....but see Before Sunrise first if you haven't already.

This is the rare case where the sequel is even better than the original. Easily the best film of the year. Out on DVD November 9.

Anyone else seen the original or this one?

Warning: SPOILER AHEAD



































Yes, I've seen both. And while I feel they are a cut above the usual, I still have some problems with them; namely that no one finds it problematic that the Ethan Hawke character is married. I mean, just because it's a "bad" marriage, does that give him licence to cheat? There is a little thing called "divorce", I believe.
[Edited 11/15/04 9:41am]
Typo-edit
[Edited 11/15/04 14:19pm]

Ace said:

Yes, but that's the point. It turns the original upside down, because now they have to deal with reality.

Once again, there is an ambiguous ending. I think they'll both revert to the rigid frameworks of their lives, but for that brief moment they recaptured the essence of their youth. That's what the look in his eyes was in the next-to-last shot.

Although I do think he might opt to divorce his wife. But I think that would have happened regardless of Celine, considering the situation he was in.
[Edited 11/15/04 10:52am]

MORE SPOILER CONTENT:

VoicesCarry said:

So, you don't think they fucked?

NO SPOILERS HERE! SAFE TO READ!

Just thought I'd add a little post for those not wanting to know too much about the film.

Hiya, how are you!

OKAY, BACK TO THE SPOILERS!

Ace said:

SPOILERS

Hard to tell. If they did, he'd leave his wife. But he would have done so anyway. I consider it a major problem for them to work out, but not a major problem for his character's integrity.

That is, of course, why the ending's ambiguous - you can put whatever spin you like on it.
[Edited 11/15/04 11:12am]

Warning: STILL SPOILING!

VoicesCarry said:

If they did, don't you think maybe he's doing things in the reverse order? Even if they didn't, I would say there's some major emotional cheating going on here. To paraphrase our very own lollyp0p, 'You know what's right. You know what you shouldn't do.' Would he be acting like this with this girl if his wife were around? No. If his marriage were so bad and he wasn't leaving it for this girl, he should have left it already.


Disagree (see above). Why is it that we excuse ethical lapses if the character who does the lapsing is "in love"? Hollywood romances (of which this is certainly one, even though it's draped in indie rags) use this shit all the time. Tell me: if your partner came home from Europe and said, "Listen, honey...I want a divorce; I've reunited with my true love", would you say, "Oh, she's your true love? Why didn't you say so? Of course it's alright." LOL.

It's just more Hollywood bullshit. And - I just remembered - it's totally made-up. But it does present an interesting topic for an ethics discussion.

Ace said:

EVEN MORE SPOILERS!

And then there's the flip side of the coin: lying to his spouse about his feelings is emotionally deceptive in a different way. The union is doomed to fail. Obviously he is searching for a way out and he knows that he made a mistake with the marriage. I disagree with you that it's a Hollywood romance in indie clothing. If it were, the characters would be acting conventionally, and we wouldn't have this situation - he wouldn't be married and it would be the first film all over again, with no complications and a tearful embrace at the end. That's what makes the film unique - there isn't an easy solution to their problems, now, and they're bitter and frustrated. The key scene is really the scene in the car.

And I was not implying that there would be an easy solution with his wife, either. His reluctance shows that he understands that.

Remember that in a Hollywood flick, the one who lapses is always Meg Ryan's/Sandra Bullock's/Diane Lane's cheating no-good husband who leaves her at the beginning of the flick so she can go and meet her dream dude.
[Edited 11/15/04 11:58am]

VoicesCarry said:

Then why is he still in it? The excuse he gives her ('It's for the kids') doesn't wash if he intends to leave her for this girl. Your comment that "lying to his spouse about his feelings is emotionally deceptive in a different way" doesn't hold water with me; it's just rationalization.


And you think there aren't many Hollywood films about someone "torn between two lovers"?


Reluctance-schmeluctance; he's cheating on his wife emotionally and definitely comtemplating (if he hasn't actually done the deed) cheating on her physically, as well.



Not so.

This is a Hollywood flick (not that "indie" flicks are exempt from this kinda stuff).

Ace said:

Guess we see things differently, then.

VoicesCarry said:

Guess so.

I've seen them both and they are both pretentious drivel. I was dragged to see both of them. There is no way this is the best movie of anything, let alone this year.