Richard... I read every single word... and yes, I can relate to many degrees. I would write my experience, I am actually quite open about it... when time is suitable. People assume my positive outlooks are "dreamy" and delusional... perhaps even irrational. How you/all may perceive me here, is how many or all would perceive me in real life. You see... it's been a lifetime goal to be where I am today, through hard work and intense awareness... not just within my life but with all life as a whole.

I am intensely tolerate to various behavior... leaving a few unexceptable behaviors (personally) to a degree of zero tolerance.

I am completely aware that all people are the way they are for some specific reason... a painful past, upbring or present life moment. While I do my best to not participate in certain behavior... I do however still have compassion for all, I do. (This part of my characteristic can be challenging, yes) I have my boundaries... as we all do and I will not hesitate to speak my mind when I feel it needs to be known. The rest... well, the world will continue to evolve.

Richard... to have compassion towards people even when in wrong doing (I mean ills of the world)...it is the best chain break (I believe) people can obtain. The cycle can be broken... yet the way in which that chain should be approach... will forever remain unique and obtainable or unobtainable... depending on the person.

I truly can write so extensively here... I really would like to sit here and write more thoughts... perhaps in more detail... my journey to now.

I promised a friend to meet her for a movie... so I better hurry and be on my way.

I love you Richard for your honesty... your strength that has emerged through some of the most difficult times of your life. I respect you more than you may know... for you beautifully being just who you are... all the ups and downs... that has made you the whole being you are today.

I don't believe life ever reaches... that "perfect state"... life will forever journey into the unknowns of so many occurrences... although one can make that ultimate decision to "gain strength, find strength" within themself. One must believe in just enough... so when those hard days come... they still can see the light, even if in distance.

This is a diverse situation... for all our minds are challenged in so many, many unique ways... and reasons for why we are who we are will never be duplicate to other life moments.

I suppose, for myself... the ability to "truly listen"... along with the desire to understand life moments/people... can very well be the savior to our own sense of insanity.

...

Like I said.... I could write a book... I actually believe you should write a book... your words are empowering, your sense of convictions towards life are enlightening even if dark. I am reading a book right now... "Dark Nights Of The Soul... A Guide To Finding Your Way Through Life's Ordeals" by Thomas Moore. I highly recommend this book, for within the shared words of this text... it talks about how our dark nights are (and I truly believe) the most absolute moments ever to exist within our own self revelations.

I better get going... This life experience of yours... has an enormous ability to reach so many souls... for the percentage of what truly exists... will never be known and most probably will result in... being too late. The mad cycle of disfunctions will never cease to exist, for the ones who have been successful in stepping out of that cycle... well you will never forget where you came from and no one will ever fully know, but you. To forget is not the goal (I feel), although to use the pain to turn your life around... a modeled form of what you don't want in your life... is a gift within itself, yes even through the pain and unexplainable issues that affect you directly. Answers don't always come, although self-acceptance/self-love can hold a power that nothing in this world can destroy. And yes, I do believe... and live in this state.

~Beautiful Night all.



Julie
[Edited 9/10/04 18:08pm]

Azure, one thing that you said that really struck me was how your dad did not remember his antics.

The psychological and emotional aspects of abuse are definitely worse than the physical pain. Bruises, red marks and welts go away. But when the spirit is torn, it takes much more to heal. I truly think of it as someone enslaving your mind and heart with invisible chains. You don't even see that they are there and when you do, it feels like the impossible to break free from them.

Richard... I read every single word... and yes, I can relate to many degrees. I would write my experience, I am actually quite open about it... when time is suitable. People assume my positive outlooks are "dreamy" and delusional... perhaps even irrational. How you/all may perceive me here, is how many or all would perceive me in real life. You see... it's been a lifetime goal to be where I am today, through hard work and intense awareness... not just within my life but with all life as a whole.

I am intensely tolerate to various behavior... leaving a few unexceptable behaviors (personally) to a degree of zero tolerance.

I am completely aware that all people are the way they are for some specific reason... a painful past, upbring or present life moment. While I do my best to not participate in certain behavior... I do however still have compassion for all, I do. (This part of my characteristic can be challenging, yes) I have my boundaries... as we all do and I will not hesitate to speak my mind when I feel it needs to be known. The rest... well, the world will continue to evolve.

Richard... to have compassion towards people even when in wrong doing (I mean ills of the world)...it is the best chain break (I believe) people can obtain. The cycle can be broken... yet the way in which that chain should be approach... will forever remain unique and obtainable or unobtainable... depending on the person.

