Bacon!

irresistibleb1tch said:

Very well said.

Yeah, u know i for one have alwayz disliked meat from a kid. Da moment my dad told me where meat came from, thingz radically changed and I viewed meat as gory and meat marketz as torture chamberz!! True true I do eat some meat, dat being mainly chicken, and little bit of lean mince beef (and even that i'm funny about) but i alwayz prefer vegetarian alternativez!! Once i'm outta home, i can't see myself cooking or eating very much or any meat at allz!! I think by then i'll truly be a full-blown vegetarian (or atleast close to it)

Nice to see this thread get so many replies and
get y'all thinking

I started being vegetarian when i was around 7
I heard how they breed calves that stay in small boxes
and never get to see the light of day , that's when i realized how sick it is


I've recently heard about a pig's heart that was transplanted succesfully into a monkey ,so it might have been a human too

Doesn't that tell you that it's like cannibalism to eat meat , since our organs
are virtually the same !!
[Edited 10/21/04 5:47am]

Just moving this thread up
[Edited 10/21/04 5:54am]

I'm still a meat lover, and I'm not ashamed.
It tastes good, it's got some vitamins, and...well, it tastes good.

(Should've said this much earlier)


Why don't you people eat dogs or cats ?
Or is that diffent ?
If so , why ?
Let me guess , because you're emotionally attached !?
That's just a lame excuse and you know it
Meat is meat !
[Edited 10/21/04 6:11am]

Dewrede said:

Some people do, well dogs anyway. I would guess that cats don't have enough meat on them to bother with, otherwise people would eat them too.
And yes, it is different, when they are kept as pets - pets become part of your family, you love them and you're not about to slaughter them because you're feeling peckish.

As i said when edited , meat is meat

Dewrede said:

some countries eat cats and dogs food is food to some.



I'm not one to really loveeeee meat especially beef. I'm a chicken and fish sorta chick but damn it if I want some beef, chicken or fish..I'mma eat it. Jesus ate fish. I'mma eat fish. I think there is balance in all things including what you eat. I feel no conviction in eating meat. And I hope those who are yellin' at us meat eaters, don't have a leather coat in your closet or have leather shoes, etc.

Dewrede said:

In some parts of the world people eat cats and dogs.....just as in some parts people eat insects....in America they don't usually eat cat and dog....Not to say it does not happen because it does but it's not an animal we eat here they are only pets. So now you paint the picture that because people eat meat hell eat everything that has meat on it! Your mom has meat on her why don't you cook her! I can't take that sort of logic seriously. As I said before we ALL need to eat living things to survive. The more examples like this you post is more for an excuse to argue than a discussion. And to be honest there is not much to discuss.....

Rhondab said:

Well , i said before i don't

Dewrede said:

Yeah, I posted my reply before I saw your edit.

I don't think it's a lame excuse though, I guess it depends on whether or not you think killing animals for food is wrong. I don't, but I still wouldn't kill my pet.
I have actually been thinking about this issue since I saw the thread and am writing a hopefully intelligent response which I'll post as soon as I've finished it.

sinister said:

I happen to think it IS a good point , and as for you saying there's
not much to discuss , well i know for a fact i'm not the only that disagrees !!


Btw , just because YOU don't agree , there isn't much to discuss ??!!


[Edited 10/21/04 6:20am]

Rhondab said:

Well said.

I think some of these vegetarians and animal extremists are TOO harsh in what they say and do.

Killing an animal for meat? Well fuck its been happening since the year dot. I am not a murderer. I choose to eat meat.

I bet most of you have eaten meat before - Let him who is without sin cast the first stone

It aint a sin to eat meat - FFS. We all have different opinions, beliefs and choosing, I just hate it when people wanna protest and shout saying Meat is Murder. What a load old crap.

Thats just my


and btw, I love animals

Well , an animal has to (usually) be killed first before you can cook and eat
it , so how else should you call it ?

bkw said:

Brett, I love you.

Dewrede said:

Now you are being childish/anal..

