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Thread started 02/21/05 7:24am

Mach

Raising children as vegans 'unethical'

eek .... strange ...


Raising children as vegans 'unethical', says professor

Sarah Left
Monday February 21, 2005

A leading US nutritionist today claimed that vegetarian and vegan parents are damaging their children's health by denying them meat.
UK experts immediately contested the findings of Professor Lindsay Allen, of the University of California at Davis, and Sir Paul McCartney told the BBC that the claims were "rubbish".

Prof Allen conducted a study of impoverished children in Kenya, and found that adding as little as two spoonfuls of meat a day to their starch-based diets dramatically improved muscle development and mental skills.

Speaking at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, in Washington DC, she said: "Animal source foods have some nutrients which are not found anywhere else.

"If you're talking about feeding young children and pregnant women and lactating women, I would go as far as to say it is unethical to withhold these foods during that period of life. There's a lot of empirical research that will show the very adverse effects on child development of doing that."

Prof Allen was especially critical of parents who imposed a vegan lifestyle on their children, denying them milk, cheese, eggs and butter, as well as meat. "There's absolutely no question that it's unethical for parents to bring up their children as strict vegans," she said.

Sir Paul, a vegetarian for 20 years, telephoned the BBC to dismiss the claims as "rubbish", telling the BBC Radio 2 Jeremy Vine show: "I really do think this is rubbish. I think the medical profession itself, apart from this one person, come to the conclusion that a veggie diet is good for you and can help with colon cancer and stuff, so I suspect these things are engineered by livestock people who have seen sales fall off.


"From my own point of view, it has been a good thing for me and my children, who are no shorter than other children."

However, the British Dietetic Association said the study looked at impoverished, rural children with a poor background diet low in essential nutrients such as zinc, B12 and iron, and its findings were not applicable to vegan children in the developed world.

"There is no evidence that our vegan and vegetarian children in this country suffer impaired development," a spokeswoman for the association said.

She said Prof Allen's assertion that some nutrients could only be obtained from animal sources was incorrect. Even vitamin B12, which is only found in animal products, was used to fortify vegan alternatives such as Marmite.

Vegetarians could obtain sufficient calcium from sesame seeds, nuts and fortified soya milk, and iron from dried fruit and fortified breakfast cereals, the spokeswoman added.

The African study involved 544 children in Kenya, typically aged around seven, whose diet mainly consisted of starchy, low-nutrition corn and bean staples lacking these micronutrients. Over a period of two years, one group of the children was given a daily supplement of two ounces of meat - equivalent to roughly two spoonfuls of mince.

Two other groups received either a cup of milk a day or an oil supplement containing the same amount of energy. The diet of a fourth group was left unaltered.

The changes seen in the children given the meat, and to a lesser extent the milk or oil, were dramatic.

Prof Allen, the director of the US Agricultural Research Service's Western Human Nutrition Research Centre at Davis, said: "It was found that, compared with controls that had no intervention, the meat group had 80% more increase in muscle mass over the two years of the study, and the milk and energy group had 40% more increase in muscle mass.

"In terms of cognitive function, the group that received the meat supplement showed the biggest improvement in fluid intelligence over the two years, and those who had either milk or energy supplements were better than the controls. The group that received the meat supplements were more active in the playground, more talkative and playful, and showed more leadership skills," she said.

Test scores for mental skills improved by 35 points for the meat group and 14 for the milk, while remaining unchanged for the children who received no supplements, she said. Adding either meat or milk to the diets also almost completely eliminated the very high rates of vitamin B12 deficiency previously seen in the children.

"It's important to know that these important benefits to human function and human capital were seen in just two years," Prof Allen added. "Had these children received these foods earlier in life, or their mothers received them when they had been pregnant, or people could receive them throughout their lives, we think that the improvements in human capital development would be even more dramatic."

She said that, although the study had been conducted in a poor African community, its message was highly relevant to people in developed countries. Studies of vegetarians in both the US and Europe had shown that missing out on meat and dairy products could permanently impair a child's development.

Liz O'Neill, the head of communications at the Vegetarian Society, is seven months pregnant with her first child, and said nothing in Prof Allen's research had dissuaded her from the intention of raising her baby as a vegetarian.

"This study should not scare any parents in this country. It's just not relevant," Ms O'Neill said. "Certainly a balanced vegetarian diet will be much healthier than the average meat-eater's diet. As soon as you take something out of your diet, it makes you stop and think about how to replace what is missing."

However, Dr Alastair Sutcliffe, a senior lecturer in paediatrics at University College London, said human ancestry showed that natural diet includes meat and that a diet inclusive of meat was likely to produce a taller, stronger child.

"Whilst I respect a person's ethical decision to eat a vegan diet as an adult, it should be very carefully considered if that is the right decision for a child," Dr Sutcliffe said. He said he believed a vegetarian diet including dairy products would probably be fine for children.

The British Dietetic Association spokeswoman said the study raised the important point that pregnant and breastfeeding women and young children were vulnerable as vegans, and that parents should carefully review their children's diet to ensure they were eating a well-balanced diet.

