prrtybby said:

Whatever's happening within her, she needs to attend to it without involving you in the proceedings in any way...she needs to address her relationship with her fiance first, then address the origin of her feelings for you secondly (or the other way around...either/or). Becoming more "involved" with you should be much further down the list at this time...

Let her know it's best for the time being if you remain friends, and wish her the best in discovering everything she needs to discover to make the right decisions for her heart..

Byron said:

Can I quote you when I talk to her? I don't think I can put it more straight (pardon the pun) forward without backing down or being harsh.

God, straight people suck. Thank God for Gaydar.

why do straight people suck?

prrtybby said:

Might be a lot for a text message...lol...but be my guest.

prrtybby said:

cuz they're not Gay.

glamslamkid said:

i see

prrtybby said:

oh yeah. Need me to clear that up for you? We have methods.

I managed to stay friends with a stray guy for over thirteen years. It only just fizzled out last September.

He was constantly flirtatious to the point where other (straight) friends in our social circle questioned his sexuality to his face, last year.

I felt like I was having an affair without the sex. I really did feel like his "bit on the side".

The friendship lasted through his marriage, the birth of his son and more besides. All the time I felt like there was a huge glass wall between us which only disappeared when nobody else was around. He had a mask and it finally slipped this Summer whilst we were at a party. I think the thought of his bisexuality being made public terrified him and after his behaviour at the party, he actively went out of his way to distance himself from me.

The week before his son was born we were drunkenly kissing in the back of a taxi-cab. It was so wrong but it felt like his marriage and family were the anomaly - not me.

We used to talk on the phone everyday. Text everyday. Email everyday. See each other everyday on the way home from work in a bar. Now, I've only seen him about five times since this Summer.

I could call him now. We never said "goodbye" and we're still in the same circle of friends but I finally realised that he had no respect for me whatsoever.

I resigned myself to the fact that we'd never be together after his son was born six years ago. The kissing stopped soon after that. He'd still put his arm around me or grab me when he was drunk but it was only ever when he was drunk.

I still love him. I love him as much as I did when I first met him in 1991. I still get the same feeling when he walks into a room - as if all the lights suddenly turn on and my life is in technicolor. But it's not enough anymore. He treated me awfully over one specific incident last October and it broke my heart.

I still wouldn't throw away the last 14 years of memories. However, if I had the chance to do it all again I would have laid my cards on the table much earlier, before he met his future wife. I should have issued an ultimatum.

BinaryJustin said:

That's that shit i'm talking about. Ya'll suck. Kiss my ass. Candy ass breeders.

FunkMistress said:

Unfortunately, if you don't think this could be a long term relationship, and she also claims you are not the only/main reason for their postponement, then I think this is simply a situation of straight girl bi-curiosity. She probably just wants to explore her feelings with you for a while, but then get married to "Joe". If this happens, your friendships (with both of them) will most likely be destroyed, so be very careful in your decision. Good luck hon!

glamslamkid said:

Why all this hostility towards straight folks? Aren't we allowed to be confused sometimes?

glamslamkid said:

I've felt pretty negative towards heterosexual men in general at times, too, Glamslamkid.

But it's probably just bitterness for the broken heart I have suffered in the past, falling in love with straight men. They wanted to be my friend. I wanted to be their man. Now I ain't seeing any of them anymore. Like, who needs them around as a constant reminder that you can't have 'em?

So now I've got a sort of self-protective thing going by not involving myself with straight men at all - certainly no one I feel the slightest bit attracted to. They all can just die! - ha, ha, ha!

I actually do have ONE straight, male friend whom I've known for like twenty years. He's into sci-fi and comics like I am. And I'm not really attracted to him, so it works fine.
[Edited 1/6/05 15:32pm]

BinaryJustin said:

Oh, I'm really sorry to read this, Justin. So that's the cause of your recent depression?

I put an ultimatum to the two straight guys I was so stupid to fall for. They chose ze girlz , of course. But I got on with my life and have never really missed having any of them as friends once I got over the heartache.

scififilmnerd said:

I relate to straight men more than gay men. Every gay man I've ever met seems obsessed with their homosexuality to an extent that I find nauseating. Straight men really don't display their heterosexuality in the same way.

Yes, I know I'm going on about being gay right now, but it's a gay thread.

The stereotypical straight man would be a beer-swilling, sport-watching, tit-grabbing wanker with a downtrodden alcoholic wife and three illegitamate kids.