I truly can write so extensively here... I really would like to sit here and write more thoughts... perhaps in more detail... my journey to now.

I promised a friend to meet her for a movie... so I better hurry and be on my way.

I love you Richard for your honesty... your strength that has emerged through some of the most difficult times of your life. I respect you more than you may know... for you beautifully being just who you are... all the ups and downs... that has made you the whole being you are today.

I don't believe life ever reaches... that "perfect state"... life will forever journey into the unknowns of so many occurrences... although one can make that ultimate decision to "gain strength, find strength" within themself. One must believe in just enough... so when those hard days come... they still can see the light, even if in distance.

This is a diverse situation... for all our minds are challenged in so many, many unique ways... and reasons for why we are who we are will never be duplicate to other life moments.

I suppose, for myself... the ability to "truly listen"... along with the desire to understand life moments/people... can very well be the savior to our own sense of insanity.

...

Like I said.... I could write a book... I actually believe you should write a book... your words are empowering, your sense of convictions towards life are enlightening even if dark. I am reading a book right now... "Dark Nights Of The Soul... A Guide To Finding Your Way Through Life's Ordeals" by Thomas Moore. I highly recommend this book, for within the shared words of this text... it talks about how our dark nights are (and I truly believe) the most absolute moments ever to exist within our own self revelations.

I better get going... This life experience of yours... has an enormous ability to reach so many souls... for the percentage of what truly exists... will never be known and most probably will result in... being too late. The mad cycle of disfunctions will never cease to exist, for the ones who have been successful in stepping out of that cycle... well you will never forget where you came from and no one will ever fully know, but you. To forget is not the goal (I feel), although to use the pain to turn your life around... a modeled form of what you don't want in your life... is a gift within itself, yes even through the pain and unexplainable issues that affect you directly. Answers don't always come, although self-acceptance/self-love can hold a power that nothing in this world can destroy. And yes, I do believe... and live in this state.

~Beautiful Night all.



Julie
[Edited 9/10/04 18:08pm]

I love you too, Azure. You will always be special to me.

Stymie you are a very beautiful person. You have given alot of happiness to many people here at the Org.. And in real life. I am sure of that. You have a friend in me.

Madartista one can tell you are full of genuine love. I know that when you speak it is real.

I too have a story! A long story. It has been resolved and put behind me..

I thank God for my mother who allowed me to relive those horrible times. She allowed me to get angry with her, to hate her, to eventually love her for evermore..

To you that I don't know a great big

sag10 said:

Sag you hit on something here. You have to allow yourself to be angry. It's not enough to just to get over it. If you don't flush that anger out, it'll stew inside you and eat you alive. Hell yeah you should be angry that someone had the audacity to abuse you. Wouldn't you be angry for anybody else? Why not be angry for yourself? At the same time that you allow yourself to be angry, you cannot let it rule you and consume you. In my life, music has been the greatest source of inspiration, solace, healing, power and strength. At the time this happened, I was all alone, but I always had music. So many artists helped me manage to hold onto my sanity. Music is beautiful. It has guided me through the darkest hours of my life. Thank you God for music You also have to mourn the loss of yourself. The person you are after this experience is not the person that went into it. That person dies. You have to let that person pass, and you have to rise up.....it's your resurrection.

.
[Edited 9/13/04 10:36am]

She looks to the sun. To Help Her to Carry on.
Breakin down all the years, wondering how she got here.
She drifts through the sky. Counting the reasons why.
How my life turned so fast? Remembering all of the past.
All the changes and all the mistakes, foolishly laughing at things that, words that she said.....
Time to follow the heart. The world is falling apart.
And the turning of every new page, a book on the shelf that is there to remain.
Breaking the walls as she's tearing them down as she is starting to drown.
She's waiting for love.... Pink-"Waiting for Love"


In honor of this, my 10,000th post, I wanted to talk about one of the most painful things I've had to deal with in my life. Domestic Abuse.

My mother grew up in a house with an alcoholic father. He beat my grandmother and terrorized the kids. Each of the women, my mother and her 2 sisters (and later all their daughters), were molested by family members and or family friends. When they grew up, they had relationships with men who abused them. In turn, their daughters (and myself) grew up to have similar relationships filled with abuse. Abuse begets abuse begets abuse begets abuse.....

