Do you think about if that help your giving is hurting them in the long run? Sometimes by helping someone too much makes them dependent on you or help from someone/somewhere else....Or even this, there may be a lesson to be learned and if you help someone in that particular situation they may not learn that lesson. So in not learning they aren't prepared down the road. Does it cross your mind that in helping you may be making someone weaker in the long run? Some things you just have to experience to fully understand what's to be learned, and if you help people through those experiences you can hurt their growth and development. Have any of you dealt with this issue? Or been the person getting helped?

i have never thought of it in that way...

i'll hafta give that some thought before i actually post a legit answer...

i think there's a lot of difference between being a supportive and dependable friend, and being an enabler. it's like that old saying, "give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day..."

Anxiety said:

Well not neccesarily being a full blown enabler, but helping when letting them go through it alone would be better in the long run? Sometimes in trying to be supportive you may hurt your friend or loved one with your interference....On the other hand by not helping they may see betrayal or you letting them down for not helping.... I speak mostly of that type of situation....

there is a FINE LINE here as well.

as it's been noted earlier in this thread, you don't want to be an outright enabler & resolve the situation for the other person or do what they should do, because that does NOT help the person you're helping..
but a lot of people, when they see someone struggling with something, the instinct IS to try to help in some way.


IDEALLY..
when you see someone in a difficult situation, you could kind of "guide" them through it; either by presenting the possible solutions & probable results of actions taken to resolve the situation

OR, preferably

by having them talk out the problem & then asking them, "okay, what do you think is the best option here to resolve this?"

so by doing this, you're helping them to identify/recognize the problem, then you're helping them to find & consider the possible actions to resolve the problem (& their probable results)..
then you.. let them follow (& do) what they believe to be the right thing.
so you have helped them, but you have also given them the "tools" to get throught that situation (or similar) in the future.


I'm dealing with this issue now..
I'm the 1 who, in terms of my business, could definitely use from time to time a certain type of "help", & some who could help me in that way are basically saying "well, you do it the way you think you should, work your way through it the best way you can.."

because of what I just explained in my initial paragraph in this thread, I understand what these people are doing, & in a way it does motivate me to try to resolve these challenges on my own & not simply "run to someone" for whatever type of assistance..


this is still, however, a very fine line.

ultimately, each of us should have the opportunity to gain the tools to get through whatever the challenge or problem is before us, then we should at least try to get through that on our own, to learn to accomplish things autonomously before seeking help or allowing ourselves to be helped.

mltijchr said:

Ahhh the fine lines we walk in life huh? It always intrigues me how so many things (if you think about it) can define or break your life, and how you react and deal with them. I like asking questions of this nature because people tend to just react and not deeply explore the possibilites or reprecussions.....

I call that being a Mama's boy. Not being able to function without their mama. Sometimes a Mother can enable her son by doing everything for him. It gives them a false representation of women. Some think all women will cater to them and that is not true. Being a Mom you worry about that everyday!

Sinister said:

definitely a fine line, & what you say about the implications of our choices & decisions is totally true.

what I really try to do as I "add years to my life"
IS
to think more about the implications of my choices/decisions
because more times than not, they will have an effect on others as well as myself.
there are times to be "spontaneous", but also there are times when the more you plan ahead/anticipate, the better chance to accomplish.

i dunno. one time i had a really good friend who had a really bad drug problem, and after trying to do everything to help and be tough and be supportive and blah blah blah, i finally just called this friend's parents and said "look, you need to come get your kid before she kills herself." and now my friend's doing great and hasn't used in almost a decade. calling my friend's parents turned her world upside down, because she was stripped of all her autonomy for a couple of years...but now she's married and has two beautiful children and a great life, so i don't feel a bit of guilt. i don't know if this is exactly what you're talking about, but for me, this was a situation where i knew i wasn't doing an 'immediate' favor for my friend, but i knew i was doing the right thing and in the long run, maybe doing a really big favor.

ShySlantedEye1 said:

But what about the "mama" that continues to teach and walk the son through intead of letting them learn on their own? I think the mama needs to know when to teach and when let them learn...

Anxiety said:

Oh it is what im talking about Anx and this is a great example buddy....This time interferring was the right thing and saved a life...And with everything situations change and differ, but that line is always there..."Was I right to interfere?" "Should I have let them do this alone?" It can be a difficult decision to make sometimes....

Sinister said:

Shit when puberty hits it is all about a hard head making a soft ass! There are some lessons I wanted to walk my son through so that he would not get hurt but as life goes shit happens. It doesn't help that he has a warped sense of making decisions. I just let him go and pray. When comes home all beat up after making a dumb decision, we discuss pros and cons. I do a lot of praying.

I give you credit Anxiety for taking the initiative to help your friend when things got to “code red”. Up to that point, you apparently did as much as you could (without doing “everything”), but when things got REALLY serious, you got her parents involved – very likely the 2 people who could best help your friend. We could call this “helping” someone, but it seems like you did more than that.

A lot more.

ShySlantedEye1 said:

Sometimes I think those who want to walk everyone through stuff does not have your ablility to see your child or loved one make mistakes and deal with the consequences....You are a rare breed Shy....You discuss things after the mistakes...most parents nowadays let their kids mess up but only out of lazy parenting not any type of "let them learn" lessons....

