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 I have a firm grip on reality...Maybe just not this reality   |
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 [Edited 11/22/04 1:48am] | |
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Sweeny79 said: Steadwood said: For Security in Life and in Love.....and Hopefully....To Share
There is no such this as security. Helen Keller said it best: Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure. You can't love or share without being married?  Sorry for above post...org on go slow! I was making a general comment Sweeny, on why a lot of people seem to Marry.....It didn't work for me..
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Some people love someone that they marry coz they want to grow old with someone and they do not want to be alone. 
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture! REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince "I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben |
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moderatorSweeny79 said: When you enter into any "life long"relationship, a child, a husband etc, part of or all of you is tied to that other person, you have to then put that other ahead of yourself and your own personal needs and desires. Like the song says "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose" and I agree with that with my whole heart, if you have something or someone you are not free because you have to behave in a certain way as not to lose that someone or something.I definitely see where MarySharon is coming from.
I was thinking about thread this afternoon and I really examined my own desire to be married. I think it is fear that motivates me to want to find someone and settle down. The fear of being alone, the fear of being looked at as an outcast, or as less than other women. Not sure how it works for men, but women who are unwed seem to be looked down upon. We constantly hear "When are you going to get married???" from our mothers, our co workers, complete freaking strangers!!! There is a lot of pressure for us to "bag a man" before we get "too old" My own personal views on marriage are muddled. I do fall victim to societies terms of normalcy and expectancy when it comes to matrimony, but ultimately in my heart I doubt I ever will wed. Much like my decision to not have children, I feel (fear?) that having another person saddled to me for the rest of my life would end up a disaster.  Is there any place of refuge one can flee from this insanity | |
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Steadwood said: Sweeny79 said: There is no such this as security. Helen Keller said it best: Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure. You can't love or share without being married? Sorry for above post...org on go slow! I was making a general comment Sweeny, on why a lot of people seem to Marry.....It didn't work for me..
I know hon  I was just trying to say that marriage does not ensure any of those things, security, love or sharing, unfortunately  It would make this life a whole lot easier if it did.  In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. |
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MarySharon said: Sweeny79 said: When you enter into any "life long"relationship, a child, a husband etc, part of or all of you is tied to that other person, you have to then put that other ahead of yourself and your own personal needs and desires. Like the song says "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose" and I agree with that with my whole heart, if you have something or someone you are not free because you have to behave in a certain way as not to lose that someone or something.I definitely see where MarySharon is coming from.
I was thinking about thread this afternoon and I really examined my own desire to be married. I think it is fear that motivates me to want to find someone and settle down. The fear of being alone, the fear of being looked at as an outcast, or as less than other women. Not sure how it works for men, but women who are unwed seem to be looked down upon. We constantly hear "When are you going to get married???" from our mothers, our co workers, complete freaking strangers!!! There is a lot of pressure for us to "bag a man" before we get "too old" My own personal views on marriage are muddled. I do fall victim to societies terms of normalcy and expectancy when it comes to matrimony, but ultimately in my heart I doubt I ever will wed. Much like my decision to not have children, I feel (fear?) that having another person saddled to me for the rest of my life would end up a disaster. Zank you darlink!  In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. |
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luv4u said: Some people love someone that they marry coz they want to grow old with someone and they do not want to be alone.
"There comes a road in everyman's life, a road that he's AFRAID to walk on alone.. I'm here to tell ya I'm at that road, and I'd rather walk it with you then to walk it alone.." In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. |
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Gotta love it when someone tries to cover the reason people get married with a one liner.  | |
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damnedifido said: This is a touchy subject for me. I am so sad for my husband, I am in limbo, been together 17yrs ,since i was 13, he is so caring, loving and a great dad, I hate this thread.....my heads a mess.....I just hope u can all experience the love I have had in my life, 17 yrs together , 1 little girl and complete faith he has in me.... I just want to be alone .....me and my girl.....how mean is that?
very,very mean Not mean at all.