My very first memory in life is of a fight between my mother and father. I was younger than 4 because my dad left us right after I turned 4. I remember hearing yelling and screaming. I got out of bed and walked into our hallway. I saw my dad slap my mother hard across the face, hard enough to knock her glasses off her face and into the bathtub. I started screaming and crying telling my dad not to hit my mother. He just turned and looked at me with rage and shut the bathroom door. When he shut the door, my fingers were in the door jamb and he shut the door on my small fingers. I screamed bloody murder in pain. My dad threw open the door and I remember seeing that they both had a look of concern on their faces. I said to my dad "why did you shut the door on my fingers". He said "Your mother did it". I said "No she didn't. You did. I saw you", and with that he just shut the door and continued to beat her. This is my first memory in life....

Thankfully in my life I was able to escape the sexual abuse that all the women in my family tree have had to endure. But that is not to say that the effects of the domestic abuse I witnessed all my life didn't have a huge impact on my life and on the choices I made.

Being gay wasn't easy in a religious household. Dealing with all the dysfunction in my family was enough to shatter my self esteem. Religion only compounded the issue. My parents divorce affected me and my sister profoundly. We grew up in a struggling single parent home. The cycle was alive and well.

I met Paul when I was 21. I was only out of the closet for 3 years and had my heart broken already 2 times. At the time I met him I wasn't looking for love. Paul told me when we first hooked up not to expect anything out of it and I said that was fine with me cuz I wasn't looking for anything either. We spent more time together. Then came to figure out that we both really liked each other and the more time we spent together the more that like grew. We came to fall in love and thus began a 3 year journey into hell.

Having gone through the experience, looking back I now know that the signs were there. But being inexperienced and new to relationships I wasn't really sure what to look for. Honestly I never really looked for signs in the beginning because who thinks they're walking into an abusive relationship? More often than not, you don't. He didn't hit me right away. He wasn't abusive and mean in the beginning. He was plenty jealous but at the time I thought that was a nice thing. It showed me how much he really loved me, or so I thought. After about 11 months we moved in together.

It was my first time out of the house on my own. I was so excited. To be moving in with my boyfriend. It felt great to make this kind of step. I was a grown up now. The 3rd day in the apartment my best friend came to spend the night. My partner and I had gotten an invitation to a house party and I thought it would be fun if my best friend came along. We got to the party and 45 minutes later my boyfriend started tripping and telling me we had to go. I asked him why and he said that he thought I was looking at other guys. I was like...give me a break. I'm just sitting with my friend and we're having a good time. I'm not ready to leave. With that he said he was going to leave and I told him I was going to stay. I did.

After having a great time at the party we walked home (it was close by). When I got there the door was locked and my keys were in the car. I knocked several times and there was no answer. I knocked some more and the door opened a peep. Paul was looking through the crack in the door asking me what I wanted. "I want to come in" I said. He said for me to leave and I was like "this is my apartment too!" With that he opened the door, grabbed me by the arm, pulled me in and threw me on the couch and raised his hand to hit me. My best friend jumped between us and told him not to touch me or he'd have a real fight on his hand. My ex was a 200 pound body builder. I was 118. Hardly a match.

My friend and I walked to my mom's house about 6 miles away. I was so humiliated and embarrassed and sad. He had never acted like that before. We had our fights, who doesn't, but he never really got that physical before. When we got to my mom's house I made up some excuse for why I was there and not at my apartment. Pride is a powerful thing. I could have left him right then but I wanted my family to think I had a good relationship, that I was grown enough to make it on my own. I didn't want to come crawling back after only 3 days in my first apartment. So when he called telling me he was sorry, I went back.

Over the course of the next year and a half we got in many fights, most of which I ended up getting hit. At first the abuse was psychological and emotional. He didn't get physical with me until after we moved in together. But looking back I can see how he manipulated my innocence. Systematically he worked on me to make me think I was crazy. He even worked on my friends and family. As an example, one time he was getting ready for work and couldn't find his wallet. He calmly asked me where I had placed it. I told him I didn't know where his wallet was. He said lovingly "babe you had it last night. Don't you remember where you put it?" I then thought to myself...well did I have it? I don't remember that. But he was so sincere and it made me question my own memory. Did I really have it? I could swear that I never had it but I must just not remember it. He had it the whole time. He did things like this often and after a while I began questioning myself.

