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PrintableJanfriend said: In regards to what you bolded, yes. Whether it be a matter of gender or race, society makes us believe we are more different than we actually are. The reason women are seen a better nuturers is because of the lack of opportunity given to men to be the nuturer. From birth, females are given dolls to play with and cuddle (which is evil).  That's so wrong. Saying it like that wraps up the woman's entire identity in these roles.
They are implanted with the idea that they will be mothers and are encouraged to practice at an early age. They are encouraged to gather around when a new baby visits, etc. Males are not encouraged to handle or care for children. These people grow up believing they are naturally predisposed this way, when in reality, they are taught this. The male is taught to be the provider and the female is taught to be the caregiver. Anything taught can be untaught. Most women are so convinced this is their job, they won't allow the man to do it. There are natural hormonal and physical differences between men and women, being a nurturer is not one of them. The trick then, would be for humans to differentiate between nature and nurture. Obviously, this is easier said than done.
To what Dex said...there are people on this very site who will argue that carrying a child for 9 months doesn't make you a nurturer, it makes you an incubator. I actually read someone equal it to being a host for a parasite. Carrying a child doesn't make you anymore proned to bonding or caring for it. Breastfeeding doesn't mean shit. There are plenty of women who can not lactate or choose not to breastfeed. It's irrelevent. I know men who are stay at home fathers. I know single fathers. I know a man who raised his child from birth because the mother was not a nurturer at all and a deadbeat. Popping out a baby doesn't mean you're naturally more capable. That's a bullshit excuse for men who don't want to nuture and were never taught to.
If being nuturing makes you a good woman, and being a provider makes you a good man I know some guys who'd make excellent mothers, and some girls who would make an awesome dad. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: Janfriend said: In regards to what you bolded, yes. Whether it be a matter of gender or race, society makes us believe we are more different than we actually are. The reason women are seen a better nuturers is because of the lack of opportunity given to men to be the nuturer. From birth, females are given dolls to play with and cuddle (which is evil). That's so wrong. Saying it like that wraps up the woman's entire identity in these roles.
The trick then, would be for humans to differentiate between nature and nurture. Obviously, this is easier said than done. To what Dex said...there are people on this very site who will argue that carrying a child for 9 months doesn't make you a nurturer, it makes you an incubator. I actually read someone equal it to being a host for a parasite. Carrying a child doesn't make you anymore proned to bonding or caring for it. Breastfeeding doesn't mean shit. There are plenty of women who can not lactate or choose not to breastfeed. It's irrelevent. I know men who are stay at home fathers. I know single fathers. I know a man who raised his child from birth because the mother was not a nurturer at all and a deadbeat. Popping out a baby doesn't mean you're naturally more capable. That's a bullshit excuse for men who don't want to nuture and were never taught to.
If being nuturing makes you a good woman, and being a provider makes you a good man I know some guys who'd make excellent mothers, and some girls who would make an awesome dad. I like the way you think! The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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DexMSR said: meow85 said:
If being nuturing makes you a good woman, and being a provider makes you a good man I know some guys who'd make excellent mothers, and some girls who would make an awesome dad. I like the way you think! Thanks!  "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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XxAxX said: why don't we all just settle down and have some nice, homemade cookies??
 
I'm all for that! Jan, can you choose your cookie first, or does Dex have to because you don't believe in the whole "ladies first" notion ? | |
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DexMSR said: meow85 said:
If being nuturing makes you a good woman, and being a provider makes you a good man I know some guys who'd make excellent mothers, and some girls who would make an awesome dad. I like the way you think! That's interesting that you like the way she thinks, but she agreed with what I said | |
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DexMSR said: Janfriend said: In regards to what you bolded, yes. Whether it be a matter of gender or race, society makes us believe we are more different than we actually are. The reason women are seen a better nuturers is because of the lack of opportunity given to men to be the nuturer. From birth, females are given dolls to play with and cuddle (which is evil). They are implanted with the idea that they will be mothers and are encouraged to practice at an early age. They are encouraged to gather around when a new baby visits, etc. Males are not encouraged to handle or care for children. These people grow up believing they are naturally predisposed this way, when in reality, they are taught this. The male is taught to be the provider and the female is taught to be the caregiver. Anything taught can be untaught. Most women are so convinced this is their job, they won't allow the man to do it. There are natural hormonal and physical differences between men and women, being a nurturer is not one of them To what Dex said...there are people on this very site who will argue that carrying a child for 9 months doesn't make you a nurturer, it makes you an incubator. I actually read someone equal it to being a host for a parasite. Carrying a child doesn't make you anymore proned to bonding or caring for it. Breastfeeding doesn't mean shit. There are plenty of women who can not lactate or choose not to breastfeed. It's irrelevent. I know men who are stay at home fathers. I know single fathers. I know a man who raised his child from birth because the mother was not a nurturer at all and a deadbeat. Popping out a baby doesn't mean you're naturally more capable. That's a bullshit excuse for men who don't want to nuture and were never taught to 
They are really looking for a good woman to nurture their cause!! LOL....she just does not get it.... 
