sextonseven said:

Did you say "gay"?

Who's gay?

sextonseven said:

Oh, Claremont will dig that up in Excalibur, and it will be something no one will even care about. That book is a prime example of how badly Claremont needs to retire.

jerseykrs said:

TOTALLY agree. Fucking Liefeld! When will someone just kill him? He is the biggest hack in comics, EVER!

JediMaster said:

He still hasn't written anything I felt like reading.

sextonseven said:

Probably not.

But my money is on it having been intended to be Gambit as he was originally conceived as a clone of Cyclops acting as Mr. Sinister's undercover agent in the X-Men - with every intention to betray them. Claremont has revealed that much in interviews following his initial departure from the X-Men.

Did you guys ever read that write up in Wizard that showed how he copied all sorts of other artists. I mean, they had back to back panels and his were EXACT to the original artist. He completely lost credit with me when I saw that.

Yeah, Gambit might have been one of his brothers, but there isn't as much evidence about that. X-Treme was definitely one of them. An X-Treme reading list:
Captain Britain #3('80s)
X-Force Annual #2
X-Force #29-30
X-Men #23, 39

doctamario said:

But X-Treme doesn't count.

He was one of Nicieza's creations and only Claremont's continuity count.

I remember how upset I was when Nicieza negated Nova Roma.

And how much I cheered when Claremont negated Nicieza's negation of Nova Roma in X-Treme X-Men.

jerseykrs said:

Who are u talking about?

scififilmnerd said:

Claremont is Satan.

scififilmnerd said:

Yeah, Gambit might have been one of his brothers, but there isn't as much evidence about that. X-Treme was definitely one of them. An X-Treme reading list:
Captain Britain #3('80s)
X-Force Annual #2
X-Force #29-30
X-Men #23, 39

doctamario said:

Well, I think we are a few on this thread who agree that continuity is missed.

And although Claremont's current capabilities as a writer seems to be a rather controversial issue - like the Rainbow Children,you either love 'im or hate 'im - I think that one cannot dispute that he, at the very least, still tries to place his stories - however good or bad - in a sense of continuity and a sense of direction. And personally I find that a positive thing.

Also, I'd like to point out that when Tom DeFalco finally got booted as Marvel's editor-in-chief and new EIC Bob Harras hired Claremont as a "continuity consultant" (replacing Mark Gruenwald), Marvel books in general increased in quality. Then, enter Joe Quesada and everything went to hell once again...

I blame Joe!

scififilmnerd said:

Claremont is Satan.

doctamario said:

Yes Adam X the X-treme...I think he was/is supposed to be the 3rd...He had a cool power too...boiling your blood once a wound is open...He had the traditional potentially catastrophic Summers brothers power...

Sinister said:

I'm sure he was, but I thought he sucked.

And a lot of battles in Marvel Comics goes without leaving open wounds, rendering his power about as useful as Squirrel Girl's.

The Summers-brothers thing was just an attempt by Nicieza to make his lame character important. Thankfully, fans took to him about as well as they took to Maggott.

scififilmnerd said:

Well X-Treme had those blades or sicles that he fought with, so he'd create the wound and then use his power.

doctamario said:

Well, I think we are a few on this thread who agree that continuity is missed.

And although Claremont's current capabilities as a writer seems to be a rather controversial issue - like the Rainbow Children,you either love 'im or hate 'im - I think that one cannot dispute that he, at the very least, still tries to place his stories - however good or bad - in a sense of continuity and a sense of direction. And personally I find that a positive thing.

scififilmnerd said:

Yeah, Claremont recently tied the Phoenix miniseries and the Wolverine Agent of Shield storyline into the latest issue of Uncanny. Now if someone can just tell me between which issues Wolverine joins the Avengers.

Just so everyone knows, I'm a dude.

And this is why Liefeld is a plagiarist. There are MANY more examples in old CBG's and Wizards, and probably on the net if you dig deep enough. Look at these examples and TRY to tell me he's 100% original.

http://julien-gautier.clu..._copie.jpg

He sucks.

#1 Limited facial expressions, generally ranging from barely-restrained anger to sheer "constipated" look
#2 Concealment of characters' feet (which are often drawn very badly when occasionally visible)
#3 Concealment of characters' wrists, most of his own designs would have bracers or plant-pot style gloves to cover his inability to figure out how wrists work
#4 Bizarre proportions such as tiny heads, wrists, and ankles and oversized breasts and muscles (look at cap below, he looks several feet thick)
#5 Poses that appear to be both illogical (in the context of the plot) and anatomically impossible, or at least uncomfortable
#6 Skewed perspective: often a picture will be began in one perspective then be finished in another. (See Captain America again, clearly started in profile view then switched to three-fourths perspective.)



BTW, look at how BAD the above drawing is. It's horrible. There are tons of struggling talented artists that don't get any of his run, he sucks.
[Edited 6/11/05 15:38pm]

sextonseven said:

This is just like the early 90's except I think it was worse then. Marvel can't get it into their heads that Wolverine is overexposed.

Just so everyone knows, I'm a dude.

And this is why Liefeld is a plagiarist. There are MANY more examples in old CBG's and Wizards, and probably on the net if you dig deep enough. Look at these examples and TRY to tell me he's 100% original.

http://julien-gautier.clu..._copie.jpg

He sucks.

#1 Limited facial expressions, generally ranging from barely-restrained anger to sheer "constipated" look
#2 Concealment of characters' feet (which are often drawn very badly when occasionally visible)
#3 Concealment of characters' wrists, most of his own designs would have bracers or plant-pot style gloves to cover his inability to figure out how wrists work
#4 Bizarre proportions such as tiny heads, wrists, and ankles and oversized breasts and muscles (look at cap below, he looks several feet thick)
#5 Poses that appear to be both illogical (in the context of the plot) and anatomically impossible, or at least uncomfortable
#6 Skewed perspective: often a picture will be began in one perspective then be finished in another. (See Captain America again, clearly started in profile view then switched to three-fourths perspective.)



BTW, look at how BAD the above drawing is. It's horrible. There are tons of struggling talented artists that don't get any of his run, he sucks.
[Edited 6/11/05 15:38pm]

doctamario said:

I consider Claremont a half ass version of Mr Sinister more than Satan...He also could be reffered to as High Evolutionary light...

Sinister said:

But consider the alternatives to Claremont...

More writers like Scott Lobdell, Joe Casey, Grant Morrison and Chuck Austen who'll totally fuck up continuity and character relations in horrible, awful, bad storylines!

I'll take Claremont on the X-Men before any "new, hot writer" any time. He doesn't screw things up. He knows the characters and their histories and the individual parts they play in the bigger picture.

Why, he even gets their accents right, unlike, say Peter Milligan, who forgot all about Rogue's accent in his first issue.

I'll admit that Joss Whedon seems to have a good grasp of the characters, which is a very good thing, but he has yet to write a story that actually grabs me.

So what's the opinion on X-Men: The End? I'm not quite too sure what to think of it myself, yet. I think the whole warskrull-attack got dragged out too much, but I am intrigued by the series.

Like Excalibur, I think I'd like it better if it had a better artist, though.
[Edited 6/12/05 14:24pm]

No one has a comment on Rob's copying?! Damn. I think it's so obvious it's pathetic.
[Edited 6/12/05 16:36pm]

No one has a comment on Rob's copying?! Damn. I think it's so obvious it's pathetic.

I want to see Larocca and Austen gone for good. I never liked Austen anyway, his lack of detail and Saturday morning cartoon like style is such an unbelievable turn off for me. I don't know what people see in him. That style was good for Excalibur, a funny book, but not X-Men.