Not all killing is murder

Dewrede said:

You have about 150 or so replies to your question....and you and others here both for and against meat eating have pleaded their cases and covered pretty much the general topic at hand.....When I say there isn't much to discuss is we covered everything....At this point people are only going to repeat themselves and you saying "Meat is meat why not eat cat or dog" is merely nitpicking....So next someone says "Why not eat horse?" Then why not eat a Bull? Then why not eat a parrot? and so forth.....

The general topic is about you not approving of eating meat....The subject has been addressed that is all I meant by saying their isn't "much" left to discuss.

Some thoughts :

BinaryJustin said

I agree wholeheartedly with the stance of not eating anything I wouldn't be prepared to kill myself.
However, I don't find that to be in any way hypocritical, because when it comes to it I do kill animals for food. The meetyourmeat video is an eye-opener, but it only exposes the unnecessary cruelty of factory farming and slaughter. It does not, in my opinion, offer any reason to become vegetarian or vegan. What it does do is offer plenty of reasons for avoiding factory farmed meat.

The alternative is to keep your own animals so you'll know that they've lead a decent life, and have been humanely treated and slaughtered. Unfortunately subsistence farming (which is what it amounts to) is not an option for many meat eaters. I guess I'm lucky enough to be able to keep my own chickens, and all the meat I buy comes from a farm shop, I know the farm, and I know the animals are well treated. A local farmer (the same one who supplies the farm shop) provides me with a pig each year, which (with the help of the farm shop butcher) I slaughter, butcher and cure myself. I have no qualms about doing so, and I feel much better about eating meat knowing where it's come from and how the animals were treated than I do buying some supermarket pork chops or steaks and knowing that in all probability the animals suffered terribly.

Ever ask someone how good their salmon tastes ?
Ever ask someone how much better their salmon tastes when they've caught it themselves ? Believe me, it does, and I think it has to do both with the hunter/gatherer racial memory, and also the satisfaction of knowing that it has lived healthily, and has been treated humanely both in life and death. The same applies to any fish or animal that we regularly use for food. Chicken, I can tell you, tastes much nicer when it's home reared, and I don’t want to sound like I'm some sort of sadistic bastard, because I'm not, but there is a feeling of satisfaction in having killed and prepared an animal yourself. I guess it's partly the old 'I made this!' pride we have in doing things ourselves, but for me anyway, it's because I know the animal had a decent life, and was never treated cruelly.
I'm not suggesting that everyone should keep their own animals, that wouldn't be practical, but I do think that meat eaters, if given the opportunity to do so, should slaughter an animal for food, and see how they feel about it. If you're not prepared to kill it, then you shouldn't be prepared to eat it. If you have no regard for the meat on your plate and where it came from, then I guess you must feel comfortable knowing that you contribute to the unnecessary cruelty of animals.

On the other hand, it is difficult for most people who have a conscience about it to remain meat eaters without being hypocritical. And that is where the meat eaters "moral superiority" that irresistibleb1tch talked about comes into play. It's impossible to say you're a meat eater with a conscience who cares about the welfare of the animals that end up on your plate, and still justify knowingly contributing to the mistreatment of those very same animals. When confronted with this, most of us will feel guilty about it, and knowing there is no justification for our position, will instead lash out at the vegetarians, attempting to paint them as hypocrites because they occasionally squash a bug, rather than deal with the fact that we are morally wrong and are responsible for the mistreatment of animals.

So how does one become a morally responsible meat eater ? If like me, you believe that the use of animals for food is not wrong, but that the mistreatment of animals for that (or any other) purpose is wrong, then I guess you make sure that all the meat you eat comes from animals that you know were properly treated.

If you believe that killing animals for food is morally wrong, well then I guess we’ll just agree to differ.

That i can have respect for , you willing to slaughter your own meat , i'll
give you that , however i still think it's wrong because you kill
them just the same , but at least you're no hypocrite
[Edited 10/21/04 6:39am]

AsylumUtopia said:

Good Post AsylumUtopia!!

