Here's the new 'orange' look Star Wars logo that will be gracing Episode III
merchandise in the new year (they've dispensed with the 'metallic' look from
the previous movies, and gone with a more 'comic book' vibe)

JediMaster said:

Wait a minute...if he's part ysalamiri, then how can he be a Sith at all? Wouldn't he jam the force from himself?

Oh, and I thought the Zahn books were horrible.

teller said:

JediMaster said:

Oooooh...heh...I just assumed, ya know...because of the lightsabers and all...

JediMaster said:

Glad I'm not the only one...man, they were just flat-out boring. It felt like the author wasn't really a fan. I didn't read much after that--only the Jedi Academy trilogy, which I thought was OK. At that point I decided that the books were all over the place, just stuff made up by various authors and presumably approved by Lucas--but not really canonical.

teller said:

I still like the Zahn books.

I must admit that I've never read any of the Star Wars books.
So I can't really comment on them, but I do remember George Lucas saying only things
that happened in the movies are considered strictly cannon, and everything else is up
for revision if he feels it's nesessary. I did hear a rumor that he's finally allowed the go
ahead on a series of books that will be set in what would have been Episodes 7-9's
timeframe. So I guess that means that the final trilogy is a definite NO (shame, I can
but dream though).

BorisFishpaw said:

He said the movies were canonical, the radio show was 2nd most canonical, and the books were somewhere in 3rd place or so...

Those radio shows were kick ass, btw.

you guys should ask that this thread be made into a sticky

Natsume said:

Man...it'll be next summer before we stop jerking off all over ourselves!

BorisFishpaw said:

The series of books referred to is probably what's out there already. Just about everything from Return of the Jedi to 30 years later (NJO: The Unifying Force) has been covered with yet another series of books forthcoming to cover the post-New Jedi Order era.

teller said:

Talk about "sticky"!!!!

MrJoker said:

Well, suppossedly Episodes VII-IX were going to focus on Jacen and Jaina in their twenties or so, which would place them squarely post-NJO (they were in their late teens during the course of those books). The rumour is that Lucas IS allowing a trilogy of books that would be based on the rough outline he had for the third trilogy.

JediMaster said:

That's what I heard too. Kinda depressing cuz it totally pulls the plug on Episodes VII-IX
ever getting made. Not that there really was much hope of that happening anyway, but
it least it was an outside possibility before.

BorisFishpaw said:

Is there no chance that Lucas will eventually pass the baton to someone else?

teller said:

I'm sure I heard him say that he would never let anyone else make a Star Wars movie.

It's a shame, cuz I'd like to have seen Episodes VII-IX on the big screen. If what I heard
about the basic plotline was correct, it would make a great finale to the series. Plus all the
original trilogy actors would be the right age to play their respective characters again
one last time.

BorisFishpaw said:

Well...he could always change his mind after the dust settles and he gets old...especially if one of his children became a filmmaker.

teller said:

If one of his kids wants to be a filmmaker, then I could completely see it happening. Otherwise I wouldn't count on it. I know his good buddy Speilberg wanted to do one of the prequels, but was pretty much shot down (not that that is a bad thing. All I have to do is watch "AI" or "Minority Report" to know that Steveo can't do Sci-Fi anymore).

As for the novels idea, I have to look at the positive side. If we are DEFINITELY not getting to see those movies, then at least we can read the story and imagine what could have been. Better than nothing, I suppose.

BorisFishpaw said:

Do share. What did you hear was the plot outline?? I've heard so many rumours over the years, but you seem to get fairly reliable info.

JediMaster said:

Well, from what I heard, it centres around the final attempt by the Sith to retake the galaxy.
In a nutshell it's this - After the failure of the Emperor, the true power behind the Sith decides
to reveal himself and finish the job himself: enter Darth Bane...

Now, there should be a 'reveal' in Episode III that ties in with this final trilogy where we learn
that Palpatine is actually the willing host of the spirit of Darth Bane, and Darth Sidious is the
manifestation of this alter-ego. The Emperor as seen in Episode VI is now more Bane than
Palpatine, and is changing physically and becoming more Bane-like (hence the yellow eyes).
(If this is not revealed, then I think that would confirm that Lucas won't make the final trilogy)

Bane's 'real' body (now over 2000 years old) resides in a kind of stasis on the secret Sith
homeworld while his conciousness has been using a series of hosts over the years. To cut a
long story short, Bane now masterminds a plot to overthrough the New Republic by force
(since his attempt to take it over from the inside failed).

