"Real women have curves."

I think most, if not everyone here, has heard this line. I have a problem with it.

Why?

Well, first and foremost, it implies that skinny women are less feminine and less attractive than curvy women. There's also a more subtle accusation that if curvy women have poor body image, it's skinny women's fault for making them feel bad. I'm skinny even for my smaller-than-Prince size, and I'm often on the receiving end of dirty looks from curvy and even average proportioned women in change rooms, locker rooms, etc. I've had complete strangers ask me if I have an eating disorder. It's no fun.

Secondly, at a time when approximately 60 per cent of North American adults are considered overweight, maybe it isn't the best message to be sending to anyone?

Perhaps a more appropriate line would be "Real women are proud of who they are." ?

I love that line

applekisses said:

Thanks

U know what, you're absolutely right!!! My own mum became subject to paranoia based on lame comments made my disgusting male shitheads at her work about the woman body. She felt inadequate cause of her tinyness. So ridiculous, cause i spent my childhood thinkin how nice it would be if i had da same body as my mum when i grow up- she's gorgeous, and i aint just sayin dat. I think a balanced approach is much more desirable, who knowz maybe one day there will be some sort of "all body type" liberation with women's magazines who try hard to emphasise on either end of da spectrum!!

Ya never know, u just don't.

meow85 said:

You're welcome and I'm sorry for any size-descrimiation that you've encountered. I think any of us that don't fit the media's ideal (whether we're shorter, taller or fuller) do run into that...and it's heart-breaking...I know

But, in defense of the "Real Women Have Curves" line...I'll post this:


The notion of "aesthetic conversion"--the process by which images of timeless femininity can transform an individual's perception of beauty--is just one example of concept pertaining to size celebration which has a noble pedigree.

Consider the following passage from Nietzsche's seminal masterwork, Die froehliche Wissenschaft ("The Joyful Wisdom")--the book in which the philosopher famously exhorted his readers to "live dangerously." In the following excerpt, Nietzsche uses an analogy based on music to explain how one "learns to love." But try substituting the example of a musical figure with the notion of a womanly figure, and note how the treatise then delineates the exact process by which one learns to love the full-figured ideal--even in the midst of a media world that opposes it:


This is what happens to us in music: First one has to learn to hear a figure and melody at all, to detect and distinguish it, to isolate it and delimit it as a separate life.
Then it requires some exertion and good will to tolerate it in spite of its strangeness, to be patient with its appearance and expression, and kindhearted about its oddity.

Finally, there comes a moment when we are used to it, when we wait for it, when we sense that we should miss it if it were missing; and now it continues to compel and enchant us relentlessly until we have become its humble and enraptured lovers who desire nothing better from the world than it, and only it.

Similarly, anyone progressing along the path to size celebration must first identify plus-size beauty as a separate aesthetic ideal, distinct from the media's underweight standard.

Next, this "new" idea of beauty provides the viewer with an aesthetic challenge, something that stirs him into awareness. He cannot ignore it. It attracts his full attention.

Subsequently, it displaces the underweight paradigm in the viewer's perception as the aesthetic norm of feminine appearance.

And finally, at the "celebration" stage--the stage of true body love--the viewer acknowledges his preference for this ideal, compared to which the old media standard looks unattractive and unnatural.




But this process is more than just an exercise in abstraction. Nietzsche also explains how it enables a plus-size goddess to appreciate her own beauty:


But that is what happens to us not only in music. That is how we have learned to love all things that we now love . . . Even those who love themselves will have learned it in this way; for there is no other way. Love, too, has to be learned.
Know yourself. Learn to love yourself. How different this counsel sounds from the self-destructive "Change yourself" message that the mass media trumpets unendingly.

Time and again, we see that the best way to shatter modern myths about weight and beauty is to look past the distortions of the current age, and to contemplate the ideals of the past, which shine on, clear and undimmed, providing a beacon for the future. -HSG
[Edited 11/10/04 23:11pm]

Excellently stated.

Speaking as another thin woman whose experienced the "Do you have ANOREXIA??" as well as other such insensitive, rude remarks regarding my weight - in addition to almost identical experiences as the ones you mentioned in your post - I really appreciate what you said, and I agree with you.

I also love the "Real women are proud of who they are." line.

Also, I think you ladies have been subject to rude comments from other women because of backlash...you have the bodies that the media idealizes and worships. If ALL women push to make a change in that so that ALL women are represented and appreciated then the backlash would stop.
You are the victims of jealousy...that is much different than being seen as a second-class citizen (which many plus-size people are.)

