scififilmnerd said:

Well, I've read the last issue now and apparently Jean Grey is resurrected once more.

The good thing about Morrison killing her off (again) in New X-Men #150 is that then one could pretend that she had never been resurrected at all.

Yep, I'm one of those who were in an uproar when she got resurrected back in Fantastic Four/X-Factor. Because they were saying that it wasn't Jean Grey that died on the moon but an energy being pretending to be her.

Now, revealing that Professor X was still alive and it was the Changeling that had died in his stead was fine. Professor X's "death" didn't have a story point that was undermined by this revelation.

But the point of the tragic Phoenix saga was the human spirit of Jean Grey conquering at the end. She made a sacrifice. And with the revelation that Jean Grey didn't sacrifice diddley, well, that certainly ruined the classic for me. And it ruined the characer of Scott Summers because he dropped his wife and child to rush back to his childhood sweetheart. Some hero he was.

And then, to try and "save" matters, they made a retroactive change (again), this time saying that his wife had been a villain from the start, so it was alright for him to dump her.

I kept reading the dang X-books because I love so many of the characters, but I never cared for Jean and Scott again. They horrible characters. Awful! Bad!

So I didn't mind Morrison changing the status quo by killing Jean off again and hooking Scott up with Emma. (But I did mind the manner in which it happened because I didn't see the point in making Jean Phoenix again just in time to bite it. Unless of course, they figured she had to be Phoenix at the time of her death in order to resurrect her. )

And now she's been resurrected again in a mini-series that really was quite bad. That one page where Wolverine kills Jean too many times to count... And, I mean, they aren't even kidding with that kinda of crap even though it reads like something right out of Not Brand Echh.

And what's with that last page of Emma waking up at night to see Phoenix returning? I didn't get that.

I'm a big fan of the Morrison run. While I didn't agree with everything he did, I really admired his wanting to be different(I wish other X-writers would be so daring, but I won't name any popular names). I think Cyclops shouldn't have been resurrected and I don't approve of the recent phoenix resurrection. Don't approve of the Colossus and Psylocke resurrections either. Or the Magneto and Xorn resurrections. Fuck the X-books have gone to shit.

doctamario said:

I've always thought that Xorn was an utterly dull and boring character on par with Maggott and Joseph. So I really don't understand why they introduced him after it turned out that the Xorn they initially introduced wasn't Xorn but some lunatic who thought he was Magneto and disguised himself as Xorn.

But seeing how everybody are resurrected left and right anyway, I'm happy that at least Colossus and Psylocke are back.

Who has stayed dead at Marvel? Bucky? Gwen Stacy? Hell, they even brought friggin' Aunt May back from the dead!!!

JediMaster said:

Bucky, Gwen Stacy and Uncle Ben. You will never see those three revived ever. Everyone else is fair game.

sextonseven said:

Yeah, but didn't Gwen show up in the ultimate line? I mean, what? That doesn't count?

sextonseven said:

Yeah, but didn't Gwen show up in the ultimate line? I mean, what? That doesn't count?

sermwanderer said:

Where did you find that???

Well, I'm just saying. It kind of ticks me off that they say those "characters" are untouchable. They inevitabally come up with ways to get their "characters" into books. It's contraditory, don't you think?

I mean, I don't care either way, just don't say something and do the opposite, that's all I'm stating.

jerseykrs2 said:

I don't have a problem with permanently deceased characters turning up in 'Elseworlds' or 'What If?' stories. That's what those titles are for--to tell stories you otherwise couldn't in the regular books.

sextonseven said:

I agree. In the case of Marvel's Ultimate books, they are designed to recreate the characters in a more modern setting, and thus are set in the beginnings of their careers. In most cases, they wind up meeting the same fate as their Marvel U counterparts (so far, Uncle Ben and Gwen Stacy are taking dirt naps in the Ultimate universe as well. I'd be real nervous if I were the Ultimate universe version of Bucky).

JediMaster said:

Bucky, Gwen Stacy and Uncle Ben. You will never see those three revived ever. Everyone else is fair game.

so far, Uncle Ben and Gwen Stacy are taking dirt naps in the Ultimate universe as well.

JediMaster said:

LOL, Ultimate Bucky is an 80 year-old veteran. Killing him would be just mean.

Speaking of the Ultimate line, Ultimate Defenders was the best. Although if I was an old Defenders fan, I probably would not have been too happy.

Ultimate Valkyrie

sextonseven said:

See, I'm an old-school defenders fan, so I wasn't too pleased. It's not the Defenders without Dr Strange anyway.

Haha! Cool bump!

Check out my avvie!

JediMaster said:

AGREE!

jerseykrs said:

:thumbup:
Man, I need to start getting some of those old back issues! Especially the whole "Six-fingered demonic hand" storyarc from the early 80s! I remember loving that story as a kid! It culminated with Satan unleashing (literally) Hell on Earth, and the Defenders having to stop him. Lots of cool conflict with Hellstorm fighting against his father!!

jerseykrs said:

:thumbup:
Man, I need to start getting some of those old back issues! Especially the whole "Six-fingered demonic hand" storyarc from the early 80s! I remember loving that story as a kid! It culminated with Satan unleashing (literally) Hell on Earth, and the Defenders having to stop him. Lots of cool conflict with Hellstorm fighting against his father!!

JediMaster said:

I've got I think 20-40 old Defenders issues. I enjoyed the hell out of them.

sextonseven said:

See, I'm an old-school defenders fan, so I wasn't too pleased. It's not the Defenders without Dr Strange anyway.

JediMaster said:

I have a lot of the later Defenders issues after the X-Men joined because at the time I was such an X-Men freak. While I haven't read the early issues, it seems like that initial line-up of Hulk, Doc Strange, Namor and the Silver Surfer would be the best.

sextonseven said:

The "New Defenders" era, with Beast, Angel, etc? Ugh! That was horrible (and I was an X freak myself). Yeah, the classic lineup with the guys you mentioned, along with Hellstorm, Valkyrie, Nighthawk ( ) and some of the other third tier Marvel heroes...those rock!!

JediMaster said:

Yeah, I think the roster was Beast, Angel, Iceman, Valkyrie, Gargoyle and Cloud(???). Definitely not the best lineup the Defenders ever had, lol.

Wizard ran a feature last month called 'The Worst Defenders Ever'. Cloud was on the list along with Devil Slayer and Hellstorm.

sextonseven said:

To me, Hellstorm was way cooler than Nighthawk!

JediMaster said:

LOL, this thread is GREAT!!!