We all change, we all strive for something better, do be something better. In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. |
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JoweeCoco said: Gotta love it when someone tries to cover the reason people get married with a one liner.
I think that's the point in Byron's thread hon, there are so many many reasons ... I think it's good we think about and talk about them. In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. |
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Sweeny79 said: When you enter into any "life long"relationship, a child, a husband etc, part of or all of you is tied to that other person, you have to then put that other ahead of yourself and your own personal needs and desires. Like the song says "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose" and I agree with that with my whole heart, if you have something or someone you are not free because you have to behave in a certain way as not to lose that someone or something.I definitely see where MarySharon is coming from.
I was thinking about thread this afternoon and I really examined my own desire to be married. I think it is fear that motivates me to want to find someone and settle down. The fear of being alone, the fear of being looked at as an outcast, or as less than other women. Not sure how it works for men, but women who are unwed seem to be looked down upon. We constantly hear "When are you going to get married???" from our mothers, our co workers, complete freaking strangers!!! There is a lot of pressure for us to "bag a man" before we get "too old" My own personal views on marriage are muddled. I do fall victim to societies terms of normalcy and expectancy when it comes to matrimony, but ultimately in my heart I doubt I ever will wed. Much like my decision to not have children, I feel (fear?) that having another person saddled to me for the rest of my life would end up a disaster.  From a single womans perspective, I must say that being in your 30's and unmarried presents some interesting societal stereotypes in which I have to be confronted with on daily bases. One thing is for sure, I would damned if I settled and just married whom ever just to be married and beat the clock(have kids). Without a Doubt, I definitely won't play the Star Jones desperation rule just to get married and appease society and family.
 " I'm living the single life." [Edited 11/20/04 16:44pm] | |
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Hotlegs said: Sweeny79 said: When you enter into any "life long"relationship, a child, a husband etc, part of or all of you is tied to that other person, you have to then put that other ahead of yourself and your own personal needs and desires. Like the song says "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose" and I agree with that with my whole heart, if you have something or someone you are not free because you have to behave in a certain way as not to lose that someone or something.I definitely see where MarySharon is coming from.
I was thinking about thread this afternoon and I really examined my own desire to be married. I think it is fear that motivates me to want to find someone and settle down. The fear of being alone, the fear of being looked at as an outcast, or as less than other women. Not sure how it works for men, but women who are unwed seem to be looked down upon. We constantly hear "When are you going to get married???" from our mothers, our co workers, complete freaking strangers!!! There is a lot of pressure for us to "bag a man" before we get "too old" My own personal views on marriage are muddled. I do fall victim to societies terms of normalcy and expectancy when it comes to matrimony, but ultimately in my heart I doubt I ever will wed. Much like my decision to not have children, I feel (fear?) that having another person saddled to me for the rest of my life would end up a disaster. From a single womans perspective, I must say that being in your 30's and unmarried presents some interesting societal stereotypes in which I have to be confronted with on daily bases. One thing is for sure, I would damned if I settled and just married whom ever just to be married and beat the clock(have kids). Eventhough I don't look Star Jones, I definitely won't play the desperation rule just to get married and appease society and family.
" I'm living the single life."
[Edited 11/20/04 16:42pm] I like you lots In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. |
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Byron said: Or, perhaps its main point was to say that those two desires--finding your greatest love and eliminating your greatest fear--can never go hand in hand...
...I dunno..lol..it just was a thought-provoking quotation. I'm gonna say this one last thing and then step away before this becomes a thread about my own personal issues  ...
In my limited experience,earth shaking, soul quaking, mind changing, healthy true love leads us to confront and hopefully overcome our biggest, deepest rooted, longest held fears and issues. Never does this pure love lead us to hide from them. This is why so many people turn thier backs on true love,they cant handle facing those demons. On the other hand,marriage does, in some cases, allow people to hide from those same demons. ok better log out now In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. |
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This has got to be thread of the year Bryon.
