JediMaster said:

This makes perfect sense to me.

Anxiety said:

...burns your santa hat with my eeeeevil eye death-rays

Tell him that they may just be better at those things. It does not have to do with skin color, but it has to do with ability. Whoever posesses that ability, whether African American or not, will succeed. I guess it also has to do with upbringing. I guess more African Americans are into basketball and football, because many of teh players are African American, and yet, most hockey players are white. Therefore, it might have to do with upbringing.

JoweeCoco said:

Black people play sports a whole lot in the neighborhoods...especially basketball.

Try doing that as a kid and growing into it.

Enough time and with a little athletic ability....

You have a star.

I've seen alot of guys who were extremely good athletes.

They never made it out of the hard knocks life.

Enough time at the sports and you'll see a huge difference.

...

JediMaster said:

Except that, Kenia and Cameron (sp?) have been providing world and olympic champions since like forever in droves on long distance running.

SpcMs said:

and haven't most of the winners in the new york and boston marathons been from africa?

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

that's the eighth santa hat i've gone through this month! curse you and your cyborg heat vision!

Anxiety said:

don't make her crush you with her bionic robot hand

thank you all for your answers, some of them serious - others not so much. i think we were right on with our answers as most of you have said the things that we talked about monday night in our living room. funny, when the kids ask me serious questions like that, i always get kinda nervous about the answers that i would have offered. i always try to give my children the very best answers i can, ones that provide a positive approach, a lesson learned, or something they can work towards.... since my son is both black and white, i guess the right answer to give him woulda been - check it out son, either way, you have the best chances out there


thanks guys

I cant float, so I dont swim. Its a fact.

Does me not being able to float have to do with being black? Seriously? A non-black friend told me "Black people can't swim because they can't float" and I didn't know how to take that. I didn't know if he was joking or not. My sister can swim though

RipHer2Shreds said:

It absolutely matters! I think the mantra `it doesn't matter what colour/race you are, we're all the same` is part of the problem.

We're not all the same. There are many differences between races, colours, religions, sexes, cultures, nations, etc, but it doesn't mean that the differences are bad. The sooner we start acknowledging them and discussing them in an intelligent and rational manner, the sooner we can move on.

And it should be pointed out this thread has progressed without a hint of trouble.

doctormcmeekle said:

Dead on.

doctormcmeekle said:

Well, first off I didn't say "it doesn't matter what colour/race you are", and nowhere did I claim that we're all the same. I do not like the implication that something I said is "part of the problem." Please, do not read more than that into my words. I'd be stupid to think that we are not physiologically different from one another. Perhaps a better way to word what I intended was "Why does it matter?"

JoweeCoco said:

Hey, I never said I was completely married to my theory. Just offering a layman's ideas.

Again, I totally agree socioeconomics play a major role in sports -- and more general physical -- aptitude in any society where intellectual, entreprenurial and other investment is undervalued in a given population. Global history has definitely shown that. But while that explains a concentration of certain people in physical careers where other more academically based careers are inaccessible to them, it has some flaws. 1) African American doesn't necessarily equal "poor," so while there may be a disproportionate number of blacks in the NFL, NBA, etc., we can't immediately discount the goodly number of them that come from working-class, middle-class or upper-middle-class families that very much could/would support the pursuit of academically based careers. 2) As a function of population in the U.S., there are far more poor white people than poor people of any other racial group. Yet where is the Appalachian hillbilly contingient, or the single white, urban, non-college degreed parent contingient of the NFL or NBA, for example? 3) Anecdotally, I grew up in a very integrated, financially comfortable suburb, where kids of all races had equal access to any sport and pretty much any career they wanted. Yet something interesting happened: Black kids still dominated in sports like football, basketball, short-range track events (and baseball, when they managed to break down certain longstanding racial conventions in that sport), while our white classmates dominated in things like hockey, wrestling, cross-country track events, skiing, swimming, etc. Of course, I'll be the first to say that the pursuit of certain activities is effected by mere social fashion (Kurtis Blow and Master P, for example, never made raps about hockey), but why would we think our physical aptitudes, like social convention and stratification, don't also greatly effect our activity choices?

SES alone also doesn't at all suspend the simultaneous reality of environmental adaptation. The physiologies of the races are different in some areas: Look at body hair patterns and texture, the differing moisture retention of our skin, the varied diameter of our nostrils for air intake, our varied tolerances to temperature and light, differing cardiovascular and metabolic efficiencies, bone density and musculature, etc. There are obvious variables and exceptions, but clearly people have by and large adapted to the environments in which they spent the better part of the last few tens of thousands of years. AND the fact of genetic manipulation is well-evidenced. Animals have been bred since we've domesticated them to maximize their physiological utilities. We have been successful in making meatier, leaner livestock that are less susceptible to certain diseases; faster, more svelt greyhounds and horses; show animals with the desired contours, colors and facial profiles. It's been no different with humans at certain times: Look at the striking, unique features of certain European extractions, blood disorders peculiar to families tracing lineage to British royals, etc. In the same vein, not only the marketing, but the actual pedigreeing, of enslaved Africans for hundreds of years is remarkably documented and accessible to the public. I'm not making this stuff up. That had an obvious effect on labor efficiencies for centuries. Why would it suddenly stop?

I'm not saying certain races have certain "super powers," but I absolutely believe that performance in certain areas is due to a mix of factors like SES, cultural norms and expectations and... yes... nature. And many scientists agree.
[Edited 12/15/04 8:12am]

I should concede at this point that I, a black dude, can swim my butt off, while my jumper is crap.

Lammastide said:

well, thank you for all your great words here, i think you're right on about most everything you said

Janfriend said:

interesting i tried to teach my sons father to swim... i thought it was sad that he had never learned... i did get to the point with him that he felt comfortable swimming, though i thought it was interesting that i could never get him to float. i held him in the water several times on his back and tried to get him to relax.. but everytime he sank like a rock

all is well though... he went on to be able to take his NEW girlfriend snorkling in the bahamas and he called me to tell me thanks !! yeah, he was a bastard

Janfriend said:

Yes it does.

Bone density is higher in black people than white people, and in men than women. So if you're a black male, you may well have more problems swimming than a white female. It will take more effort for you to keep afloat.

nakedpianoplayer said:

Men simply can not float dear.

JoweeCoco said:

thats not true





is it ?

RipHer2Shreds said:

I actually thought about this when I was at work, and I realised my post could have been construed as a go at you. Not my intention. Apologies for that.

It can't be of recent biological evolution for evolution doesn't go that fast !
Neither is it the bone structure, the difference in weight varies never more then 500 grams.
I've never heard of breeding people in the way dogs are bred, but if so, you should question whether it would have the same effect because there is by origion not as much diversion in humans as in dogs.
Ofcourse there is difference in "race" but we still have to keep in mind that that is because of a longggg evolution forced on men by it's enviroment.

If evolution would make dark people superior in sports they would stand the cold eazily too

Oh, and floating is just a technique.
The only thing that helps is fat, something women have more then men (also for biological reasons)

What is realy interesting is how evolution is going to proceed now that we've almost made it possible to live our life with litle environemental influence.

Hmmmm !!

Fhunkin said:

Darwinian Evoilution as we understand it is no longer happening to humans. There are too many external variables at play now.

Fhunkin said:

Don't forget that the fact that male and female bodies are shaped differently (shoulder-hip proportions) also plays a role in that.

PREDOMINANT said:

Says who ?
Where can I read about that ?

JoweeCoco said:

True, now tell me can you float

nakedpianoplayer said:

it has to do with muscle mass as well. many olympic swimmers can't float because they are just too muscular. but fatties have no problem floating at all.