The original thread is no longer able to "reply with quote" so I'm posting here

Click here for the Link to the original thread: http://www.prince.org/msg/100/114206

So last week I printed out 5 copies of my initial post to share with others. I came home and was pressed for time so I put down my things and freshened up right quick and ran out of the house not remembering that I had left my post laying out. Well the next day I found out that my sister (the one who is still dealing with her abusive boyfried) read it. She read it aloud to my brother and read a portion to my mother. I had wanted to share it with my family but being that it is so personal I had to figure out how to approach it because we don't really talk about these things.

There is a line in my post where I said the following:



I wanted to preface that before giving it to my mom to read and now I discover that my mother read the whole post. My brother's reaction was to say "so you got your fingers smashed in the door when you were 4? That sucks". My sister really had no reaction other than to laugh that she had read 1/2 the post before figuring out that it was something I wrote. My sister told me that she had read some of it to my mother and that she said that I was making some things up. I asked my sister if she said what I was making up and she said that my mom said she was never mollested. As if I need to make up stories and use my families as props.

So the next day I talked with my mother about the letter. I feared that she was going to be in denial and defensive and we talked for 4 hours and had a beautiful conversation We have always talked about the horror of some of our family experiences but never in this depth. The first thing I told my mother was that I had wanted to talk with her about the post before she read it because I didn't want her to take anything the wrong way, namely that I said I didn't want to be like her in the way she dealt with my father. I told her that my father should be kissing every inch of every piece of ground she ever walked on that she has anything to do with him considering the abuse he heaped on her during their marriage. She understood where I was coming from and didn't take it the wrong way.

I told her that my sister told me that she had said I was making things up and I told her that I could have sworn that she told me she was molested by her uncle and that I appologize if I got it wrong. Then she admitted that she had been molested by her unlce and I told her that I knew she had told me that before. I understand why she thought she had not been molested. I think she was thinking of her past experience in the context of the worst molestation in our family where my cousins at 8 and 11 were actually raped by a family friend. My mother clarified that her uncle tried to french kiss her and had felt her up a couple times. I told her that the degree of molestation does not matter and that molestation is molestation. She agreed. I felt relieved that I was able to vindicate my memory. The last thing I would want is for my family to feel like I'm just using them for my own sake.

My mother commented on how beautifully written she thought my post was. Funny because I forgot that my mother used to write. She was telling me that she loved reading it from the creative standpoint. She said "you got that from me and I got that from my mom" and it's true. I love to write. Love love love it. I had totally forgotten that both my grandmother and my mother used to write as young women. My mother said that since she didn't have the time to write like she used to that she could live vicariously through me. She told me how proud she was that something I previously wrote got published (my prince.org post "our clothes our hair we don't care-you can read it here http://www.prince.org/msg...msg_895308 just search "supa" and it's my 2nd post in the thread) and that I should see about getting this published as well. I told her that is exactly what I was trying to do . My mom is proud of my writing

Overall we had a wonderful conversation. It felt great to be able to get all that stuff out in the open. I was even able to use the conversation to address my sexuality, which my mother still has trouble talking about. I ended the night by letting her hear the message my friend left on my voice mail and we ended with hugs and I love yous. Now I just gotta talk to my sister, or at least let her know I'm here to talk when she needs/wants to. My sister is and always has been a guarded kind of person. She's not open emotionally like I am. I have always wished that we could be closer because people who come from the same ovaries and womb are supposed to be close. Hopefully this will be the thing that brings us tight. I love my sister and know she loves me too, I just hope this can be the beginning of a different relationship as adults.

I have submitted my post for consideration to several local gay publications. I'll let you guys know if it gets accepted for publication. I did want to say thank you to everyone who participated in that thread and to everyone who contacted me personally about it. I feel like this is an open door that will lead me to places I know I'm supposed to be. On the mountaintop of triumph and hope. And once I'm there it will be my cause to bring others with me.

Love,
Supa

Supa i am glad that your thread has not only helped other people but helped shed light in your family.


You still are in my eyes an amazing person

That was an awesome thread.

It sounds like it was good for everyone.

Tell your mom we are so on her side.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy wrote:

I didn't see your original post Supa, as I haven't been online much over the past year, but it has affected me greatly now I've seen it ... not only your posts but others, such as Teacher, Heiress, Vina, Polka, Azure and all the other people who have shared snippets of their stories with us through their posts.

To be honest, it amazed me to see how many people here have hailed from abusive backgrounds. I had problems in my childhood, but they are insignificant compared to what I've read here.

Congratulations to you all ... you're all survivors and are deserving of respect for that.

I've quoted above something that Supes wrote because I think the world would be a better place if we were all less judgemental about other people. Nobody but us really knows what has brought us to this place in time, what life experiences we have had to endure, or what we have to offer.

Thankyou for an inspirational thread, and thankyou to all of you whose lives I have just read about for sharing your experiences.

xxx

Oh, sweetheart... It sounds to me that this might be the begining of a healing...
As I've said before...you're so open and honest with your feelings...and you express them with love. You're a very brave soul, Richie...and I love you for that (and other things too! )

Wanna thank U again for letting me make that phonecall What a wonderfull way of saying thank U

OMG! Look what I just got in my in-box!