....and alone!  What is this alone shit? There's nothing wrong with being alone, however, I am not alone. Your condescending attitude either means this is way over your head or you feel that women have their place. If your old fashioned, admit it. It's hard for old fashioned people to understand free thinkers. This would have been a perfect opportunity for you to address what I said above and have some dialogue instead of dismissing it. I haven't dismissed anything you said here | |
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meow85 said: Janfriend said: In regards to what you bolded, yes. Whether it be a matter of gender or race, society makes us believe we are more different than we actually are. The reason women are seen a better nuturers is because of the lack of opportunity given to men to be the nuturer. From birth, females are given dolls to play with and cuddle (which is evil). That's so wrong. Saying it like that wraps up the woman's entire identity in these roles.
The trick then, would be for humans to differentiate between nature and nurture. Obviously, this is easier said than done. Absolutely. I had a life-size kitchen set when I was young: refrigerator, stove, and sink. I actually thought I was having fun with these things. It included a fake ice maker, dishes, fake diswasher, and realistic looking food. I didn't ask for it, it was given to me as a gift by my own mother. I didn't realize until I was older how detrimental those toys are to the mental development of females and how it hinders their own self-evalutation. My goal as a child was to be a mother and have a husband take care of me. I used to stuff clothes in a ball under my clothes to look pregnant  All of the adult women thought it was cute. I was preparing for my destiny as a female  I actually had one of my clients tell me his wife's job was to stay at home and take care of their children and I couldn't speak to her even though I needed to for business reasons[Edited 5/20/05 9:52am] | |
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Fleshofmyflesh said: XxAxX said: why don't we all just settle down and have some nice, homemade cookies??
I'm all for that! Jan, can you choose your cookie first, or does Dex have to because you don't believe in the whole "ladies first" notion ? Whoever gets there first. I, however, am not opposed to chilvary as long as it doesn't patronize [Edited 5/20/05 9:46am] | |
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God love ya, Jan.
You got an argument going with yourself here. Where are all the fighters at? | |
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Janfriend said: meow85 said: Even worse is those "toy" cooking and cleaning sets. They're nothing more than brainwashing tools. Ever hear a woman refer to herself as a Wife and Mommy?
That's so wrong. Saying it like that wraps up the woman's entire identity in these roles.
The trick then, would be for humans to differentiate between nature and nurture. Obviously, this is easier said than done. Absolutely. I had a life-size kitchen set when I was young: refrigerator, stove, and sink. I actually thought I was having fun with these things. It included a fake ice maker, dishes, fake diswasher, and realistic looking food. I didn't ask for it, it was given to me as a gift by my own mother. I didn't realize until I was older how detrimental those toys are to the mental development of females and how it hinders their own self-evalutation. My goal as a child was to be a mother and have a husband take care of me. I used to stuff clothes in a ball under my clothes to look pregnant All of the adult women thought it was cute. I was preparing for my destiny as a female I actually had one of my clients tell me his wife's job was to stay at home and take care of their children and I couldn't speak to her even though I needed to for business reasons
[Edited 5/20/05 9:52am] I guess I was lucky in that regard in that my parents didn't give a crap about gender roles. I did own Barbies, but as a child I never had much interest in so-called "girl" toys. My favourite toys when I was little were some Ninja Turtles action figures, my Lego set, and a tricycle. I did play with one Barbie, because I didn't have an April O'Neal action figure, so I pretended my redheaded Barbie was her.