Jacen and Jaina Solo become the central heroes in this new battle against evil as they fight
against Darth Bane's new Sith army. We get to see Han and Leia as figureheads of the New
Republic organising the galaxy's defense, while the action centers around Jacen and Jaina.
During this time, Luke Skywalker has gone 'walkabout' (in search of the truth), and when he
reappears (I think in Episode VIII), he's discovered that he's actually a descendant of Bane,
and that's why his family are so strong in the force.

Bane has a plan to turn the Force itself to his own ends (I don't know exactly how), and it's
up to Jacen, Jaina and Luke to find the Sith homeworld and thwart Bane once and for all,
returning balance to the Force forever.

Of course there's a lot more to it than that, but my info is a bit hazy (and sometimes
contradictory) about exactly 'how' it's all resolved. There's also a few twists along the way,
and a bit more history about why the Sith want 'Revenge' (apparently they were persecuted
in the early days by Jedi 'Crusades' for some of their beliefs, and driven to the Darkside,
whereas originally they were a balance of Light and Dark... or something like that). The
revelation of this knowledge almost turns Luke to the Darkside at one point.
[This message was edited Fri Jul 30 9:08:16 2004 by BorisFishpaw]

BorisFishpaw said:

Interesting. Some of it makes sense, and some doesn't. Much of this jives with Expanded Universe continuity, while other details not so much. Jacen and Jaina are there, but where are Mara Jade and Ben Skywalker? I'm doubtful that Lucas would use some major elements, while completely ignoring others. Its true that he has done some of that in the past, namely using Coruscant from the novels, but ignoring all the various Boba Fett origins. The latter isn't all that big of a deal, since there were so many contradictions about this (and they did a brilliant job of explaining this away in the novels, stating that the different origins were stories that Fett had spread to add to his reputation). Still, would he ignore a fan favorite character like Mara?? Would he erase their child? If this is made into novels, I highly doubt it. Most likely, the author would wind up incorporating all those details into Lucas's story.

As for the Darth Bane bit, this is quite intriguing. Is what he tells Luke just a deception, or were the Sith actually persecuted? If the latter is correct, then so much of the established history of the SW Universe is actually false. Established continuity states that the Sith were once Jedi. At one point, a group of Jedi who believed that The Force should be used for personal gain split off to form the Order Of The Sith. They battled the Jedi for control over the galaxy for centuries. This culminated in the Sith War, roughly 1000 years prior to Episode I. This last stand of the Sith was led by Darth Bane, who attempted to unite the various factions of his order against the Jedi. Infighting and backstabbing amongst the Sith led to their defeat. Darth Bane, the sole survivor of The Sith, then declared that only two Sith would exist at a time: a master and an apprentice. While the Jedi ran afoul of Bane once or twice thereafter (thus explaining how Yoda knew of the "two at a time" rule), for the most part he went underground. From that point on, the Dark Lords would plot their revenge in secret, leading the Jedi to believe that The Sith were now extinct.

Now, it could be that Bane and the Sith BELIEVE that they were persecuted for their belief in the Dark Side, but I tend to think this would be a manipulitive ploy to lure Luke away from the Jedi Order he had resurrected. Is Bane his ancestor? Very intriguing if so, and the implications for the Skywalker and Solo clans are pretty staggering (since Jacen and Jaina would also be decendants of Bane!!!)

Thanks for the info, Boris!!! Love to speculate on this kind of stuff!!!

JediMaster said:

I'm pretty sure my info dates from way back (probably before most of the expanded universe
stuff had been written), as there's no mention of Mara Jade, or Luke having any offspring.
There's also no mention of Anakin Solo either. Though interestingly, Bane's main hench'man'
in the final trilogy is a female Sith who I'm pretty sure was called Darth Jade, and who wielded
2 lightsabers (very much like the Sith Witch in the Clone Wars cartoon). And the initial plot
in Episode VII was with her leading the new Sith assault with an alien army of allies from
some of the outer rim worlds. This was possible because of rampant discimination and
racism against non-human aliens in the days of the Empire, causing a lot of the outlying
alien worlds to harbour understandable bad feeling towards the richer human dominated
central planets (a situation which of course was engineered by Bane in the first place).

