bkw said:

Actually, shouldn't babies be in car seats? Or some sort of protective seating that straps them in?

For me, I feel about children kinda like I feel about dogs. If they're someone else's and they're well behaved, then great!
I have no problem with children in child friendly environments. I have a problem when people bring small children to places they don't belong. This includes certain movies, certain restaurants, out past their bedtime, etc.

bkw said:

No, a baby can sit in an FAA-approved car seat that's belted into the airplane seat. If the plane experiences serious turbulence (e.g., the plane suddenly drops a few hundred feet), or if the plane crashes, the laws of physics kick in, and it becomes impossible for the parent to hold onto the baby. You wouldn't hold a lap baby in your car... why do it on an airplane?

BTW, infant tickets are often available at a discount.

I've been there! But, I've always taken them outside or to the restroom to settle them down when they were that age, or taken the food as carry-out if they simply couldn't calm down. I'd like to say it was done out of respect for everyone else in the restaurant, but it was more to save myself from the embarrassment and angry looks...

And, I've also been known to leave if someone has a child that's screaming or acting up quite a lot and the parents aren't doing anything about it but letting the child scream.

Lap babies? Are they like lap dogs? I've never heard that term before!

AzureStarr said:

U.S. airlines generally allow children under two years old to fly in an adult's lap for free (domestically) or for 10% of an adult ticket (internationally).

matt said:

Yes, that I'm aware of. I've just never heard the term "lap baby" before. It just made me laugh... reminded me of a "lap dog".

AzureStarr said:

It's airline and frequent flyer jargon.

I always just sit up at the bar, or in the smoking section. That gets rid of most of the screaming kids right there.

Our church has a "kids room" with soundproof glass for families with noisy kids to sit during the liturgy. Then someone comes into the room and passes out communion.

Poor little guy was probably tired.

matt said:

Okay, that's certainly different to here in Australia. There are no special seats here, you have to nurse them on your lap, although they give you small seatbelts that fit into your own seat belt to hold them down.

I imagine that the FAA seats would only be used for take-off and landing by most parents as kids that age wont sit on their own for too long usually.

CarrieMpls said:

I agree with that in a general sense.

I'm just concerned with the anti-child sentiments from some people on this thread.

Ahh I deal with kids all day long. I remeber one time a couple of weeks ago...this girl threw the biggest fit and would not take off one of our props dresses. You could hear her screaming all through the damn mall...that made for some good pictures. Anyway they only way her parents could get the dress off of her was by her dad holding her upside down and her mom pulling it off while she was still kicking and screaming all to holy hell. This is what I deal with everyday at work....spoiled little rich bratty kids...that do not know how to smile for a fucking picture until you make a total ass out of yourself.

AzureStarr said:[quote]I've been there! But, I've always taken them outside or to the restroom to settle them down when they were that age, or taken the food as carry-out if they simply couldn't calm down. I'd like to say it was done out of respect for everyone else in the restaurant, but it was more to save myself from the embarrassment and angry looks...




Heather, that's usually what I try to do as well


Smooches;)

kiss85 said:

He got a whooping that night

I don't think that I'm a passive parent, but as someone else has mentioned, you can't alienate children. I refuse to NOT take my son out, otherwise how will he learn the appropriate way to act in public?


Smooches;)


Smooches;)

in situations like that, it makes me wanna slap the parents. i cannot count how many times i've seen kids and their folks at the store or in any public setting, and the kid's actin up and the parents really don't do anything about it. the way i was raised, when you go to the store you didn't ask for nothing, and you didn't dare act a fool in public....

Co-sign, that's how I was raised as well. And if I or my brothers DID act up in public, it would result in a swift smack on the behind.

psychodelicide said:

It's nice to think of what you would do in such situations, but it is not always possible or appropriate to smack a kid in public.....on the behind or anywhere else for that matter.

It will be funny when some of you childless orgers have children someday and have to deal with these issues. Maybe then you all will be a bit more understanding


Smooches;)

psychodelicide said:

i know dat's right!! WANNA GIVE MOMMA SOME LIP?? SHE BREAK OUT DA WHIP!! GEECHEE GEECHEE GEEDOW!!!

MsMisha319 said:

Psychodelicide: Like Misha said, it's not always appropriate to smack a child in public. Back then it was "okay" to smack an unruly child on the behind in public. It's frowned upon now and you get many stares if you were to do it in public (having done it before, the expressions you receive are ones of onlookers having just witnessed your ripping your childs head off and stomping it to mush on the store floor). People are completely disgusted with you for your hand having contact with a little butt cheek or a hand.

Also, I agree with you Misha on those that don't have kids perhaps changing their tune when they do. It's different when you have your own. You're so used to the loud voices, the little tantrums, the "Mamma, WATCH, WATCH MAAAAAMMMMAAA!" etc., that, as a parent, you sort of learn to tune it all out, not thinking quickly enough that it is really bothering others in the area. Once you snap back to reality and tune back in, most parents will deal with it and do what they have to do to settle things down. Of course, there are those parents that never tune back in...



.
[Edited 12/10/04 9:24am]

MsMisha319 said:

my folks never raised a hand to me...they made it understood that i didn't act up in public, tho'. it ain't that hard to do.


not really.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Not really, though. It can be difficult to do, especially with a baby. You can't explain to an infant how they should act in public. And, I think it really depends on the child as they grow older.

There are parents out there that do everything they can to raise respectful, well-mannered children, and it simply doesn't work. A friend of mine has a son that has a mind of his own and he's tried everything... nothing is working. He simply doesn't want to listen.

All children could be raised the same exact way, down to every little detail, and not all children would behave in the same manner. So, it is difficult. Thankfully, my two don't act up in public anymore, but when they were in their earlier years, there were tantrums and when children have them, a lot of the time there is nothing you could do to stop them from having them.