When I was very small I wanted to be a Ninja Turtle when I grew up -a true child of the 80's. Then I I finally got sensible and decided I'd be an astronaut rockstar.  "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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Janfriend said: DexMSR said: I like the way you think! That's interesting that you like the way she thinks, but she agreed with what I said What's interesting, that I don't like the way you think? The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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DexMSR said: Janfriend said: That's interesting that you like the way she thinks, but she agreed with what I said What's interesting, that I don't like the way you think? Dude, did you read it? She agreed with what I said and was basically saying the same thing I said...wow... | |
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Well, whether YOU like it or not, there are roles women DO play just as there are roles men play in our society. You can take sides where you wish, but the facts still remain. You can toot your horn, stomp and scream, burn a bra, but you are still the inherent nurturers, by Natures/God's grand design. You can fool yourself into thinking your man doesn't or won't enjoy a nice home cooked meal or to be spoiled by YOU for as much as you will give it. I neve once said that it is "solely" relegated to the woman, as BOTH should have vested interests in treating their partners as something special. BUT....Rhonda stated it best, the "women's movement did a huge part in doing away with the gender roles that men miss and admire.
I my humble opinion, I am getting myself a woman that knows how to "be" a woman for me...not a woman that is hungup on NOT being one! Holla.... Whap The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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DexMSR said: Well, whether YOU like it or not, there are roles women DO play just as there are roles men play in our society. You can take sides where you wish, but the facts still remain. You can toot your horn, stomp and scream, burn a bra, but you are still the inherent nurturers, by Natures/God's grand design. You can fool yourself into thinking your man doesn't or won't enjoy a nice home cooked meal or to be spoiled by YOU for as much as you will give it. I neve once said that it is "solely" relegated to the woman, as BOTH should have vested interests in treating their partners as something special. BUT....Rhonda stated it best, the "women's movement did a huge part in doing away with the gender roles that men miss and admire.
I my humble opinion, I am getting myself a woman that knows how to "be" a woman for me...not a woman that is hungup on NOT being one! Holla.... Whap ok man, believe what you want. It seems you not up to the 21st century. Your definition of a woman is unfortunately not what a woman is | |
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Janfriend said: DexMSR said: Well, whether YOU like it or not, there are roles women DO play just as there are roles men play in our society. You can take sides where you wish, but the facts still remain. You can toot your horn, stomp and scream, burn a bra, but you are still the inherent nurturers, by Natures/God's grand design. You can fool yourself into thinking your man doesn't or won't enjoy a nice home cooked meal or to be spoiled by YOU for as much as you will give it. I neve once said that it is "solely" relegated to the woman, as BOTH should have vested interests in treating their partners as something special. BUT....Rhonda stated it best, the "women's movement did a huge part in doing away with the gender roles that men miss and admire.
I my humble opinion, I am getting myself a woman that knows how to "be" a woman for me...not a woman that is hungup on NOT being one! Holla.... Whap ok man, believe what you want. It seems you not up to the 21st century. Your definition of a woman is unfortunately not what a woman is So tell me, what do you do for YOUR man, that makes him feel appreciated? The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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DexMSR said: Well, whether YOU like it or not, there are roles women DO play just as there are roles men play in our society. You can take sides where you wish, but the facts still remain. You can toot your horn, stomp and scream, burn a bra, but you are still the inherent nurturers, by Natures/God's grand design. You can fool yourself into thinking your man doesn't or won't enjoy a nice home cooked meal or to be spoiled by YOU for as much as you will give it. I neve once said that it is "solely" relegated to the woman, as BOTH should have vested interests in treating their partners as something special. BUT....Rhonda stated it best, the "women's movement did a huge part in doing away with the gender roles that men miss and admire.
What Rhonda didn't address was before the women's movement these gender roles were never wanted in the first place. If they were, there wouldn't have been a need for a women's movement. You think a woman enjoys cleaning up after your shit, cooking everyday, being the caregiver? Think again. Women didn't hold the same rights as men, couldn't own property, or vote. They were the property of their husbands (which is why they took their last name), passed from father to husband. How dare a woman not be grateful and show her appreciation and not dote on her husband who after all, is going to provide for her, right? Men didn't admire these things, they felt entitled to it. After all, he's providing for her, right? Good Lord, she better do what she can to keep this good man. She better spoil him like he were her child to keep her good man. | |
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Janfriend, you are not on your own as I agree entirely with just about everything you have said.  When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. | |
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Janfriend said: DexMSR said: Well, whether YOU like it or not, there are roles women DO play just as there are roles men play in our society. You can take sides where you wish, but the facts still remain. You can toot your horn, stomp and scream, burn a bra, but you are still the inherent nurturers, by Natures/God's grand design. You can fool yourself into thinking your man doesn't or won't enjoy a nice home cooked meal or to be spoiled by YOU for as much as you will give it. I neve once said that it is "solely" relegated to the woman, as BOTH should have vested interests in treating their partners as something special. BUT....Rhonda stated it best, the "women's movement did a huge part in doing away with the gender roles that men miss and admire.