About 5 years after we broke up I went to visit my cousin up north. My boyfriend and I used to go play cards with her all the time. I hadn't seen her in those 5 years and we got to talking about all kinds of personal things, family our relationships etc. I told her all the gory details about me and Paul. She told me this story that blew my mind. She told me how he once pulled her aside at one of our cardnights while I was in the bathroom. She said that he asked her "Has he always been like that?" She said "like what?". He then told her that I would just burst out for no reason at all and he was concerned about me and thought that maybe I needed help. When she told me that I knew exactly what night she was talking about. That night he had leaned over to me while one player was up in the bathroom and my cousin was in the kitchen. He said something really fucked up and it pissed me off. I reacted. As far as my cousin knows, she has not heard him say a word as he whispered it in my ear. To the casual bystander it could look like I'm bursting out for no reason. He played similar games with my friends as well. Even they thought I was overreacting to things and I felt like I was going crazy. I was even seriously thinking about going to a doctor because I thought I was losing my mind.

I will never forget the feeling when I realized that he was playing mind games with me all along. We were fighting over something we always fought about. His jealousy. He was going on and on and on about something and I was explaining to him in detail that he was wrong and why he was wrong and I couldn't make him see it. Then it hit me like a ton of bricks. It hit me so hard that I got dizzy and felt like I was going to faint. It was like blinders had been removed and I saw clearly in that argument that he knew exactly what I was saying and that he was only pretending not to understand just to frustrate me and play with my mind. That was the turning point in my acceptance of the situation. It just never occurred to me before then, that I wasn't the one with the problem. I would never treat anyone I loved like that and certainly never expected anyone who loved me to do that to me. God I was so innocent.

One of the worst moments was 3 days before the last Christmas we spent together.. He started in on me over cheating on him and I was not about to admit to something I didn't do. He ended up become so flipped out that he attacked me and held me down on the bed choking me and slapping my face. He finally let go of me but not before ripping to shreds the Lovesexy poster I tried for years so hard to find. He did that with a lot of my stuff, destroyed it.....just like he tried to destroy me.

During this nightmare alcohol became my best friend. I drank to feel better. I drank to escape. I drank to forget.

My liberation came on a day that was like many others, awful. We had a party with some friends and the next day when my ex left for work he said that he wanted the house clean by the time he came home. I was like "yeah yeah , it'll get done". I set out to clean the place and not just straightening up either. I mopped the floors, scrubbed the kitchen clean, polished the furniture, vacuumed, I mean really cleaned the apartment. I had just finished the bathroom and the vanity area and was starting on the bedroom when he came home. He walked into a spotless place. As soon as he opened the door to the bedroom he just wigged out and started screaming and yelling that he just couldn't take it anymore. Take what?! "I can't stand living with a pig like you". I was like "HELLO!! this place is spotless and I'm finishing the bedroom as we speak!" He just ranted about what a pigsty the room was, meanwhile there was hardly anything to do to it besides make the bed and pick up loose clothes. He just said he couldn't take it anymore and that he wanted me gone. I asked him if that is what he really wanted and he said yes. So I packed up as much as I could in about a half-hour and he dropped me at my mothers house and I never went back.

As it turns out, he was a drug addict. He was hooked on speed. Many people say that I should have been able to tell but he was a user. He ate and slept on that drug. He had dark eyes so you couldn't tell anything by looking at his pupils, you couldn't even see them. He did not act nervously or get chatty. The only sign was his irrational moods and psychotic jealousy. Before we moved in together he was using and I didn't know it. I did become aware some months after living together but I thought it was a casual thing. It wasn't until towards the end that I figured out that he was using all the time. And all his jealous ravings....well it turns out that the whole time he was accusing me of cheating, which was not true, he had been cheating. It's very true that when your mate is overly obsessed with your behavior and makes accusations, chances are they are guilty and deflecting their guilt onto you.





You were stealing me away from me
Nobody needed me anymore than me
It's amazing how the tears fall.
Water seeds that grow to be your strength to leave
Cuz I'm finally at the point
where I'm ready for the truth
and anything i do from here to make me happy
is up to me not you. Truth Hurts-"Catch 22"

It's been 10 years since I left him and little by little I have regained myself. You lose yourself in that situation. Getting to know myself again over these years was the best gift I ever could have given myself. I was an emotional mess for a long time. Sometimes the horror of it all still haunts me. I am very glad to say that I have never been in another relationship like this and I can say that I never will. Nobody will ever put their hands on me again and if they do, I'M GONE! Each day of freedom makes me stronger. Each day without that pain makes me happier. Each year that passes only sets to take me further and further away from the nightmare I once lived.

At the same time I was going through my situation, my best friend was dealing with the same thing. Her girlfriend abused her. She had it worse than I did. I was gone from my relationship about a year when I finally convinced her to leave her girlfriend and move away with me. It was truly an amazing thing to be able to walk her through all the steps I had already taken. All the steps from leaving, to gaining back the person you lost when your mate destroyed you.

