactly a woman needed in order to keep you. If you must know, in the beginning of our relationship, I would write notes letting know how much of a good time I had on one of our outings, how wonderful he was, how much I believed in him and his talents, and how I felt about the person he was. I don't write the letters as much, since it's been a while. I listen to him when he needs to talk about his goals or needs to vent about drama. Sometimes I just listen and sometimes I give advice. I am his supporter. I not only express my love verbally, but I am very affectionate and "mushy." I buy him things I think will interest him on a whim. I do things with him that peak his interests even if it's something I am not into. I am honest with him. There are a bunch of little things about our relationship too, but all these things I get in return. I don't believe in one-sidedness. I am independent and he knows this. I don't clean shit and I don't cook shit and he doesn't expect me to. We have an open communication with each other. He knows I don't need him


and...you don't need to go outside the U.S. to find the woman you want. You can go to the deep south in an area where everyone's barefoot or the appalachian mountains