What Rhonda didn't address was before the women's movement these gender roles were never wanted in the first place. If they were, there wouldn't have been a need for a women's movement. You think a woman enjoys cleaning up after your shit, cooking everyday, being the caregiver? Think again. Women didn't hold the same rights as men, couldn't own property, or vote. They were the property of their husbands (which is why they took their last name), passed from father to husband. How dare a woman not be grateful and show her appreciation and not dote on her husband who after all, is going to provide for her, right? Men didn't admire these things, they felt entitled to it. After all, he's providing for her, right? Good Lord, she better do what she can to keep this good man. She better spoil him like he were her child to keep her good man. You still didn't tell me what YOU do to make your man feel appreciated.....I'm waiting. The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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DexMSR said: Janfriend said: What Rhonda didn't address was before the women's movement these gender roles were never wanted in the first place. If they were, there wouldn't have been a need for a women's movement. You think a woman enjoys cleaning up after your shit, cooking everyday, being the caregiver? Think again. Women didn't hold the same rights as men, couldn't own property, or vote. They were the property of their husbands (which is why they took their last name), passed from father to husband. How dare a woman not be grateful and show her appreciation and not dote on her husband who after all, is going to provide for her, right? Men didn't admire these things, they felt entitled to it. After all, he's providing for her, right? Good Lord, she better do what she can to keep this good man. She better spoil him like he were her child to keep her good man. You still didn't tell me what YOU do to make your man feel appreciated.....I'm waiting. ok.
Appreciated? Are you sure you are using the right word? To appreciate is to 1. think well of; esteem 2. recognize gratefully 3. estimate the quality of 4. be fully or sensitively aware of --vi. to rise in value Appreciation is 1. grateful recognition, as of a favor 2. sensitive awareness, as of art 3. a rise in value or price So what does a woman need to be grateful about in regards to a man? That he has a penis? That he is in her life and she is not alone? That he loves her? What favor is he doing for her? What does she need to be sensitively aware of? His presence? If you're asking me what kind of girlfriend I am, that is a whole different question which has nothing to do with your original post in regards to keeping and appreciating a man | |
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Janfriend said: DexMSR said: You still didn't tell me what YOU do to make your man feel appreciated.....I'm waiting. ok.
Appreciated? Are you sure you are using the right word? To appreciate is to 1. think well of; esteem 2. recognize gratefully 3. estimate the quality of 4. be fully or sensitively aware of --vi. to rise in value Appreciation is 1. grateful recognition, as of a favor 2. sensitive awareness, as of art 3. a rise in value or price So what does a woman need to be grateful about in regards to a man? That he has a penis? That he is in her life and she is not alone? That he loves her? What favor is he doing for her? What does she need to be sensitively aware of? His presence? If you're asking me what kind of girlfriend I am, that is a whole different question which has nothing to do with your original post in regards to keeping and appreciating a manWhat...Do...YOU...do....to...show...you ....appreciate...your...man???? Plain and simple question..... The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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DexMSR said: Janfriend said: ok.
Appreciated? Are you sure you are using the right word? To appreciate is to 1. think well of; esteem 2. recognize gratefully 3. estimate the quality of 4. be fully or sensitively aware of --vi. to rise in value Appreciation is 1. grateful recognition, as of a favor 2. sensitive awareness, as of art 3. a rise in value or price So what does a woman need to be grateful about in regards to a man? That he has a penis? That he is in her life and she is not alone? That he loves her? What favor is he doing for her? What does she need to be sensitively aware of? His presence? If you're asking me what kind of girlfriend I am, that is a whole different question which has nothing to do with your original post in regards to keeping and appreciating a manWhat...Do...YOU...do....to...show...you ....appreciate...your...man???? Plain and simple question..... or do you not appreciate what your man does for you? The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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DexMSR said: Janfriend said: ok.