The purpose of this thread was first to reach out to those out there who face this kind of situation, and I know you're there, to give them a sense of hope. The other purpose of this thread was to really give people an idea of how/why people end up in these situations. Most people blame the abused for allowing themselves to be abused. I see more people blaming the abused than blaming the abuser. There is absolutely no doubt that the victim has some responsibility in the situation. They choose to stay. But there are reasons that people end up in this situation in the first place and reasons why people have a difficult time leaving or never leave.

Growing up seeing my mom, my aunts, my cousins and my sister all get abused by men really set a precedent for what is "acceptable". It's not that I ever thought it was right for my boyfriend to hit me but it didn't seem outrageously out of the norm from what I was exposed to. Having really bad self esteem left me open to be exploited. Going into that relationship I was so innocent and so pure. I never considered that someone would hurt me on purpose (the mental games) so I never considered it. I thought it was me. I thought I was at fault for the fighting. After living a life where I have been deprived of love (not from my mother, she always loved me), when I found it I wanted desperately to hold onto it. I watched my mother go to the ends of the earth for a man who did not deserve her undying devotion and love. When I left my boyfriend I knew I didn't want that to be me. I wanted to come to a place where I could give my love to someone who deserved to have it. Sometimes people are so starved to be loved that they will accept the abuse because it often comes with the abuser saying they are sorry and loving that person afterward. The incredible emotional rollercoaster of not being loved and then being loved causes people not to be able to think effectively. Many people trust that they can do better and that the abuser won't do it again like they promise. Unfortunately this promise is almost always broken.

Many many people are parts of the cycle of abuse. You don't break free from that easily. It takes providence and the grace of God to break the cycle. It takes the ability to grab and hold onto that last strand of strength when you need it the most. Unless you have walked in these shoes, it's nearly impossible for someone who has never been through this to understand the enormity of the strength you need at the very time where you have the least amount of it. I once attended a seminar in which the speaker said "Reject comfort in discomfort". This was a true eye opener. I myself came to be comfortable with an uncomfortable situation. I was familiar with it and it seemed to give me more comfort than the unknown of what would happen if I left. Do not underestimate the power of fear. When someone has your mind in chains it's incredibly hard to break them. Abusers instill fear into their victims and fear is a huge millstone that is not easy to lift. Until you live daily in fear, don't judge a person for being affected by it.

For anyone who faces this situation, you should not be ashamed. You should look at yourself honestly and ask this one question. Do I deserve this? The answer is NO! I'm not yelling at you, just emphasizing how one sided the answer to that question is. Only one answer.....no Nobody has the right to put their hands on you in any other way than to love you. And if they do, you must leave and never give that person another chance. Trust me, the chances are they will not change and you will have made the worst decision in your life by staying. Being in my abusive relationship, my mind was full of confusion and chaos and I had no idea if I was coming or going. Once I left, my mind became clear. I had time to focus. I had the emotional energy to heal myself. I had the will to live and to believe in myself. I think of it this way: if you are up with your face right directly in front of the TV screen, it's nearly impossible to tell what is going on. Once you pull back and away from the screen you can clearly see the picture. It's very much like that with this. I found that once I made that first step to leave, all the other steps were easy. Getting up the courage to leave was the hardest part. Once I did, all the other steps were a cinch. If you have children, you owe it not only to yourself to leave but to those kids as well. There are support networks out there that can help guide you in the step of leaving. You are worth it. We all are. Every person's destiny in this life is to be loved....

Society needs to realize that the abused do not deserve to be attacked for being in a shitty situation. Yes people make choices but we need to understand why they are making them in the first place. Many times abusers don't abuse right away. It's usually only after they have gained your full trust before they start their manipulation, lies and assaults. We as people need to reach out to those in need and let them know we are here for them, in whatever capacity you are capable of whether it be financial, emotional or whatever it is that you can do. Victims do not deserve the stigma that people place on them for this horrific crime. They deserve our love, compassion, understanding and support. You deserve love and understanding. If your mate does not give that to you, they don't deserve you. Be strong. As much as it may seem, the truth is you aren't alone. You can break the chains. You can.....

Never be afraid to love, never be afraid to just be.
You've got to Cast away the chains of doubt and have the courage to be free.
Don't cloud your eyes with others lies, see only what you want to see.
Just duplicate this simple truth and have the courage to be free.....Open your eyes, you can fly
Lizz Wright-"You Can Fly"


Love,
Supa

.
[Edited 9/11/04 12:42pm]

I love you too, Azure. You will always be special to me.