Marysharon and Sweeny's posts got to me on this topic, you two have your head on and it's refreshing to read. Thanks for giving me hope in the opposite sex, it's really a roller coaster ride when you're in your mid 30's. First love or fear, that depends on how strong you are and I'll be an old man with too many cats before I'll marry out of fear of loneliness. Love and not society or family pressure is what being with someone for the rest of your life is about, IMO. I agree with the single lifestyle things that I enjoy but that is also true about not having a roommate at all. The way I look it, I need to work on a friendship so I know the person good enough to accept them for their faults as well as the things I like about them. At this point, the stupid little shit doesn't matter because the relationship with my friend is all that I hold up as important to me. As we all know by having good and bad experiences, that friendship which I'm describing doesn't happen everyday. Then it takes a little bit of a back seat when kids come but never completely because a foundation for the relationship has been built to last. Thanks again Bryon for the deep topic, it's good talk about. | |
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Sweeny and MarySharon, you've both touched on a lot of the reasons why I'm not much for marriage, particularly for myself. Marriage in general seems to be a trap for women in so many ways yet so beneficial for men. (I believe there's a statistic out there showing that married men tend to live longer than single men, yet single women tend to live longer than married women. That one always made me think...) Throughout time women have lost themselves in the role of wife and mother. Not to say those aren't admirable and necessary roles in society, I just think there are so many things we can be and do, we don't need to limit ourselves. I've just seen so few real life examples of marriage being a beneficial thing in a woman's life. Not to say it doesn't happen (and when it does, it's downright beautiful!), it's just so few... |
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Sweeny79 said: When you enter into any "life long"relationship, a child, a husband etc, part of or all of you is tied to that other person, you have to then put that other ahead of yourself and your own personal needs and desires. Like the song says "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose" and I agree with that with my whole heart, if you have something or someone you are not free because you have to behave in a certain way as not to lose that someone or something.I definitely see where MarySharon is coming from.
I was thinking about thread this afternoon and I really examined my own desire to be married. I think it is fear that motivates me to want to find someone and settle down. The fear of being alone, the fear of being looked at as an outcast, or as less than other women. Not sure how it works for men, but women who are unwed seem to be looked down upon. We constantly hear "When are you going to get married???" from our mothers, our co workers, complete freaking strangers!!! There is a lot of pressure for us to "bag a man" before we get "too old" My own personal views on marriage are muddled. I do fall victim to societies terms of normalcy and expectancy when it comes to matrimony, but ultimately in my heart I doubt I ever will wed. Much like my decision to not have children, I feel (fear?) that having another person saddled to me for the rest of my life would end up a disaster. I understand that. for Sweeny.
Yes, men run into the same kinds of judgments. I've been battling them for most of my adulthood. Because I'm "the marrying kind." The pressure to get hitched, especially once you've reached a certain age (at least the 30s, maybe earlier, dpepending on your background), can be overwhelming. I've fielded the "When are you getting married?" question from relatives, old friends, their parents and the like at family events, friends' weddings, company outings, etc. All while I've seen relationship after relationship end. That sounds a lot more passive than is true -- I ended most of those relationships -- a fact some of my relatives bring up fairly often. It's to the point that I try my best not to get tangled into a discussion about my romantic life with them. I, personally, look forward to getting married (and have ever since I was a teen). Just haven't found the right woman yet. And, if I never do, well, God is faithful. I'll deal. His grace is sufficient. (2 Corinthians 12) | |
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Sweeny79 said: Hotlegs said: From a single womans perspective, I must say that being in your 30's and unmarried presents some interesting societal stereotypes in which I have to be confronted with on daily bases. One thing is for sure, I would damned if I settled and just married whom ever just to be married and beat the clock(have kids). Eventhough I don't look Star Jones, I definitely won't play the desperation rule just to get married and appease society and family.
" I'm living the single life."