However, she dismissed as "extreme" Prof Allen's assertion that feeding children a vegan diet was unethical, and recommended parents read the nutrition guides available from the Vegetarian Society to help them plan a balanced diet.
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Reply #1 posted 02/21/05 7:27am

tele

you had to read it to know it's true rolleyes food will make your children feel the same way it makes you r what u eat nod
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Reply #2 posted 02/21/05 7:31am

endorphin74

As noted in the article, the study of kids in poverty-stricken regions is less then generalizable to vegan-kids raised on a healthy diet.

That being said, I think you'd have to be VERY careful to raise a child veg or vegan and provide them the nutrients they need at this stage of life. I'm not saying it's impossible, I just think it would be very tough. If I were to have a kid, I don't think I'd raise them veg. It sounds weird, but I'd allow for some meat and let them make their diet decisions as they grew older. Course, I'm not having kids so I guess this doesn't REALLY apply to me...
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Reply #3 posted 02/21/05 7:33am

PANDURITO

avatar

Most if not all aggresive vegans were raised with meat and milk.

Sir Paul Maccartney's children are in their 30s so they were teenagers when they started their vegan life. neutral
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Reply #4 posted 02/21/05 7:34am

irresistibleb1
tch

disbelief

we've seen what a meat- and dairy-based diet leads to in children: obesity, children with type-2 diabetes, rampant ear infections upper respiratory ailments, to mention only a few symptoms.

raise your children on a meat-based diet, or raise them vegetarian, or raise them vegan - ultimately it's your choice. but be sure that you have all of the information before making your decision.
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Reply #5 posted 02/21/05 7:38am

irresistibleb1
tch

PANDURITO said:

Most if not all aggresive vegans were raised with meat and milk.

Sir Paul Maccartney's children are in their 30s so they were teenagers when they started their vegan life. neutral


lol sorry, but that term just cracked me up. i haven't met an aggressive vegan yet, but hey, they might be out there.

veganism is a relatively new lifestyle, and i grew up on (albeit in limited quantities) pork, butter, dairy of all sorts myself. that doesn't mean that the research on the health benefits isn't valid.

www.pcrm.org is a good source of information on the issue.
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Reply #6 posted 02/21/05 7:38am

Heiress

I think young children should have REAL milk - from their mamas! biggrin

Cow's milk is for baby cows, not humans.
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Reply #7 posted 02/21/05 7:44am

PANDURITO

avatar

bored
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Reply #8 posted 02/21/05 7:44am

OdysseyMiles

Heiress said:

I think young children should have REAL milk - from their mamas! biggrin

Cow's milk is for baby cows, not humans.


Abso-tively.
I also believe that some of the problems mentioned in irresistible's
post are due in part to processed foods as well.
It's all about maintaining a balance.
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Reply #9 posted 02/21/05 7:47am

irresistibleb1
tch

OdysseyMiles said:

Heiress said:

I think young children should have REAL milk - from their mamas! biggrin

Cow's milk is for baby cows, not humans.


Abso-tively.
I also believe that some of the problems mentioned in irresistible's
post are due in part to processed foods as well.
It's all about maintaining a balance.


agreed! nod
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Reply #10 posted 02/21/05 7:54am

OdysseyMiles

irresistibleb1tch said:

OdysseyMiles said:



Abso-tively.
I also believe that some of the problems mentioned in irresistible's
post are due in part to processed foods as well.
It's all about maintaining a balance.


agreed! nod


My wife runs a daycare, and she gets crazy when people bring their kids in at 7:15 a.m. with cookies, fruit roll-ups and assorted sweets already in their hands. Nothing necessarily wrong with that stuff, but first thing in the morning? lol
One girl brought her son in and he was holding a whole bag of Goldfish crackers!!!! All she had to say was "he grabbed these on the way out".
falloff
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Reply #11 posted 02/21/05 7:59am

irresistibleb1
tch

OdysseyMiles said:

irresistibleb1tch said:



agreed! nod


My wife runs a daycare, and she gets crazy when people bring their kids in at 7:15 a.m. with cookies, fruit roll-ups and assorted sweets already in their hands. Nothing necessarily wrong with that stuff, but first thing in the morning? lol
One girl brought her son in and he was holding a whole bag of Goldfish crackers!!!! All she had to say was "he grabbed these on the way out".
falloff


eek funny, nobody calls that "unethical"... lol
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Reply #12 posted 02/21/05 8:12am

EvilWhiteMale

avatar

Kids can't grow up healthy if they start out as vegans. Some parents are lunatics.
"You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." "

Al Pacino- Scarface
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Reply #13 posted 02/21/05 8:17am

Heiress

irresistibleb1tch said:

OdysseyMiles said:



My wife runs a daycare, and she gets crazy when people bring their kids in at 7:15 a.m. with cookies, fruit roll-ups and assorted sweets already in their hands. Nothing necessarily wrong with that stuff, but first thing in the morning? lol
One girl brought her son in and he was holding a whole bag of Goldfish crackers!!!! All she had to say was "he grabbed these on the way out".
falloff


eek funny, nobody calls that "unethical"... lol


wave I do!