Stymie you are a very beautiful person. You have given alot of happiness to many people here at the Org.. And in real life. I am sure of that. You have a friend in me.

Madartista one can tell you are full of genuine love. I know that when you speak it is real.

I too have a story! A long story. It has been resolved and put behind me..

I thank God for my mother who allowed me to relive those horrible times. She allowed me to get angry with her, to hate her, to eventually love her for evermore..

To you that I don't know a great big

sag10 said:

Sag, what you said is so true. I believe that allowing yourself to be angry does help. Of course, you can't stay angry, but if you go on with your life and never acknowledge the abuse you have endured or witnessed....it will always be with you.

Personally, I choose to not think about it and even laughed it off, but only to keep myself from crying. I know now that I will have to get some great insurance to pay for my therapy The weird thing in my family is that NO ONE has ever acknowledged the fighting.....unless they were laughing about it. I was young, but I can never forget the screaming....the slaps....the police. Like I said, I was never physically abused, but seeing it and hearing it is just as bad.

My fears now are that I will fall into the same pattern of falling for abusive men. My sons father was mentally abusive, but for some reason I felt like that was all I was worth.....I know better now.

The thread was very eye opening for me and others as well.

Smooches;)

Supa, Teacher, Whateva. Polkadotsuit... big hugs to you all. I can relate.

Whateva... I understand completely your comment that you love and hate your dad for creating who you are today. I don't speak to my father anymore, and it's not out of hate for the abuse in the past, but simply for the fact that I no longer know who this man is, and haven't since he and my mom divorced 23 years ago. I can't remember a time hating my dad... but always feelings of "if we make it out of this alive, I want a big hug from him".

Thanks.


He had no idea of this side of him. He wasn't aware of any of it. During his rage, he would be in a complete black-out. The next day, she wouldn't mention it and he would immediately start drinking and think nothing of the furniture in the lawn (as, at that time he knew), or of the bruises on her body. He drank away what he had done. By the time he sobered up completely, and never drank another drop again, all of those memories had vanished.

How confeniend of his brain to do that for him.


To everyone who posted here and to those who haven't but have been victim to abuse, I'm going to use a quote that is simple, yet is truth. That which doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. And, everyone here holds that strength in their soul. There really is a purpose behind everything.

Thank you TOFKA for the wonderful conversation this morning

It amazes me in many of these stories how the children play the role of the adult and their parents as the children.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

That is because they never had a parent to take care of them when they where kids. So they keep on searching for that kind of love the rest of their lives.

We as their children could only survive by being what they needed. And now we are the ones searching for what we didn't have.

Ones we realize that we are never going to get what we ace for, and we realize that now we are adults we don't need it any longer (we are now capable to give it to our selfs) only than, we can start healing.

My Psychiatrist told me I had to morn for parents I never had, and that is the hardest thing to do. Morning for someone that died is hard but that person was real, unlike my parents, they have never been real parents to me and one other thing, they are still alive. How can you morn for a person still alive that wasn't really there. (This is so damned complicated it gives me a head ace )

I'm writing this down because this is what helped me a lot to understand what is going on inside me. I hope others can use it as well.

Whateva said:

This is very true, and very important. I feel like I never had a father. Don't get me wrong, there were good times when I was little, but in the recent years it's all turned to shit. So then that kinda makes you question the good stuff, ya know?

I've never thought of mourning him, just being pissed off! But I have heard of learning to be your own parent, i.e. learn to nurture yourself. It's kinda weird to think about... but basically you do what you think a mother or father would do for you. You take care of yourself. That's what loving yourself is all about!

AzureStarr said:

God Heather.... I never knew how bad your situation was. Thank you for contributing to this thread. I know it does help people when they realize they are not alone and that their situation has been shared by others I really liked the quote you ended with. It's so true. And I really honestly look at my horror as a trial by fire. I am stronger because of it. You can react one of two ways to it, choose to let it burn you alive, or choose to rise up like a phoenix. The choice is yours

There is a lyric in Pink’s song “Family portrait that kills me…. “I don’t want love to destroy me like it has done my family”. My parents got divorced when I was 4 and at 34 I’m just amazed at the impact it still has on my life. I could think about it and cry to this day. It hurts me to know how much it destroyed my mother and how vulnerable it made my sister and me in our adult lives in our own relationships with men.