[Edited 11/20/04 16:42pm] I like you lots I like the way she worked Star Jones into it SAME HERE    I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it | |
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damnedifido said: This is a touchy subject for me. I am so sad for my husband, I am in limbo, been together 17yrs ,since i was 13, he is so caring, loving and a great dad, I hate this thread.....my heads a mess.....I just hope u can all experience the love I have had in my life, 17 yrs together , 1 little girl and complete faith he has in me.... I just want to be alone .....me and my girl.....how mean is that?
very,very mean It's not about "mean" - it's about growth & being the person you want to be, creating the life you want.
It's fantastic when people can be together for a long time & grow together, but it's pretty rare too (at least it seems to be to me). Don't feel bad b/c you may not want this marriage anymore but do (please do) ask yourself why you want to be alone & if that's truly what you want. Maybe you're just in a rut & need to breathe some new life into the relationship, reconnect... Maybe you need to take a vacation alone, just get away for a while... or, maybe it's all run it's course for you. Whatever you do give it a lot of thought & do what you think is best for yourself & your child (which may be two different things, but who said life ain't complicated).  Whatever happens, I wish you luck & TRUE happiness
. [Edited 11/20/04 20:45pm] I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it | |
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MarySharon said: Byron said: What freedoms do you fear losing??... The freedom to make dinner whenever I want without having a man yelling "what's for dinner?". The freedom to make a laundry at 3 a.m. without being scared to wake someone. The freedom to go attending a party and coming back whenever I want without having to call someone and go like "Sorry I'll be back later" and "where have u been all this time?" stuff. The freedom to go shopping for groceries whenever I want without having a man complaining "why the hell is this fridge empty?" The freedom to cry whenever I feel the need without looking for somewhere to hide. The freedom to possess my own place, and the freedom to say "fuck you, get out of here" to someone whenever I want without having to share a place with someone. The freedom to enjoy good times with my lovers without being called a whore. The freedom to go and seeing with people I care for whenever I want (they know who they are  )
I know all this stuff can sound pretty selfish and egomaniac but my mistrustful nature leads me to this behaviour and way of life. I don't wanna belong to the weak ones tribe, my strength is my pride and fucking the world is the only way to survive. fucking spelling!! [Edited 11/20/04 12:27pm] Doesn't sound selfish to me It does sound like you have a certain view of marriage though, like it's very much about control & expectations from the man. Hell, maybe it is But it doesn't have to be (I hope, or I'll end up divorced!) - depends on who you enter into the marriage with...
As for the lovers, yes that would most likely have to change I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it | |
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Reading this thread it looks like a lot of people do not get married because of their biggest fear.
I never thought I'd get married. Never thought I would want to have kids, but it's amazing how much can change in only a few years. You know you've found the right person when he or she makes your biggest fears not so scary after all. | |
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Byron said: Read a quote not too long ago, that says this:
"We marry either out of our greatest love our out of our greatest fear.." How true do you think this is?... I think it's true. Where did you get that quote? | |
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Marriage can be a blessing, if u choose correctly and do not just settle. By dat i mean, u follow ur heart and don't let outside parties be involved. So many things influence this opinion!! My parents are divorced. For them, they came from a time and place i believe it was just da thing to do. It's sad cause they were actually like chalk n cheese and that caused some awful consequences! Unfortunately i was in da middle of it Yeah so i believe ya gotta got wif da and no less. You don't have to marry out of fear. Though there are alotta people who do. I think it's so much more meaningful if u actually really just wanna be wif da person, cause they make u happy. No hablo espanol,no! 
Pero hablo ingles..ssii muy muy bien...
"Come into my world..."
Missy Quote of da Month: "yeah, sure, that's cool...wait WHAT?! " | |
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AndGodCreatedMe said:  My head is gonna explode now....thx Leena another thought to think off!