Looks like I'm gonna get published

super...you rock!!!


are are the orgs orange moon...


SHINE BRIGHTER AND BRIGHTER MY FRIEND!!!

Congratulations Richard! ... on everything, the writing, the talk with your mom, the publishing.

I'm proud of you!

Congrats Supa!

It took so much strength to be able to be that open about it, which I've noticed comes naturally to you.

I'm just glad you're doing better now and I think your story can definitely help others.

Hope things continue to go well!

Becuase of Supa's thread, and his encouragement and support, He fixed a major regret in my life, and 4 that I'll always be eternally grateful. He's also my bestest bestest Org buddy.

Can't wait 2 see u next year baby!

First off, what a wonderful thing to be able to share with your mother, even under different terms than you expected. It's interesting to read as I've got a similar situation goin on with my own mom. There was a time I lost all respect for my mother, allowing my father to treat her the way he has, for not being stronger and bringing me and my brother out of it, etc. and the older I got and the more I got to know my mom as a person and not just a mom I learned some of the reasons for her behaviour and that she really is a damn strong woman. She has her own ways of fighting back and keeping herself together. I still struggle with them sometimes (just today my mother had to borrow money from me, yet again, and god forbid my father find out they are in over their heads financially despite the fact that they both work full time and my father's salery has got to be at least 3 times my own...), but I at least understand where she's coming from these days.

And for being published!! Hot damn! I truly hope you continue to write and continue to submit work. It takes a lot of courage to put yourself out there like that.

And, as always, thanks for sharing with us.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

OMG!!! That's so awesome!! (Plus, I do freelance stuff too and the rate they're paying you isn't bad at all!) Congrats hon!

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

AWE-fukin-SUM !!

awww Supa, I'm so happy for you ~ that you had that wonderful talk with your mother and that you are getting published! I got all teary eyed reading yor post

~ Gretch

You guys!!!

I can't really even begin to explain how much impact that thread is having on my life and on the lives of many close friends, and even strangers. I honestly thought I was putting it out there for others and that I really didn't need that much from it. Turns out, I needed a lot from it and all of you happen to give me some of what I need.

I feel like this is the beginning of something very very good. I listen to others or read accounts where people lay themselves bare and it amazes my spirit to do the same. When you bring the darkness into the light, it can no longer exist as darkness. The light is always stronger.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

it is. it is indeed. that post touched many people and was probably a healing of sorts for you. you are a very special human being, my friend, and have a way with words that is very eloquent yet personal. you reach out to others and that shows a lot in one's character.

keep on rising...it sounds like there is more good things to come...and more discoveries about yourself.

take care and have a good weekend.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Thank you Richard, for just being you

Thanks Supa

I am glad that your post and sharing your feelings with us has lead to honesty,love and undersatnding for your family. Love to you all

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

That's sooo cool Supa, (are you gonna send them your avvie )

Supa, I'm sooooo glad you were able to talk to you Mom about all of what's happened in the past and that it went well for you. I pray that you and your family continue to get any kind of healing from what's happened. And a big ole congratulations that your story's about to be published. I'm so excited for you believe me. Lives are really being touched by this and I'm one of them. Thanks again for sharing your story.

You da man Supa!!!!!
[Edited 11/20/04 2:25am]

Richard, you are fab and I love you.

Holy shit dude. I've just gotten around to this. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I don't know how I missed it the first time around. I'm still putting my thoughts together and I will get back to this. But for now let me just say that it is very rare and special what you are doing. I'm proud of you.

that's awesome.

A history lesson is in order…..

My mother had me and my sister Natalie with my father. After he left, my mother met the father of my brother Steven. She got pregnant by him and he offered to marry her but he was a real creep so she figured out that he wasn't what she wanted for her and her kids. When I was 10 she met my stepfather and by the time I was 12 they married. She had my sister Alison when I was 12 and my brother Matthew when I was 14. The order of siblings is myself, Natalie, Steven, Alison, Mathew.

My sister Natalie, my brother Steven and I had things rough. My mother as a single mother could not provide us with all the things we wanted and even some of the things we needed. Up until I was 10 I shared the same bed with my brother and sister. My sister Natalie, my brother and I all grew up with the brunt of the dysfunction. I witnessed my parents fights but my sister Natalie was too young to remember them. My brother Steven got a little further away from the dysfunction but still had to be around so much chaos at my aunts house as my mother had her baby-sit us while she was at work. It was her only option.

My aunt made a lot of poor choices in her life and had many drifters, addicts and god-knows who else living in the house. It was where she got most of her income. It should be said that her first husband was killed in a car crash and she lost everything and she just never recovered from it, emotionally but especially financially. The next man she met was a con artist and when she was getting back on her feet he ran away with the little life savings she managed to start putting away. Her life just spiraled and she never gained control again.