Appreciated? Are you sure you are using the right word? To appreciate is to 1. think well of; esteem 2. recognize gratefully 3. estimate the quality of 4. be fully or sensitively aware of --vi. to rise in value Appreciation is 1. grateful recognition, as of a favor 2. sensitive awareness, as of art 3. a rise in value or price So what does a woman need to be grateful about in regards to a man? That he has a penis? That he is in her life and she is not alone? That he loves her? What favor is he doing for her? What does she need to be sensitively aware of? His presence? If you're asking me what kind of girlfriend I am, that is a whole different question which has nothing to do with your original post in regards to keeping and appreciating a manWhat...Do...YOU...do....to...show...you ....appreciate...your...man???? Plain and simple question..... Maybe you didn't get my response. What am I appreciating? | |
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DexMSR said: DexMSR said: What...Do...YOU...do....to...show...you ....appreciate...your...man???? Plain and simple question..... or do you not appreciate what your man does for you? He doesn't do anything for me that I cannot do myself. To show appreciation is to show gratitude. I show gratitude to anyone who does something for me that I cannot do on my own | |
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Janfriend said: DexMSR said: or do you not appreciate what your man does for you? He doesn't do anything for me that I cannot do myself. To show appreciation is to show gratitude. I show gratitude to anyone who does something for me that I cannot do on my own And that gratitude comes in the form of???? The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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DexMSR said: Janfriend said: He doesn't do anything for me that I cannot do myself. To show appreciation is to show gratitude. I show gratitude to anyone who does something for me that I cannot do on my own And that gratitude comes in the form of???? You tell me.... gratitude is thankful appreciation for favors received What favors does a man give a woman? | |
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Janfriend said: DexMSR said: And that gratitude comes in the form of???? You tell me.... gratitude is thankful appreciation for favors received What favors does a man give a woman? Ok...I'm done...either you are alone...or a lesbian...which I have no argument for as this thread is not "for" you. 
So...enjoy your life..your lifestyle...your...pride...self-sufficience...power....manless society...genderless society....gigglin.....Peace Sista. The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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DexMSR said: Janfriend said: You tell me.... gratitude is thankful appreciation for favors received What favors does a man give a woman? Ok...I'm done...either you are alone...or a lesbian...which I have no argument for as this thread is not "for" you.
So...enjoy your life..your lifestyle...your...pride...self-sufficience...power....manless society...genderless society....gigglin.....Peace Sista. If are talking about love and devotion and showing and expressing it, you should just say that instead of disguising it as something else like "what a woman should do to keep your man" and the "role in actually "being" a woman to their men" | |
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Janfriend said: DexMSR said: Ok...I'm done...either you are alone...or a lesbian...which I have no argument for as this thread is not "for" you.
So...enjoy your life..your lifestyle...your...pride...self-sufficience...power....manless society...genderless society....gigglin.....Peace Sista. If are talking about love and devotion and showing and expressing it, you should just say that instead of disguising it as something else like "what a woman should do to keep your man" and the "role in actually "being" a woman to their men" Ok....how do you express your love and devotion? The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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DexMSR said: lillith said: i work full time, raise my son on my own and presently have no man to speak of however...when i do...i am a complete nurturer. i love to cook (i hate the cleaning part tho!!
), always do special little things like put love notes or sexual suggestions in his lunchbox...but yet i am very independant and enjoy giving him his space and having my own as well. i have noticed in todays mainstream (not all women) that its the 'what-has-he-done-for-me-lately' mentality that is prevalent. some may call it equality or progress or whatever, personally i find it sad. mind you, i do believe it is a two way street...he has to want to do things for me too...i enjoy having a bath run for me on occasion...a surprise meal cooked for me (even if he can't cook and its only a grilled cheese sammich!!!)...having my car detailed....things like that. i need a man who likes to be nurtured and also can nurture me right back...is respectful and i can guarantee what goes around comes around in this instance...i will respect him too.
Hell Yeah!!!!!
whap!  The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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DexMSR said: brownsugar said: i hear what your sayin', every now and then its nice to rub your man's back or cook his favorite meal, purchase some new lingerie for him to critique when he comes home and full of stress. if i had a man that stood behind me in all that i do, i'd stand behind him and best believe he'd be satisfied, but alas i've only come in contact with losers so until then.... The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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