You are welcome | |
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MarySharon said: Byron said: What freedoms do you fear losing??... The freedom to make dinner whenever I want without having a man yelling "what's for dinner?". The freedom to make a laundry at 3 a.m. without being scared to wake someone. The freedom to go attending a party and coming back whenever I want without having to call someone and go like "Sorry I'll be back later" and "where have u been all this time?" stuff. The freedom to go shopping for groceries whenever I want without having a man complaining "why the hell is this fridge empty?" The freedom to cry whenever I feel the need without looking for somewhere to hide. The freedom to possess my own place, and the freedom to say "fuck you, get out of here" to someone whenever I want without having to share a place with someone. The freedom to enjoy good times with my lovers without being called a whore. The freedom to go and seeing with people I care for whenever I want (they know who they are )
I know all this stuff can sound pretty selfish and egomaniac but my mistrustful nature leads me to this behaviour and way of life. I don't wanna belong to the weak ones tribe, my strength is my pride and fucking the world is the only way to survive. fucking spelling!! [Edited 11/20/04 12:27pm] HOLY SHIT ... with a man like that .. who would act/treat you as such
NO WONDER it seems like loosing your freedom to marry ... damn ewwww ~shudders~ who wants to spend their life with a "daddy" insecure type anyway ...
dont marry him RUUUNNNNN !! | |
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CalhounSq said: MarySharon said: The freedom to make dinner whenever I want without having a man yelling "what's for dinner?". The freedom to make a laundry at 3 a.m. without being scared to wake someone. The freedom to go attending a party and coming back whenever I want without having to call someone and go like "Sorry I'll be back later" and "where have u been all this time?" stuff. The freedom to go shopping for groceries whenever I want without having a man complaining "why the hell is this fridge empty?" The freedom to cry whenever I feel the need without looking for somewhere to hide. The freedom to possess my own place, and the freedom to say "fuck you, get out of here" to someone whenever I want without having to share a place with someone. The freedom to enjoy good times with my lovers without being called a whore. The freedom to go and seeing with people I care for whenever I want (they know who they are )
I know all this stuff can sound pretty selfish and egomaniac but my mistrustful nature leads me to this behaviour and way of life. I don't wanna belong to the weak ones tribe, my strength is my pride and fucking the world is the only way to survive. fucking spelling!! [Edited 11/20/04 12:27pm] Doesn't sound selfish to me It does sound like you have a certain view of marriage though, like it's very much about control & expectations from the man. Hell, maybe it is But it doesn't have to be (I hope, or I'll end up divorced!) - depends on who you enter into the marriage with...
As for the lovers, yes that would most likely have to change not all men are such ways ... not all woman live in "servitude" after vows this whole thing blows my mind and i thank the GODDESSES and GODS i am not involved in a marraige like these been with the same man ... a WODERFUL human ... for 19 yrs and never have felt the way some have expressed here about marriage i'm blessed i guess | |
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JoweeCoco said: Gotta love it when someone tries to cover the reason people get married with a one liner.
Byron's signature is really important i feel; in relation to the topic of Marriage. *=> I don't look back...it keeps me from focusing on the now. And "now" is what's important...
The word which arose the most in this thread was FREEDOM. P.S. Could you Orgnote me, anyone, when you discover what Freedom is.
I'm happily Divorced, once happily Married. Plus i love being a Daddy these day's..... 'tiz enough after all, i don't wanna be a siamese twin , we all have our agenda's. By that i mean; to be "A SELF"(not selfish), and to LIVE, as Byron put it:NOW.(plus later on, and before, getting confused, NOW...
damnedifido said: This is a touchy subject for me. I am so sad for my husband, I am in limbo, been together 17yrs ,since i was 13, he is so caring, loving and a great dad, I hate this thread.....my heads a mess.....I just hope u can all experience the love I have had in my life, 17 yrs together , 1 little girl and complete faith he has in me.... I just want to be alone .....me and my girl.....how mean is that?
I dunno "how mean is that". Your a person, and it's what YOU feel. .P.S. Your daughter is his child also. Mach said: ...been with the same man ... a WODERFUL human ... for 19 yrs and never have felt the way some have expressed here about marriage ...