The stereotypical gay man would be a spritzer-sipping, Madonna-watching, dick grabbing wanker with a bi-polar drug-abusing boyfriend and three closeted fuck-buddies.

Now one stereotype is a hyper-exaggerated generalisation which nobody aspires to and the other is classed as a lifestyle which some people feel like they have to adopt.

Which of these extreme stereotypes do you think I've met in person, more than the other?

prrtybby said:

Nothing.

It is said that some people have a tendency to fall for people they can't have because they can't have them. But I don't think that holds quite true for us gay people. I think it's a case of us falling for someone we like. Unfortunately, God invented heterosexuality, too.

I think most - if not all gay people experience falling in love with a person that just happens to be straight. I think it is a common experience for gay people that just can't be helped because of the simple abundance of straight people in the world. It is our lot in life to learn to live with the fact that some of the people we love the most, we can't have. In fact, I think it's one of the reason so many gay men are single. They have promiscuous sex with other gays while secretly yearning for the straight one they can't/couldn't have.

And, unfortunately, I think that what Anne Rice wrote about vampires holds true for homosexuals too: "Vampires don't really like others of their kind, though their need for immortal companions is desperate."

And that's why some gay men are so obsessed with "straight-looking" gays.

But occassionally, one does hear a story of someone who fell in love with a straight person, and the straight person chose the gay one and they lived happily ever after.

But it is rare. Extremely rare. So if you think your straight friend is worth the risk of heartbreak and heartache, by all means, give it a try, prrtybby. I wish you the best.
[Edited 1/6/05 15:52pm]

scififilmnerd said:

In a word - yes.

I feel like somebody's died.

To cut a long story short...

Let's call him X.

July Me and X drive across the country to attend another friend's 30th birthday party. My boyfriend dumps me because he doesn't like me being around X. He probably had a point.

Whilst at the party, his behaviour gets flirtier and flirtier to the point that he dives on top of me on the couch, looking like he's going to kiss me. Other friends in attendance who had never witnessed this behaviour before, start questioning him, reminding him that he has a wife and child. I get all the blame of course... I really wasn't encouraging him because I was trying to make a go of it with my boyfriend at the time. I didn't realise I was dumped until I got home on the Monday.

September One of X's friends moves into a new home and decides to have a housewarming party. X tells me that there is no party even though other friends have already told me there is. I confront X and ask if there is a party. X replies that there is a party but he lied to me to spare my feelings as I'm not invited. The reason X gives for me not being invited is that the party host is inviting a homophobic friend whom doesn't like queers and the host doesn't want any "trouble".

October The party is the first weekend in October. I haven't spoke to X in weeks as the last few times I've seen him, he seemed distant and I wasn't too happy about his disloyalty to me in attending a party I was disinvited from. I did something bad here... I know X's password to his email. I log in and find a discussion between him and the party host. The host feels guilty about not inviting me, but X advises him: "I wouldn't invite him because you know what Justin's like when he's had a drink - you never know what he's going to come out with". I take a few days off work and lose about 10 pounds weight in a month. I feel completely and utterly betrayed, humiliated and confused.

December Some mutual friends invite me out as it's Christmas - well, the week before. Six of us are sat around a table with me being the only outwardly gay man. I haven't spoken to X for about a month. The night ends with me telling X how upset I am with him and crying as everybody else looks on at me like I'm insane.

Two days after Christmas, I meet him again in the same bar with the same group of friends plus their wives and girlfriends. We chat and he's cordial but not over-friendly. He buys me a couple of beers and as he leaves he puts his hand on my thigh under the table, looks into my eyes and says: "See you later. I've got to go home". Then he's gone.

No - I don't make a habit of looking at other people's emails. I did it the once and wish that I hadn't.

BinaryJustin said:

Why do you think I'm single? I go the gay bars and see no one that seems like a regular person. I go see the latest sci-fi flick and the theatre is packed with hot men. But they're all straight, so I go back to the bars and I still don't see anyone as hot-looking as the men I saw at the sci-fi showing. Sometimes you just can't win...

I also think that one of the reasons some gay men seem to go for "fresh meat" is that they hope to get 'em before they ruined by the gay community - accepting "the lifestyle" and becoming a stereotype. But I like men my own age...

When I was 30 I actually DID fall in love with a gay dude who was 23. He was very open to comics and sci-fi and all my other interests, being quite the intellectual himself. And I thought he was just THE best thing that ever happened. And he said he was monogamous and you really can't say he was a stereotype in any way. Oh, how I so desperately wanted that dude to be with me forever and ever.