Of course, there are parents that don't try and simply let their childen do what they want, when they want, and act up whenever they want, but to say that it isn't difficult to do, it really can be quite difficult.

bkw said:

You can buy those child seatbelts here in the States too... but apparently the FAA disallows their use during take-off and landing!

Coincidentally, I'm posting this from the airport. Usually you have to pay $7 per day for Wi-Fi access, but somebody is running an open network today named "Test." Well, I'm happy to test it for them at no charge.

AzureStarr said:

True, I understand that it's not the right thing to do in public, but there are ways to handle kids who misbehave. I don't have kids, but I have watched my brother and his sister-in-law discipline their kids. If one of their kids misbehaves at my mom's house, for instance, instead of spanking them in front of everybody, they will take them into the bathroom or into another room to do it. Understandably, if you are out in a public place, there may not be a place in which to spank your child (if that is your way of disciplining kids, some people don't spank). But there are other ways to deal with it, as Handclaps said in her previous post. I have also noticed that my brother and sister-in-law don't tolerate it when their kids start hollering or making noise, they tell them to be quiet. The kids know that if they don't shut up, they will be punished. I know it's not easy to discipline kids, it's a 24/7 job, no doubt about that, but there are ways to get your kids to settle down and behave.

MsMisha319 said:

No, I NEVER said that I would smack a child in public, but I would tell the kid that if he/she didn't settle down, she would be punished later. I don't think it's a matter of people without kids misunderstanding, but just a matter of people having different opinions as far as how children should be disciplined when they act up.

glamslamkid said:

Yup, I heard that. When I was growing up, spanking kids in public was not frowned upon like it is now.

psychodelicide said:

Yes, there are many ways to get kids to settle down and behave... some kids just won't behave. What works for one child may not work for the next and so on. But, there are those children that, no matter what you try, simply will not listen.

My friend's boy is a perfect example of this. His other children are very well-mannered, him and his wife are together and have raised their children in the same manner... this little boy of his, who is a complete terror, simply won't listen to anyone - his parents, the teachers, etc. He takes the punishment, what ever it is, and it means nothing to him. He knows that there isn't anything that anyone can do to him really, other than spanking, taking away this or that, or being sent to his room, etc.. In fact, he told the teacher that the other day, I guess when sent to the office. He told them that there wasn't anything that anyone could do to make him do his work. His parents are at wits end.

I dunno... my whole thing is the reaction as if it isn't difficult at all to bring up a child who is well-behaved. Thankfully, I didn't have much of a problem with my two, but I see it happen and feel horrible for parents who are trying and it's simply not working. It's not always easy, like you said, but it can't always be corrected, and by no fault of the parents.

Telling a child to stop "or else", doesn't always work and you can't always leave your child at home.

(Pretty kitty, by the way, on the other thread)

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Same here. I was spanked only twice in my life...other than that I was taught to behave...my parents spent the time with me to teach me the rules.

I'm offended when the children are having tantrums (screaming bloody mary) and parents don't remove their children to calm them down.

sag10 said:

i agree. the other patrons at the restaurant do NOT want their meal disturbed by an unruly child, they aren't just paying for the food, they're paying for the atmosphere as well. i feel for the child, but imo when a child begins misbehaving it is time for him/her to be removed from the scene.

Ugh.

I understand that kids don't have off-buttons. You can't just "make them stop." Different kids do have different temperments; I don't think I ever threw a fit in public when I was old enough to understand the word "no", but my sister. . .man. Nightmare. And we were raised by the same two people!

And when I go to certain places (family and/or fast-food restaurants, kids movies, Disneyland, malls) I expect there will be kids there. Sometimes I even enjoy watching them. Rarely, but it happens!

However. I think parents have to realize that having kids comes with some sacrafices, including NOT going to certain places with the kids (eg. nice restaurants, most movies, many cafes and bookstores, etc.). And unless you are at Chuck-E-Cheese, the kids don't get to run around and make noise as a way of "keeping them busy." If they can't sit and be quiet, and that's what is required at that sort of establishment, then you need to either not go there or accept that sometimes you will have to leave early, meaning that you spent money on something you won't get to enjoy. Sorry, but what's fair: you don't get to enjoy a meal you paid for because of YOUR kids, or I don't get to enjoy a meal I paid for because of YOUR kids?

Example: I went to a fairly nice restaurant last night with my husband. We're talking cloth napkins, candlelight, and $18 entrees, but no dress code or valet parking. Follow me? Now, this place has a large dining room with booth seating, and then a smaller, more romantic room closed off from the dining room. The smaller room is prettier and quieter. When you come in, they ask you where you want to sit. So we go to sit in that room, and what do you know, there are two little kids running in circles around the fountain in the middle!

DAMMIT! Why would you take your kids into the pretty room? There was plenty of space in the dining room. Answer: the parents didn't give a fuck about anybody else, THEY wanted to sit in the pretty room. Sorry, you decided to breed, you don't get to sit in pretty rooms for 12 or 15 years. That's your problem. Don't make it mine.

AND, repeat after me: employees are NOT BABYSITTERS. Working reception at a vet hospital, parents made us deal with their bratty kids constantly. They would make noise, freak out the animals, make a mess of the lobby, and parents acted like it was our job to watch the kids while they were in appointments and clean up after they left. Fuck that! If your sick dog pukes, fine, I'll clean it up. This is a business for sick dogs. But if your sick kid pukes, clean it up your own damn self.


I can be sympathetic when kids are being noisy/cranky in public and parents are stuck and are trying to deal with it (public transportation is a good example), but in situations where parents are basically being selfish and inconsiderate. . .grrr. . .

XxAxX said:

Exactly. Take 'em to rock concert if they wanna scream like that.