Sinister, you've had some really great threads on here. Thank you.

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

Thank you very much Your too sweet.....

Just wait until your babies go through puberty! It is rough! I would not wish this on anyone. Some kids can float through it with no problem like my niece and nephews. I thought I had this licked until my baby hit it. Jesus, he is hell on wheels. But love makes me reign his narrow ass in and check him frequently! I can't let him be a statistic. I am sure you feel the same way about your family.

ShySlantedEye1 said:

I only hope my grandparents "Old School" teachings will translate through me to him... no guarantees I know but it's a good foundation....Im a pretty good egg and as long as I teach him how full of shit people are and teach him to recognize that he should be ok....

I had all kinds of old sayings flashback on me when I am pissed at him! Stuff that I swore I would never do, I am doing. Liberal my ass! You are not allowed to close the door to your room unless I do it. You will have chores up the ass! Do not touch the phone or have children calling my house. Absolutely no calls after 8pm. I have to meet every last heathen you run with. Before talking to anyone on the phone I must meet them first. If I catch you cussing I will knock you out in public! That includes your friends! You are not suppose to cuss in front of grown folks. I have become my grumpy Grandmother. God rest her soul!

ShySlantedEye1 said:

Yeah im sure that will be me too lol

See here is the thing...I will help anyone as much as I can. There was this homeless lady that I would see on my way to work every so often and in the winter I would buy her hot chocolate. I have not seen her in a long time thought. She was the nicest lady and always said kind words to me.

Then on the other side of the coin...I am on of those people that will give the shirt off of my back to anyone if they need it. Yet I have been practically skrewed in the end everytime. Except for 1 or 2 people. I can be to nice sometimes...HA me to nice...

Overtime all the getting skrewed over did its damage, I don't trust people like I should, and at the first sight of me possibly getting skrewed over I will tell ya to fuck off.

Dear Sinny,

I have a roommate who persists in leaving fish in the icebox even if he hasn't finished with his fish sticks.

If I help sell him on ebay, will this hinder his ability to help himself?

I find that if I get the right price and collect enough stamps he will be mailed there as soon as Thursday, depending on if I wrapped him in enough bubble wrap.

Sincerely,

Troubled in Texas

subhuman09 said:

Dear Troubled in Texas

Fish are like society....they wiggle about....move their mouths and nothing of interest come out and they smell after 3 days...With that said Ebay fraud is rampant so poor Harold may find himself stolen with no profit for you. I suggest the penguin black market behind the 7-11 over in San Antonio...ask for greasy mike and his cousin the crisco kid....

Sincerely

John Blaze

Sinister said:

Dear Mr. Blaze,

The Crisco Kid was a friend of mine.

Thank you for the heads up about the danger of ebay, perhaps if I leave him on someone's doorstep and wait for them to come home so I can take the money?

As always, your help is greatly appreciated and perhaps I could someday repay the favor.

Funk once, funk twice-funk dat sho feels nice,

subhuman09
a Dreamworks SKG Joint

subhuman09 said:

Dear Troubled in Texas

Crisco drank whiskey and Pancho drank the wine....Damn Pancho...don't get me started....I hope you have a funktabulous evening and remember "Ain't nothing funky unless you play with baba"

Sincerely
John Blaze from Funkytech inc makers of funky thangs to play with

Sinister said:

Sinister said:

Funk you very much!

-the establishment

ShySlantedEye1 said:

This didn't all start since you discovered that he's a black mof didn't it?

Seriously sis, you know that you're a good mum! And you're right some kids need the tough love and others seems to grow up without being screwed up by hormons

Black mof! Yes I have been a mess since I bred the little chocolate mof pain in the ass! I am taking meds and therapy for it. I am just trying to keep his ass together and in one piece. I made a mistake that I will never make again! Please screen all sperm deposits! It can be very dangerous!
I love my boo just not the crazy man linked to his ass!


[Edited 4/26/05 0:05am]

Oohh Sin u really are coming up with the good ones - love it
I'm in this situation now i will try not to go on too much
Ok, i have been friends with this person for 20 plus years, great guy
i can't help but be protective towards him, he came from a bad family and when i first met him, i felt pity, so out came the generosity and this genorisity still continues to this very moment, we bounce off each other quiet well, we both help each other, but i now have realised that in having helped him so much, that in a way i have "crippled" him and its hard for me to let him be an independent, he pretty much is
But i here i stand still waiting to catch him when he falls. Its not a balanced relationship at the moment and i have only realised this in the past week
For myself i have to learn to let go of the "mother" role in me, its not easy as i still want to be there if he needs me but not let him be so dependable on me.
I believe we both have a lesson to learn here about each other and its happening now, i am the type of person that if a friend/family member need help, hey i'm there (playing rescuer), sometimes its not good, cause that person hasn't learnt the lesson by me being there to help
so i suppose depending on the situation u gotta know how much and how far u can help the person and yourself.
With some people its "you give them an inch, they take a mile"
i believe its all about the balance, something which i am learning at the moment.
so yes sometimes by helping another u can be damaging the lessons that they here on this earth to learn not only them but yourself
i suppose u just gotta know when to help and when not to be, say, so helpful
God i could go on but i won't