Love isn't a perpetual orgasm, the honeymoon does end. Happiness doesn't have to though ! They're my personal thought's . Funnily enough my ex-wife is one of my best friends these day's .I wouldn't have said that 3 years ago; and it's been a journey through hell, but i'm here NOW.  [Edited 11/21/04 5:44am] ~PClinuxOS~  I've been here longer than I care to remember, ... I drop in from time to time, ... | |
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Mach said: CalhounSq said: Doesn't sound selfish to me It does sound like you have a certain view of marriage though, like it's very much about control & expectations from the man. Hell, maybe it is But it doesn't have to be (I hope, or I'll end up divorced!) - depends on who you enter into the marriage with...
As for the lovers, yes that would most likely have to change not all men are such ways ... not all woman live in "servitude" after vows this whole thing blows my mind and i thank the GODDESSES and GODS i am not involved in a marraige like these been with the same man ... a WODERFUL human ... for 19 yrs and never have felt the way some have expressed here about marriage i'm blessed i guess I didn't mean to imply that ALL marriages would end up with the woman in servitude. I know that there are many people out there who have happy healthy productive marriages. It's just that most people do not have what you very well may. In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. |
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CarrieMpls said: Sweeny and MarySharon, you've both touched on a lot of the reasons why I'm not much for marriage, particularly for myself. Marriage in general seems to be a trap for women in so many ways yet so beneficial for men. (I believe there's a statistic out there showing that married men tend to live longer than single men, yet single women tend to live longer than married women. That one always made me think...) Throughout time women have lost themselves in the role of wife and mother. Not to say those aren't admirable and necessary roles in society, I just think there are so many things we can be and do, we don't need to limit ourselves. I've just seen so few real life examples of marriage being a beneficial thing in a woman's life. Not to say it doesn't happen (and when it does, it's downright beautiful!), it's just so few...
 In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. |
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ThreadBare said: Sweeny79 said: When you enter into any "life long"relationship, a child, a husband etc, part of or all of you is tied to that other person, you have to then put that other ahead of yourself and your own personal needs and desires. Like the song says "freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose" and I agree with that with my whole heart, if you have something or someone you are not free because you have to behave in a certain way as not to lose that someone or something.I definitely see where MarySharon is coming from.
I was thinking about thread this afternoon and I really examined my own desire to be married. I think it is fear that motivates me to want to find someone and settle down. The fear of being alone, the fear of being looked at as an outcast, or as less than other women. Not sure how it works for men, but women who are unwed seem to be looked down upon. We constantly hear "When are you going to get married???" from our mothers, our co workers, complete freaking strangers!!! There is a lot of pressure for us to "bag a man" before we get "too old" My own personal views on marriage are muddled. I do fall victim to societies terms of normalcy and expectancy when it comes to matrimony, but ultimately in my heart I doubt I ever will wed. Much like my decision to not have children, I feel (fear?) that having another person saddled to me for the rest of my life would end up a disaster. I understand that. for Sweeny.
Yes, men run into the same kinds of judgments. I've been battling them for most of my adulthood. Because I'm "the marrying kind." The pressure to get hitched, especially once you've reached a certain age (at least the 30s, maybe earlier, dpepending on your background), can be overwhelming. I've fielded the "When are you getting married?" question from relatives, old friends, their parents and the like at family events, friends' weddings, company outings, etc. All while I've seen relationship after relationship end. That sounds a lot more passive than is true -- I ended most of those relationships -- a fact some of my relatives bring up fairly often. It's to the point that I try my best not to get tangled into a discussion about my romantic life with them. I, personally, look forward to getting married (and have ever since I was a teen). Just haven't found the right woman yet. And, if I never do, well, God is faithful. I'll deal. His grace is sufficient. (2 Corinthians 12) for you threadbare.
I love what you quoted, very beautiful In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. |
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