For that matter, what ever happened to raisins, apple slices or carrot sticks for kid's snacks? confuse
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Reply #14 posted 02/21/05 8:20am

OdysseyMiles

irresistibleb1tch said:

OdysseyMiles said:



My wife runs a daycare, and she gets crazy when people bring their kids in at 7:15 a.m. with cookies, fruit roll-ups and assorted sweets already in their hands. Nothing necessarily wrong with that stuff, but first thing in the morning? lol
One girl brought her son in and he was holding a whole bag of Goldfish crackers!!!! All she had to say was "he grabbed these on the way out".
falloff


eek funny, nobody calls that "unethical"... lol


Yeah!
I don't even have kids and I'm amazed at how many parents out there appear to have little or no concern for nutrition. They just wanna shut their kids up so they give them whatever they want. Really sad.
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Reply #15 posted 02/21/05 8:26am

irresistibleb1
tch

Heiress said:

irresistibleb1tch said:



eek funny, nobody calls that "unethical"... lol


wave I do!

For that matter, what ever happened to raisins, apple slices or carrot sticks for kid's snacks? confuse


eek you mean kids should eat something other than lard-and-sugar concoctions with lots of garish food colors? but the ads say it's good for them! i mean, really!!
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Reply #16 posted 02/21/05 8:26am

OdysseyMiles

Heiress said:

irresistibleb1tch said:



eek funny, nobody calls that "unethical"... lol


wave I do!

For that matter, what ever happened to raisins, apple slices or carrot sticks for kid's snacks? confuse


Uh....they've been replaced by artificially flavored "fruit snacks". nod
I mean c'mon, who can resist those detailed dinosaur and cartoon shapes.
It's become easier and easier for kids to forsake whole foods and fill up on crap.
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Reply #17 posted 02/21/05 8:27am

irresistibleb1
tch

EvilWhiteMale said:

Kids can't grow up healthy if they start out as vegans. Some parents are lunatics.


lol

stickpoke
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Reply #18 posted 02/21/05 8:28am

EvilWhiteMale

avatar

irresistibleb1tch said:

EvilWhiteMale said:

Kids can't grow up healthy if they start out as vegans. Some parents are lunatics.


lol

stickpoke



Stop that! mad
"You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." "

Al Pacino- Scarface
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Reply #19 posted 02/21/05 8:28am

irresistibleb1
tch

EvilWhiteMale said:

irresistibleb1tch said:



lol

stickpoke



Stop that! mad


lol come on, you know you like it!
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Reply #20 posted 02/21/05 8:28am

Heiress

Hmm, the PERFECT snack is a banana! biggrin

Comes in its own packaging, easy to chew (for little ones) and gives a toddler something to do (getting it all unpeeled). Great fun!
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Reply #21 posted 02/21/05 8:32am

EvilWhiteMale

avatar

irresistibleb1tch said:

EvilWhiteMale said:




Stop that! mad


lol come on, you know you like it!



I'll be the one doing the poking around here.
"You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." "

Al Pacino- Scarface
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Reply #22 posted 02/21/05 8:36am

Heiress

Ya know, another thing I find odd about American children's dietary habits is... little kids don't seem to drink water.

It's either milk, juice or soda.

confuse Am I alone in thinking there's something wrong with this?
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Reply #23 posted 02/21/05 8:37am

irresistibleb1
tch

EvilWhiteMale said:

irresistibleb1tch said:



lol come on, you know you like it!



I'll be the one doing the poking around here.


oh, really?! hmm sounds like a challenge to me! biggrin
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Reply #24 posted 02/21/05 8:38am

irresistibleb1
tch

Heiress said:

Ya know, another thing I find odd about American children's dietary habits is... little kids don't seem to drink water.

It's either milk, juice or soda.

confuse Am I alone in thinking there's something wrong with this?


yeah - it is interesting how the bottled water craze never made it to our kids...
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Reply #25 posted 02/21/05 8:39am

EvilWhiteMale

avatar

irresistibleb1tch said:

EvilWhiteMale said:




I'll be the one doing the poking around here.


oh, really?! hmm sounds like a challenge to me! biggrin


I'm the one with the proper tools. Besides, I'm a giver, not a taker. wink
"You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." "

Al Pacino- Scarface
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Reply #26 posted 02/21/05 8:44am

Dewrede

avatar

Eating meat is unethical ! Meat is murder

However , i don't see anything wrong with dairy products
(if they don't come from mass production)
[Edited 2/21/05 8:47am]
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Reply #27 posted 02/21/05 8:45am

lecoq

avatar

Dewrede said:

Eating meat is unethical !


No it's not.
I know the truth now
I know who you are
And I don't love you anymore
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Reply #28 posted 02/21/05 8:46am

EvilWhiteMale

avatar

Dewrede said:

Eating meat is unethical !



No, it's natural.
"You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." "

Al Pacino- Scarface
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Reply #29 posted 02/21/05 8:48am

Dewrede

avatar

Dewrede said:

Eating meat is unethical ! Meat is murder

However , i don't see anything wrong with dairy products
(if they don't come from mass production)
[Edited 2/21/05 8:47am]



Had to edit


It might be natural there's no need to
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