There is another line in that song.…… “I don’t want to have to split the holidays, I don’t want 2 addresses, I don’t want a stepbrother anyways and I don’t want my mom to have to change her last name” The first time I heard the way she sang this part I just cried. I still do when I hear it. I realized that she was expressing something that my sister and I always had as a part of our lives. The divide that is created when you have 2 kids and a mother who have the same last name and then the mother gets married and she now has a different last name than you. It seems that you are continually being left behind. Your dad abandons your family, your mom abandons your name.

My mother worked and used her money to support the household. My father took his paychecks and drank and partied them away. My dad was a heavy drinker and a drug user. My father nearly drank himself to death. At one point his liver became swollen and it looked like he was pregnant. The doctor told him that he had 6 months to live if he kept on his current course. He quit drinking and drugs, but only after he had left us and was married to my stepmonster. A purely selfish, greedy bitch. Whose only concern was herself. My father has a huge greedy streak in him. This woman came from a wealthy family. My mother came from a dirt poor family. My mother didn’t have much to offer in the financial realm, she offered her heart and her love

Sylvia plied my father with gifts and money and luxuries, while we struggled at home. My mother would even go hungry sometimes to make sure that the rest of us, including my father ate. My father would expect my mother to cook him dinner and if he felt like it, he’d eat it. Sometimes he would just take the freshly prepared food and dump it in the trash right in front of my mother. That’s not what he wanted to eat. And there were times that she fixed him the last of the food in the house and he still threw it away and she would have to go without unless she wanted to dig through the trash to eat. What a way to love your wife huh?

My father told all kinds of lies about my mother. Mostly to justify his behavior. One time my grandmother came over and banged on the door. My mom opened it and to her amazement my grandmother stormed in and was just yelling at my mother telling her how she wasn’t doing her “wifely” duties and that she should be ashamed making my father go hungry. My father was there and he was like “Ah mom, nevermind. It’s OK. Just forget it”, my grandmother was not having it. My mother said “Alright, why don’t you tell me what I’m going to fix your son to eat.” She took her into the kitchen and opened up all the cabinets and the fridge. All empty because she had no money to buy food. My father was over telling his mom to fix him food because my mother refused to feed him. My mother told my grandmother “What do you expect me to cook him? We have no food”. She explained that she had no money for food after paying the mortgage and the bills. That my dad partied away his paychecks instead of buying food for the family. My grandmother went off on my dad, but not hard enough to help him to change. In the Mexican culture men get away with murder because the women are conditioned to accept all their bullshit. At least this is what I’ve seen in my life.

Before my dad left us for that witch, her parents told her to stop pursuing a married man. When my father left us her parents told her that they would disown her if she married my father. They told her to back off because he was married with children. But she had to have my dad. How sad this is. My dad was off with that woman and mother tracked him down and told him to just come home. That they could work things out. My dad said he would come back. On Tuesday my mother found my dad at his softball game. My sister and I both had colds but she bundled us up to go see him anyway. She was there. My dad came over and told my mom that she should go home because he didn’t want us getting sicker. My mom asked him what that woman was doing there, he had promised that he was going to dump her. My dad told my mom not to worry that he was going to break it off that night. That was Tuesday, on Thursday my mom received divorce papers. My mother begged and pleaded asking him why he was doing this. He said that he would have to eat crow and eat his pride by admitting that all the things he was telling people were not true. What a coward. They got married and what a burn on my dad, her parents did disown her so they had to struggle instead of live the good life like he thought they were going to do.

I remember when my dad would come pick us up for weekend visits. My mother would give us our bag of clothes in her bedroom so she wouldn’t have to see my dad. My mother would always be crying as she hugged us and I thought at the time she was crying because she was going to miss my sister and me and that she was going to be scared because she would be alone. I remember hugging her and telling her not to be scared because our dog would be there with her. For the rest of my life I will remember those sobs. How sad they were.

My dad came to get us intil I turned 12. That is when my mother remarried. As soon as she signed the marriage certificate, my father stopped coming around. He just stopped cold. We didn’t have his phone number and nobody on my dad’s side had it either or they were afraid to give it for fear of having to deal with that witch. I remember going to my granmda’s for Thanksgiving and Christmas year after year just hoping and waiting for my dad to show up. He never did.