My Dad worked as a butcher so we have always had the best meat. I am not a stranger to the slaughter of animals for their meat. Or having dead animals hung up in the garage or cut up into chops, steaks etc.

I regularly go to our friends farm and feed the animals there, take care of the newborn piglets, calves etc care for them, feed them, love them, knowing they are gonna be on my plate one dinnertime. Its just how it goes.

I am an animal lover but I love eating meat too. I am not a bad person, neither am I murderer.

Funny, makes me laugh, many many people who disagree havent even touched on nature, and yeah might have cats and dogs as pets but have they ever had to work caring for farm animals etc etc and know what goes on there? bet not.

Dewrede said:

Great Album, I prefer The Queen Is Dead and Strangeways Here We Come, but for a second album, and a first self-produced one, I think the Smiths came up trumps with Meat Is Murder. No need for Morrissey to still play the title song live, though. It's a tedious track full of tedious sentiments. Meat is Murder? Is it fuck!
[Edited 10/21/04 7:07am]

SassierBritches said:

i can't agree with this connection you're making. i'm vegetarian and i'm pro-choice. by pro-choice, i don't mean that i'm necessarily pro-abortion. there is a difference. personally, in my life, if i were ever put in a position where my decision would affect whether or not a child would be born, i would opt against an abortion. i don't mean this in a larger, politicized manner of speaking. i'm talking about my personal life, in which i will most likely never make such a decision, considering i'm queer as a catfart, but i digress.

politically, i am pro-choice because as a man, i personally don't feel that i'm entitled to make decisions about the availability of abortions to women. i certainly don't feel that rich old white men (i.e., most politicians) have much to say about the need for abortions. while i feel that the man in a relationship should have a certain amount of input when his spouse is impregnated, the choice ultimately rests with the woman who is carrying the child.

and to me, having these beliefs, i don't see how it's hypocritical to shun certain foods and hold pro-choice beliefs at the same time. is it the labels that make it such an untenable combination? "vegetarian and pro-choice"? i can call myself different things if it helps. "non-meat-eater and pro-women-deciding-things".

though i suppose my views on vegetarianism are much the same as my views on abortion - i feel that other people should be allowed to make their own choices regarding what they eat, even if i disagree with those choices.

AsylumUtopia said:

excellent post! thank you for taking the time to honestly look at your position. much respect!

I can't sit by and watch you all get tied in knots any longer. First of all don't argure with The b1tch because while she is vegetarian, she will make mince meat out of all of you, chew you up and spit you out again (none of you are worth THAT sacrifice).

The simple answer to the thread statement “MEAT IS MURDER” is NO it is not. Apart from being grammatically incorrect, Murder is a term used solely to describe the killing of a human being. Therefore, Murder cannot apply to cows, pigs or carrots.

For the discussion:

On the nutrition front, as has been pointed out, we are omnivorous. But we are exactly that (IMHO) we eat both, we CAN survive on a diet of solely meat (with supplements) or solely Vegetables (with supplements) but for a truly balanced and healthy diet (without any supplements) we eat both. I happen to believe that all the supplements we are eating to de-toxify our bodies are probably doing more harm than good, but that is another story.

As humans (higher mammals) we have the fortune to be able to make choices, the problem in today’s society is that that choice is very much influenced by what we see or hear. So I say don’t be ignorant in your choice, read the subject, look at the pictures (from IB) and make your choice. If you are happy to eat steak after seeing a cow slaughtered then eat your steak, if you are happy to eat an apple after you see the chemicals sprayed on it then eat your apple. But don’t go through life blindly arguing the toss one way or the other.

Oh, I love meat BTW I tried to give up but there is NO substitute I am happy with. Now I try to eat meat I know the origins of, I grow a lot of my own veg too. But I happen to think that vegetarians are some of the most knowledgeable dieticians/nutritionalists I know, because they have to constantly justify themselves in arguments like this.

PREDOMINANT said:

i will, in a compassionate, Buddhist sorta way, of course!

Bacon


Anybody going with me for a steak dinner?

Corpses