Ace said:

No, it wouldn't. Because there's no reality in "Reality" TV. An equivalent of non-fiction would be more along the lines of a documentary or the news. Like I said, all "Reality" TV is is a bunch of losers doing stupid crap for money and/or attention. It's pathetic.
Well, what's the value in watching attention-whores eat cow brains? Or compete to marry some asshole they've never met? Or have their faces carved up so they -and their competitors -can look like carbon copies of the same Barbie doll?

meow85 said:

Regardless of how contrived the set-up, there is plenty of reality in reality TV. A great deal more than anything fictional, I would say.

Ace said:

Where? I haven't seen any.

meow85 said:

In the human behaviour you are witnessing.

Ace said:

Do you see that as being a benefit to society? If so, why? Can it be detrimental as well? If so...how?

applekisses said:

Yes, I see it as being a benefit to society, in that you are witnessing real human behaviour (as opposed to the romanticized version of it you usually see in scripted works). It's time we get our heads out of these stylized facsimiles and deal with the real world. To my mind, 99% of the scripted movies and TV shows out there do more harm than good (in terms of the unrealistic ideals and romantic illusions they create).

applekisses said:

Yes. If you're stupid enough to buy into the "happy ending" of shows like The Bachelor/Bachelorette, it can certainly be detrimental. I think there is a lot to be learned from those shows in particular, but all the romantic stuff always makes me want to throw-up.

Ace said:

Well...unfortunately a lot of people ARE stupid enough to buy into that stuff. And they see it as "real" because it's REALITY TV (as opposed to a soap opera that everyone knows is fabricated.)
Also, what about the artificial standard of beauty that's being promoted by shows like "Extreme Makeover"? What is the benefit in that?
[Edited 1/26/05 11:09am]

applekisses said:

We live in a world that favours the beautiful. Banning shows like this will not change that fact. At least it shows all the pain you have to go through when you have that kind of surgery.

Ace said:

I edited my statement...look up

Yes, we do live in a world that favors the beautiful...but, these shows are helping change the standard of beauty to something that is un-natural.

applekisses said:

I don't watch this show, but I suppose it shows you the harsh reality of life and - if you wanted to change your looks through cosmetic surgery - what is involved in that.

applekisses said:

That's already there, thanks to the magic of airbrushing. And cosmetic surgery has been around long before these shows came into existence.

Ace said:

I think you may be missing the more significant impact...the fact that shows like this change the standard of beauty to something that is un-natural and only obtainable through body mutilation or surgery.

Ace said:

But, it's bringing it into the homes of everyday people...10 years ago it was shameful to admit that you'd had plastic surgery, but now it's something people talk about as if they'd just gotten a new haircut.

applekisses said:

What do you think about the statement in bold above?

applekisses said:

They're not changing the standard of beauty. They are showing how some people go about trying to live up to that standard. As for body mutilation, surgery, etc.: people change their looks in all sorts of other ways (e.g. make-up), isn't the difference between that and surgery just a matter of degree?

applekisses said:

If the choice is between them watching The Bachelor and some romantic movie, I'd rather they see The Bachelor. At least you see the truth about human courtship there. I would assume most of these people follow entertainment news, so they will know that these relationships rarely work-out, anyway.

Ace said:

Standards of beauty change all the time and have throughout history. Currently one of the standards that many women are trying to achieve is the very thin build with giant breasts -- ala silicone or saline -- and you can't tell me that something like that can be achieved with makeup.

Ace said:

TRUTH about human courtship?

applekisses said:

Yes. You see that, in reality, how much you "love" somebody and how good a person you are, unfortunately don't have much bearing on whether or not that person wants to fuck you.

applekisses said:

You misunderstand me. What I'm saying is, why is it okay to change your looks via make-up, but not cosmetic surgery?

Ace said:

If that's your reality then I do feel sorry for you.

Ace said:

Because make-up is not permanent and non-evasive. It doesn't change YOU or endanger your life.

applekisses said:

Have you ever seen that Janeane Garafolo monologue where she talks about Chasing Amy? She talks about that scene in the car where Ben Affleck confesses how he feels about her and of course that changes her mind and she falls in love with him. Janeane says, "I mean that's complete bullshit. You want me to fall in love with you? Don't call me."

applekisses said:

What's the difference if it's permanent or not? I don't see people railing against tattoos. As for endangering your life, you probably have greater odds of dying on the road. It's an individual choice. I just think it's hypocritical for people who kill themselves in the gym trying to make themselves beautiful, and spending tons of money on make-up and hairstyling, etc. to say that cosmetic surgery is bad.

Ace said:

Well...that's your opinion. You work out quite a bit...would you have plastic surgery?

applekisses said:

What's shameful about having plastic surgery?

applekisses said:

If I felt I needed it, I wouldn't rule it out. I never say never. Why not?

Ace said:

That you're traumatizing your body, buying into and paying for a standard of beauty that is un-natural to you and don't have enough self-esteem to look at the world and say "fuck you...here I am...love me."

Ace said:

Ah...but, what would tell you if you needed it?