When I was 16 I asked my Uncle Johnny if he had my dad’s phone number. He had it and he gave it to me but told me not to tell who I got it from. The thing that really astounds me is how everybody was afraid of that cunt. If any of my bothers married a woman who then tried to keep him from his own children, I would face that bitch in a heartbeat and with all my strength. I'd never back down in that situation. I would fight for those kids so hard. Well I called the phone number and then hung up on the first ring. I did that a few times. Finally I got up the nerve to stay on the phone as it rang. She answered the phone. I said “Is Richard there”, she said “He’s out doing yardwork with his sons. Who is this?”. I just made up some name and told her that I was one of my dad’s co-workers. She said “I know all my husbands friends and he doesn’t have a friend by that name. What Richard are you looking for?” I said “Richard Corona”. She laughed and then said “Isn’t that funny, my husbands first name is Richard but his last name is not Corona. You have the wrong number.” She hung up. I got the nerve to call the number the next day hoping my dad would answer and I got the following: *The number you have called is disconnected or no longer in service.” That fucking bitch changed the number!

When I graduated I hoped my dad would show up. He did not. I felt a huge void, and even though my dad wasn’t the best dad out there, he was still my dad and I loved him. That’s the hardest part about all this, your parents can hurt you in the most imaginable ways and you cannot help but love them. How can you not?

One day in my early 20s, this is actually after my break up with Paul, I got on the bus to go home and my dad was right there in the front seat. I said “Dad?!”. He said “Mijo” (pronounced Me-ho, it means my son in Spanish). I went over and we hugged and we talked all the way until he got off the bus. He had just moved home with my Grandmother. He had been living in the riverbed for about 6 months. He had gotten divorced and lost everything and was too proud to ask for help so he was homeless for a while.

While my dad was with that whore he became very successful. He started his own welding business and was making up to $400,000.00 a year. During the time he was making all that money we were struggling. Over the summer of my sophomore year I grew 8 inches. We usually went to school in last years clothes until about October when my mother would have the money to get us new clothes. This year I could not go in last years clothes. Obviously. My father had stopped paying child support shortly after my mom got remarried. His excuse? That bitch gave him such a hard time about sending us $160.00 each month that he decided it was easier to keep peace in the house and just stop the payments instead of listening to her rage on about it. At the time he stopped his payments he was making $400 k!! That is how greedy that bitch is. She can’t step off of $160.00, which is a pittance for child support for 2 kids, while she lives in the lap of luxury. I hate her so much. And I would even be willing to include her in my journey of forgiveness but she has not changed. At my grandfathers funeral, she was there and she actually told my dad "What is she doing here." My mother never did a damn thing to that bitch, and she has the nerve. Hello you stupid ass, my mother (and my sister and I) were on the scene first. YOU are the one who broke up our family. I can't stand her still and she can fuck off as far as I'm concerned. She does not deserve my forgiveness. She'd only take it and shit all over it. No thanks.

My dad was literally working himself to death. He was working so many hours that the doctor told him that his health was in jeopardy if he kept up the pace. So he sold the business and decided to do something else. As soon as the money stopped rolling in, that whore divorced my dad. My dad let the house go into foreclosure so that she would not get it. He lost everything. That is how he ended up homeless. For all the pain my dad caused us, he got paid back in spades.

Azure, one thing that you said that really struck me was how your dad did not remember his antics. For years my dad blamed my mom for the failings of their marrage. Accusing her of cheating and playing mind games, meanwhile he was the only guilty party. My mother gave a bazillion percent and would have even endured the physical abuse to be with him. She’s told me as much. I told my mom that she should not regret the divorce and to think about how much it would have affected us children to see her getting hit all the time. I only saw a few fights and they are etched in my mind like a fire brand. The other thing that struck me was when you said how charismatic your father is. My dad is the most amazing person when he's sober. He's been sober ever since he left us thank God. My dad has the craziest sense of humor, that's one thing I got from him. Looking at him now, it's hard to imagine the monster he used to be.

My mom and dad have reconciled as friends. Actually my mother has never stopped loving my dad. A few times my mother has told me about conversations they have had about the past and sometimes my father gets angry and thinks that my mom is making things up. She told him about how one time she wanted to take the tax return check and buy a washer and dryer. She was doing wash by hand and hanging them to air dry. My dad refused and blew the whole check on bullshit. He said “Mommy, did I really do that?”. He does not remember so many of the mean bad and awful things he did cuz he was so fucking loaded he was in a black out.

Talking about all this stuff and really connecting with all of you on this level is quite therapeutic. I love everybody for sharing

AzureStarr, I love you!

AzureStarr, I love you!

sag10 said:

cosign, sag...Azure I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes not only for you but for how strong all of you that have been through something so horrific and come through it the loving, caring people you are

SO MUCH respect to you

Natisse said:

People are amazing, really. Especially when it comes to what they can endure. I think that Supa's thread has shown that. And, as Gene Simmon's says, "Every day above ground is a good day..."