JediMaster said:

Don't make me break out Ron Frenz and norm breyfogle--can't stand those guys either.

silentflute said:

My only real exposure to Breyfogle was his run on the Batman books. From what I remember of it, I liked it, but that was a long time ago. I may have a totally different viewpoint nowadays.

JediMaster said:

I agree with you on Liefeld, and Larsen...but I really like McFarlane. I don't see how you think he's not talented. His style is very distinctive...his visual interpretation of Hulk, and Spidey...when he had a run in those comics, was so stunning. His style blended Art Adams, and Michael Golden...and yet, was fresh with his own specific style. His work on Spidey redeifined the character, for the better. His illustration style is so unique, and when he stepped onto the scene, he brought so many fresh ideas to the table. He utilized never before seen techniques, adding realism to the physical appearances of his characters, by adjusting their individual postures in accordance with the derivatives of the characters’ abilities and powers. (i.e. with Spider Man, when he'd draw Spidey in spider-like positions as opposed to the flat-footed straightened postures like everyone before him) His take on other villians, giving them a more dark, and sinister appearance, and the action sequences he would create! I mean he co-created Venom...one of THE best villians of all time. And then his work with Spawn, the controversial stories, the artwork....how could you not like him?
[This message was edited Wed Jul 14 13:53:08 2004 by MintyFresh]

MintyFresh said:

Okay, I'll give you that he did do a whole lot to really bring Spidey into the modern age, but he also introduced the whole gimmick type of thing. First off, I HATE the character of Venom. I think he is one-dimensional at best, and was nothing more than a glorified stunt. If he had only made the one appearance, that would have been fine, but they made him a regular character in the Spidey books for years, and he really didn't have what it takes to be any more than a one time thing. Visually, its the black suit with a mouth on a more muscular guy. I just don't see this as an accomplishement artistically.

Same goes for Spawn. The character is a re-tread in every sense. His look is pretty much the same as The Prowler, whom he created for Marvel, and the character's story is essentially a rip-off of The Crow with a dash of Ghost Rider in there. I read the book for years, and it never went anywhere. 10 years on, Al Simmons was still sitting up on Churches whining about Wanda.

I'll agree that the guy has talent, but he is EXCEPTIONALLY overrated. He did provide a fresh perspective for Spider-Man, and that is great (mainly because it broke the rule that everyone had to rip-off Romita SR). I do enjoy the way he made the web-head much more spider-like. What I don't like is how he turned Mary Jane from an interesting girl next door, to a big-haired bimbo. He ruined the character for years, and its only recently (thanks to Strazynski) that she has returned to her former glory.

His run on the book titled Spider-Man (that Marvel gave him in order to showcase his talents) was especially bad, because TM just decided to throw out the essential aspects of Peter's character (like the quips at the villians, etc), in favour of making him "darker". This started a trend across the board in the 90s that irritated the snot out of me. Okay, its fine for Batman and The Punisher to be dark, but Spidey? Please! That so flies in the face of who that character is. Not every character needs to be like Wolverine.

All in all, I think the guy is decent, but not nearly as good as many people think he is. He's also a major jackass in person. I met him once, and thought he was a total prick. Now, I can seperate out someone's art from their attitude *cough, cough, Prince, cough*, but I really got the impression that he buys all the hype about himself.

Okay, hopefully I was clear enough on why I don't care for him. I'll concede your points on his accomplishments and talent, but I have to disagree that he is that great .

JediMaster said:

Well said Jedi.
Also,completly agree with you on the "let's make all our characters dark and tortured"trend that happened after Dark Knight and Watchmen.The whole industry just went overboard,and they just couldn't see that charcaters like Spidey and Supes just can't be written that way.Goes against the nature of the character and what they represent.
Frank Miller once pointed out that Spider-Man isn't a story about an adolescent in tights,it's about adolescence in heroic proportions.Alot of folks(specifically corportae bigwigs) just don't get that.

silentflute said:

EXACTLY!!

I got so annoyed with that whole trend. Its fine for certain characters, like Batman, Wolverine, etc, but Supes and Spidey are NOT about that at all. Sure Spider-Man has angst, but its the everyday angst of Peter Parker. For that matter its the everyday angst of ALL of us. We identify with Peter, because he has the same problems as everyone else when he's not in the suit. The costume is his barrier between himself and the ugliness of the world, so that's why he can make smart-ass comments while fighting his foes.

Superman is the personification of the American ideal in every way. He is an immigrant (from another planet, but still), who comes to Kansas (the heartland, naturally) as a child. He uses his talents to become successful, and defend his adopted country. Not much place for dark and tortured in that. I guess its not surprising that the 90s saw the gimmicky story arc of "The Death Of Superman". Superman is an iconic character who is the polar opposite of that trend, and he just didn't fit in. Even his "rebirth" was a lame attempt to bring him back as "grittier" (he had a mullet, for Pete's sake!!!). Thankfully, that seems to be going away nowadays. Supes and Batman share a book where the contrast is sharply noted, and explored (as it should be!!)

silentflute said:[quote]

scififilmnerd said:

Bland?!
You can't be freaking serious!!!
His work is so extremely detailed that you can almost see every single grain of sand. Also, no one is able to do the work he's done (Crisis On Infinite Earths, for example).
Give your head a shake...but not too hard...your other picks were valid.