SnowQueen said:

Agreed !

ppl have called me plenty of names becuz I am thin ... I am what I am, how and when did body type become an insite to ur status as a woman anyways

"Real Women are proud of who they are" Im gonna use that next time

This is why "Real Women Have Curves" exists:


Men suffer from curve-o-phobic media brainwashing as much as women do. In today's society, individuals of both genders are bombarded throughout their lives with images that idealize female emaciation. Not only does this indoctrinate women into thinking that this is how they should look (even though their hunger pangs tell them otherwise), it also indoctrinates men into thinking that this is how the women whom they find attractive should look (even though their hearts tell them otherwise).

Sadly, many men deny their natural preference for timeless femininity in favour of the prescribed modern standard, for fear of being ridiculed by their peers, their family, or by anyone else in their lives who is still at the mercy of media illusions.

For more couples to "find each other" and achieve happiness, men must break free of the "mind-forg'd manacles" that fetter them, and embrace their natural preference.

But the will-to-consensus in the human psyche is strong, and only an even-more-powerful force can overcome it. And one such force is certainly . . . love.

Men, if they have any honour whatsoever, will defend whatever or whomever they love to their last breath, even in the face of ridicule and opposition. No, especially in the face of ridicule and opposition, and in equal measure to the vehemence with which others disparage the objects of their adoration.

A heightened love of Classical beauty will compel men to overcome their impulse to conform, and will motivate them to stand fast in their convictions. This newfound resolve will set an example to their peers, who will follow them in rejecting societal delusions, no matter how pervasive such delusions may be.

Today, as many men as women should be actively condemning the media for its institutional size prejudice, and for its glorification of thinness, and leading the charge for a restoration of the natural feminine ideal. We hope that the images collected at this site inspires more men to take a principled stand of this nature.

Honour demands that they do no less.

applekisses said:

That's an excellent point.

Personally, I've never thought of full-figured women as less attractive just because society says they are. (Cosmo says you're fat, I ain't down with that... )

Standards of beauty vary so much in different cultures and in different times. Compare even 50 years ago to what's going on today. Marilyn Monroe was considered one of the most beautiful, most desirable, sexiest women in the world. Now she'd be a "plus-size". At a time when Vogue has the audacity to call Pink and Gwen Stefani fat, Ms. Monroe would be made to feel like a whale.

applekisses said:

Very well said.

I'm by no means trying to compare my experience to what I know many bigger people go through, but it's no more fun. Like you said, we should be pushing toward a climate where all women are seen as beautiful and worthy, not just the 1 in 1000 that happen to fit the current ideal.

CanvasBeauty said:

I guess my real problem with the phrase is the word "real".

It doesn't just imply, but outright states that if you are not curvy, you are less than a woman.

... I just like Real Women...

We come in all shapes and sizes. Too many people feel under pressure to look like they just fell out of a fashion magazine. It's dispicable.

Cloudbuster said:

subhuman09 said:

Cloudbuster said:

subhuman09 said:

Cloudbuster said:

Fat birds.

doctormcmeekle said:

Like turkeys? Everyone loves a fat turkey!

meow85 said:

I never thought of it as a put down to thin women. I always looked at it as a slogan that was meant to empower those who weren't the spitting image of the women shown in billboards, ads, magazines, movies, commercials, television shows, etc. It's just my take on it, but I think just because it's aimed at a certain portion of the population doesn't necessarily imply that it's negating another. I don't know you, but I don't doubt that you get comments about your body. So do heavyset people - very, very frequently.

That said, any of these slogans aimed at women (or even men, for that matter) of a certain type, always end up being devisive. How can you make an entire population see the problem when you're only addressing a portion of it? The real issue is your own self-esteem and why something - be it an ad, a slogan, a film or a comment - makes you feel the way you do. I'm learning more and more these days that it's much easier to address a problem by changing your reaction to it first. Once you get there, then the root of the problem is easier to grasp.

CarrieMpls said:

Chicken, duck...Cornish Hen?

RipHer2Shreds said:

You are just too awesome

applekisses said:

Sometimes I can be alright

If someone teases you for being too thin, and makes that remark, ask them if every roll in their stomach counts as an extra curve...

Gay men do this as well unfortunately. If you put on a pound or two, which is hardly even noticeable, they still seem to notice and act like you just put on 50. If you're too thin, they ask who's stitching your quilt...

Tom said:

Tom said:

I like that one