I do remember hearing George Lucas himself say in an interview a loooong time ago
(sometime soon after Return Of The Jedi) that he had completed draughts for all 9 films.
And the reason he'd made them out of sequence was that they actually work well in that
order. You start in the middle with the small band of rebels fighting small battles to
overthrough the evil empire. Then you go back to the start to see how this situation occured
and see some of the bigger clone war battles. Then you fast forward to the future and see
the massive battles that finish the story. So that in the end, what we've seen in (the original)
Star Wars trilogy is just a small scale smal part of a much bigger and epic story arc.
(or something like that).
[This message was edited Fri Jul 30 15:02:55 2004 by BorisFishpaw]

BorisFishpaw said:

Not mentioning Anakin Solo isn't too big of a deal since he died before the NJO series ended.

As for Bane being related to Luke...

Bane: "Luke, I am your great great great great great great great great great great grandfather."
Luke: "NOOOoooooOOOOOooooo!"

JediMaster said:

Just to add a bit more info about the apparent discrepancy between the Expanded Universe
story about how the Sith came to be and what is revealed in Episodes VII-IX. Basically there
are 2 'Siths'. The 'Sith' that split from the Jedi order over 1,000 years before Episode I were
not the original Sith that are talked about in Episodes VII-IX. The 'Original' Sith predate them
by a looong time and had been alegedly exterminated by the first Jedi in 'crusades'. It's also
implied that they were a specific race from a particular planet (the long lost Sith homeworld
where Bane now resides). It was the discovery of this ancient ruined Sith homeworld and it's
archives of Sith techniques and history that prompted the first 'dark' Jedi to study their ways
and take on the 'Sith' name as their own. I even remember seeing some rough sketches
of ancient ruined cathedral like buildings on the Sith homeworld ages ago (all very 'gothic').

Maybe I ought to look into the expanded universe a bit, just to see if this really contradicts
what has been written or not. Does it say who the first 'Dark Jedi'/Sith was, and what prompted
them to turn to the darkside?
[This message was edited Sun Aug 1 16:10:15 2004 by BorisFishpaw]

BorisFishpaw said:

Actually, all of that is consistent with the EU. The whole thing with the Sith being a specific race, who became power-hungry and tried to take over the galaxy, is in the EU continuity. The Sith were a race of force users who turned to the Dark Side and tried to conquer the galaxy. The Jedi took them on, and wound up pretty much eradicating them in the process (this was actually more due to the fact that the Sith were determined to take the galaxy at all cost). The "Dark Jedi" who split from the order took the Sith name because they had adopted their philosphies (think of them as being much like Neo-Nazis. They used their name and philosophies, regardless of whether or not they were German)

So Boris, you heard any rumours as to what film they plan to attach the teaser trailer to??

JediMaster said:

Not yet (I think it's a bit too early for that yet)
But I hear that it should start appearing sometime in November
(have to check out what big Fox pictures open in November that might be likely contenders)

From what I hear there's now several 'chunks' of the movie finished, and the whole thing
has already been strung together into a rough cut to check length and pacing. From what I've
heard the opening 10 minute space battle sequence is pretty mindblowing (think final battle
in Return Of The Jedi, only even more full-on and with the camera flying through the action
like some demented 3D rollercoaster ride too), and this has now been completed.

BorisFishpaw said:

Well, last time out the teaser DIDN'T appear on a Fox movie! It was attached to the Pixar flick Monster's Inc! Isn't The Incredibles from Pixar due around then????

I've also heard great things about the opening, as well as the Anakin vs Obi-Wan Saber duel, which is suppossed to be the longest swordfight ever on film!!!

JediMaster said:

Very interesting. I'll definitely have to look into the expanded universe further, as it seems
to not be in contradiction with what I've heard about the final trilogy (which I'd always asumed
it would be). I wish Lucas would change his mind about Episodes VII-IX. It would be great see
Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill return to their characters again, even if they are
little more than glorified cameos (apart from Luke, who plays a big part in the final 2).

JediMaster said:

I think you're right!
Sounds like The Incredibles is a pretty good bet.