While my 2 siblings and I had a home to go to where we were fed and as comfy as my mother could make it, my poor cousins (to the aunt I speak of above) starved and were constantly around all sorts of harmful elements. There was open drug and alcohol abuse and my 2 cousins were raped by a family friend and the abuse went on for months. When my cousins told my aunt she just said to lock the door. It did not work and he just broke in. Well my aunt testified against her daughters in court to save her own ass, even though she knew the molestation/rapes were happening. It was more important for her to not lose the income than protect her own children. Sad but true.

My cousins stole and broke into catering trucks and snack shacks to eat. There was never any food in that house. Whatever my aunt did buy was immediately consumed by whatever freak drifter addict happened to live there at the moment. We were exposed to all of this but at least at the end of the day we had a loving caring mother to take us away from it and into a home where we were loved, fed and cared for. I have told my mother how much I appreciate, respect and love her for doing that for us.

When my mother had my youngest siblings Alison and Matthew, she was married to my step dad and they decided that she would quit working and become a stay-at-home mom, something she couldn't be with me, Natalie and Steven. Before she quit working, after paying for day care for Alison and Matthew she had a whopping $40 left over from her paychecks. Basically she was working just to pay for daycare. So my stepdad decided that we could live without that $40 a week and so my mom stayed home with Alison and Matthew. That right there stopped the cycle for those 2.

Well.....as I describe earlier in this post, my article was read by my sister Natalie to my brother Steven and then my mother read it…...all of the people that lived the hellish dysfunction firsthand. So I decided to give it to my little sister Alison. She never had to go through the things that the older 3 of us have. She was raised with parents who did not fight. She was not raised at my aunts and never had to be exposed to all the riff-raff that lived there. She had the life we should have had. For that I have always been thankful.

My sister Natalie and brother Steven have always been jealous of the younger two, but I never ever have been. Perhaps it's because I'm the oldest. I feel a protection for them and of anyone in the family I got the worst deal. By virtue of the fact that I'm older I've been through more, seen more, got less. I have never been bitter about that. I love my brothers and sisters like I love myself. I love just them to death.

My sister Natalie has 3 kids and like me, she was too close to the dysfunction and carried it on into their own lives by being with their abusive father. She’s still with him. My baby sister Alison is now going to be a mother to the next generation of our family. Before I gave her my letter, I spoke to her for about a couple hours. She’s 23 and this is really the first time we’ve talked about the intersection of the lives we lived vs. the life she and my youngest brother lived. I wanted to talk with her first because there is just so much of our history that she doesn’t know and so much that she never went through.


Rewind……..In the original thread I tell about how I got on the bus one day to go home and saw my father in the front seat after not having seen him for 5 years. Well that was the imputes for my father coming back into our lives completely. He started coming around to see my sister and her kids. She only lived 3 houses down from my mother. When he would come to see my sister my mom would lock herself in her room. She was unable to face him.

One day she was out at the Ice cream truck buying candies and ice creams for the kids and my dad came walking over. He was coming on one of his visits to my sister and the kids. She totally freaked out because he caught her off guard. She couldn’t just run away. They said hello and that was the beginning of their being friends again.

Well not too long after they got back in contact again, I drove to the store with my mother and I asked her how she felt about seeing my dad again. She just broke down in sobs and confessed to me that she was still in love with him. 20 years later. She told me how she never was in love with my stepdad. She said that she loved him but that she was not in love with him. She explained that my she had gotten pregnant with my sister Alison and that Vern (my stepdad) told her that he would marry her and take care of her, the future baby and her 3 kids. She told him then that she wasn’t in love with him but he said he would make her love him. Being that she had 3 kids, she did the motherly thing and decided to act not in her own best interest but in the interest of me, Natalie and Steven. Giving us the life we never had.

So after all these years she sees my dad and knows she never stopped loving him. This is something I knew even before she ever told me. It wasn’t that she acted like she didn’t love my stepdad. She did. My mom is the kind of wife that will not refuse sex to her husband because she believes that is his right.....even if she's not receiving her own pleasure. She’s the kind that will cook and make sure he always has clean clothes. But she was never the partner that my step-dad deserved. Her heart belonged to someone else.

I began by explaining to my baby sister why I wrote the post. I started telling her about some of the family history she never lived and how that helped to shape my own life and the choices I made, including staying with a man who abused me. I told her about my experience and I told her why the older 3 of us were much more vulnerable than she and our youngest brother. They had the family structure we never had. I explained to her the part in my initial post where I said the following:



I explained to her how much my father betrayed us all and that he was lucky that my mother, or us, ever had anything to do with him again. This took place in the first 15 minutes of conversing with her. She just came out and said that she had broken up with her last boyfriend for the same exact reason I stated in my post. That she didn’t want to be my mother, but this time as she saw it in her own life. Being with someone she wasn’t in love with. It’s funny how parents stay together for the kids, which is what my mother and stepdad did (on top of being religious and thinking divorce is not an option). The kids always know what is going on. Kids are not dumb…..

So she and I had a really amazing conversation. Talking about all kinds of things I knew.....and that she knew too. I am so happy that we had that conversation because it really is the bridge between the divide of experiences. I truly look forward to my new nephew (who will be the same sign as me. We’ll be the only Pisces in the whole family ) Along with possibly being published, the original post has had me engaging with my family in ways that we never have before. Thank you God I love you. And I love my family