irresistibleb1tch said:

It's hard for me to say, because I'm not a medical doctor, and IMHO there's a lot of research that still needs to be done. But....

My best hypothesis is that I was having trouble digesting calories from plant sources, and they were simply going through my system undigested. I kept track of my calories (among other things) and made sure to consume at least 2,000 per day... and yet I still kept losing weight.

However, there's a problem with that hypothesis. My current day-to-day calorie intake varies widely, but my weight holds steady right around 130. It seems as if my metabolism adjusts itself to keep me at this equilibrium. So if I was having trouble digesting plant calories, why didn't my metabolism slow down accordingly? Were plant calories so problematic that even my amazing self-adjusting metabolism couldn't handle them?

What I can say is that my doctor did a ton of blood work on me, and the results suggested no nutrient deficiencies or other problems. Well, there is one exception: I have a benign condition called Gilbert's Syndrome, which means that I chronically elevated bilirubin levels, but my liver is fine. (High bilirubin levels usually suggest a liver problem.) However, I don't see how Gilbert's Syndrome could be connected with an inability to be a healthy vegetarian/vegan... unless there's something important about nutrition that we don't yet know.

What else than that "Gilbert's syndrome" can it be that causes you to have
problems with the diet ?

redundant edit
[Edited 10/20/04 21:07pm]

Anxiety said:

I don't doubt that there are "old school" docs out there with an unfounded bias against vegetarianism/veganism. My doctor wasn't one of them, though. She'd started practicing medicine in California and had a fair number of vegetarian/vegan patients there. In fact, she was so well-versed on vegetarianism/veganism that I wondered if she was vegetarian/vegan herself. At no time did she even suggest that I consider giving up. (Should she have? )

Based upon my experience and those of others, some of whom are successful long-term vegetarians/vegans, I believe that some people can thrive on such a diet and some (such as me) cannot. Why? Good question. I don't expect to get an answer, though. Vegetarians/vegans have a powerful disincentive to explore this issue, because the answer could destroy their "one-size-fits-all" approach. And as Beyond Vegetarianism notes, most ex-vegetarians/vegans, unlike myself, aren't interested in the answer... they simply go back to their former omnivorous ways.

i have no problem with other people's diets. i was vegetarian for about 4 years. i still eat mostly vegetarian foods (minus the fish that i eat very frequently). shoot, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are the bomb and they can be vegan! what annoys me about many (not all, so jump back) vegetarians is this kind of thing. the whole mentality of "how can you eat meat...its wrong for me so it must be wrong for you!"...man that annoys me.

people need to worry about themselves.

Dewrede said:

To clarify, I don't think Gilbert's Syndrome is the problem. I simply mentioned it because it's the one "abnormal" thing about my health. And even then, Gilbert's is considered a harmless condition.

So, if the problem is not Gilbert's Syndrome, what is it? I don't know. I wish I knew. I think there are ethical problems with the manner in which animals are raised for food. Unfortunately, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place... I'm forced to choose between financially supporting suffering of animals and endangering my own health.

At least I can say that I made a good-faith effort to be vegan, and I got something out of it. While in retrospect it seems like an ironic version of the movie Super Size Me, I learned a lot from it, and I introduced some new foods into my diet that I still eat today. For instance, just the other day I ordered a bowl of Indian lentil soup at a restaurant... I never would have done that before my vegetarian/vegan experiment.

Dewrede said:

are you pro-life or pro-choice? just wondering.

SassierBritches said:

matt said:

honestly, i do understand what you're saying, and i commend you for even having given it a shot. dealing with so much "bravado" over the years (many examples of which can be found on this very thread), it's easy to get a little defensive, and i apologize if i come off that way anywhere in this thread.

I'm in the same boat as Natisse on this one. I remember starting a thread some time ago asking how to become a vegetarian. Needless to say it didn't work.
Also..I don't get it how people call themselves vegetarians but eat fish and chicken. It's still flesh/meat.
Not sure if this was mentioned in the above post..(didn't see it); anyway more of a question. And don't get defensive

But for those that are adamant about being vegan or 'vegetarian' for the sake of animals. How would you justify owning leather products, or certain cosmetics (incl. shampoo, hair products) if in fact you do?

Thanks!

Dewrede said:

its a legit question, really.

Chico1 said:

I don't eat fish and chicken
I don't wear leather or fur
I don't use anything that comes from dead animals (some soaps have animal fat in it)
I don't eat some flavour enhancers since they sometimes come from fish or meat
I only eat vegetarian cheese ('cause for preparing regular cheese they use a calf's stomach , sorry don't know the word in English)
[Edited 10/20/04 22:05pm]

Chico1 said:

Ah yes. There are the "pesco-vegetarians" who eat fish and the "pesco-pollo-vegetarians" who eat fish and chicken. I think they want the "vegetarian" label because it's trendy in some circles.

Hmmm... maybe I'll call myself a "bovo-vegetarian"... a "vegetarian" who eats beef.

Seriously, I think the idea about fish not being "meat" comes from the Catholic dietary rules. Catholics are supposed to abstain from "meat" on Fridays during Lent (until Vatican II in the 1960s, it was Fridays year-round) and Ash Wednesday. But seafood is still considered acceptable.

In fact, McDonald's Filet-o-Fish sandwich was added (pre-Vatican II) to the menu in order to attract Catholic customers.

Dewrede said:[quote]
I only eat vegetarian cheese ('cause for preparing regular cheese they use a calf's stomach , sorry don't know the word in English)


Does any one know the word i mean ?

Dewrede said:

I believe it's "rennet." However, there is both animal rennet (the stuff you avoid) and vegetable rennet.

Thanks , it will be handy if i'm in an English speaking country and
want to eat cheese
[Edited 10/20/04 22:15pm]

oh lawd this gets complicated with what to eat and what not to eat, huh?

Natisse said:

sweetie, eat what you want...in moderation, of course.

SassierBritches said:

thanks...my minds kinda reeling taking in everything being said - it's all good information to think about

Yes , but one has to stay consistent (replying to your first comment)
[Edited 10/20/04 22:23pm]

SassierBritches said:

Dodging the question?

I think I know where you're going with that.

Natisse said:

i think opening up your fridge to more veggie dishes is very smart. there are things i never even knew existed until i started cooking vegetarian. almost all of my cookbooks are vegetarian and i've learned a lot about well balanced meals and healthy eating because of it. sometimes, though, you just want a nice medium rare steak with some garlic-gorgonzola mashed potatoes and green beans and red pepper. its ok. just don't eat that steak everyday, lol.

MrJoker said:

i'm very curious to know the answer. an orgnote would be cool...we don't have to get into all that in public.

MrJoker said:

I honestly don't get the question , not dodging it
[Edited 10/20/04 22:27pm]

Dewrede said:

do you feel a woman has the right to choose to have an abortion or should abortion be illegal?

Aha , pro choice of course , but what has that got to do with it ?

Dewrede said:

i was just wondering since you believe eating meat is murder...i was interested to know how valuable you perceived human life to be. i dated a woman (yes, y'all read that correct) who was vegetarian and all sorts of militant about it. yet, when it came to preserving human life she didn't think it was wrong for a woman to abort a baby. it just seems weird to me. the unborn child is even more helpless than the animal yet she was all about pro-choice. but don't you dare eat a hamburger in front of her.

Damn...I didn't have time to place my bet!

MrJoker said:

outside of prince, i have yet to meet a strict animal rights vegetarian that wasn't in support of choice. it seems like quite a paradox, to put it kindly.
[Edited 10/20/04 22:38pm]

SassierBritches said:

I agree.