But he ran off with someone else.

Now, when I'm 36 and he's 29 and I occasionally run into him at the bars, he looks like a stereotype. Still hot-looking, really, but he's been "damaged" by "the gay life style", I'm afraid. I think that's tragic.

I've always tried to avoid falling into a gay life style, but then my interests aren't typically gay. I'm a nerd and have nerdy friends, so I lean more to the nerdy side. But I'm sure some would say "i'm just an old queen like everybody else". Certainly, sometimes I feel that way myself.

I guess I've given up on finding love.

scififilmnerd said:

I just feel incredibly damaged. I don't feel like I fit in anywhere. Too gay to hang around straight friends, too straight to make gay friends.

I only had a boyfriend last Summer because I met him at work. I don't go to clubs - It really isn't me. I don't see how I'm ever going to meet anybody ever again.

My friendship with X jeapordised my last relationship and now I have neither of them. If I'm honest, I did love X more than the boyfriend but I was trying hard to forget about my feelings. I really was attempting to see X less but the 30th party had been organised months before I met the boyfriend. I couldn't just not go. If the boyfriend had made an effort to meet my friends, I doubt that X would have been jumping all over me.

God, I'm pissed off again.

BinaryJustin said:

I think he's encouraging you because he is flattered by your attention/interest in him.

The same thing happened with the two straight dudes that broke my heart a decade ago. They kept encouraging me - giving me hope. But it was false. Eventually, I lost patience - wanting more, needing more. And I realized that, yes, they liked me but on a platonic level. I'm sure they thought we had some kind of deep, involved friendship, but I wasn't looking for a friend. I was looking for Lovesexy.

So ultimately, it was "fuck me or leave me. I don't wanna keep the bright flame of your ego going, so I'll just stop blowing in the wind." And they left. And it broke my heart and took me years to recover.

But I've never had regrets 'cause any relationship - even a friendly one - has to be mutual. And those relationships weren't mutual. They liked me. I liked them more. And I was the one suffering because my love wasn't good enough for them. They wanted ze girlz. And it's weird because if one of my girlfriends flirted with me, I most definitely would not encourage it. But I guess some straight men take pride in having gay admirers.

I think, even though it's hard, Justin, that it is in your best interest to say "bye bye baby" to X. You'll hurt for a couple of years and maybe it will even remain a sore spot for you - that everytime he's name is mentioned, you'll twitch. But in the end, you won't regret it. At least, I hope you won't.

Anyway, my advice is probably colored by my own experiences.

BinaryJustin said:

Me, too. Aren't we a pair...

scififilmnerd said:

We should be.

prrtybby said:

now, dont be so hard on urself. its unfortunate that it happens, but the fact is that it does. u r not a horrible person. i understand how u feel, really i do (i had something almost similiar happen recently). i guess i would say the most important thing is 2 keep ur friendships strong, even if that means u may have 2 try and push aside any feelings u may feel. it can be very hard, i realize, especially when the other person seems 2 accept ur feelings...just be smart about it, without letting anyone get 2 hurt (including urself)

these r just some of my thoughts...sorry if they come across as random

anemone said:

So you admit that "bisexuality" is confusion. I don't believe in it or accept it as a legitimate sexuality, and i don't care what anybody says. I just had 2 "bi" friends come out this week, and say they're completely gay and their "bisexuality" was just confusion or a phase..and another reason i don't accept it is because they say they can "choose" who they want to be with, which doesn't even fly right by me. There's a whole bunch of other shit that i don't feel like getting into right now, cuz my fingers are frozen and i can hardly type. I don't have any hostility against straight people. It's more like animosity(sp?). Kiss my ass fucking breeders.

glamslamkid said:

its not that i dont love u and all, babe, but why all the ill-feelings towards straight people? i just dont quite understand it, sorry.

darlinkia said:

I don't mean ALL straight people. I love straight people. My mother is straight. I don't hate anybody actually, i just have to keep up with my "angry black gay male" persona here on the org.

Oh dear...

As a postscript to all my rambling, X just phoned me out of the blue.

He's picking me up in thirty minutes with his son and we're driving to town because he wants to buy a new remote control for his satellite system.

I'm going along for the ride. I can't say no to him.

See you all later.

Jus. x

BinaryJustin said:

I am so sorry, sweetie.

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

Thanks, Muffin.

I know I shouldn't see him, but you know. It's hard.

I really thought it was over last week and then I saw him again on Saturday and I just can't break friends with him.