What are your thoughts about this man?



Do you think that society and the institutions made him the man that he became or do you think that he was born a criminal?



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[This message was edited Thu Jul 8 16:44:37 2004 by AzureStarr]

i dunno, but i find 'im rather interesting. i've read the book helter skelter lotsa times...good read.

I'm not sure that people are genetically predisposed to kill, but then many people have terrible childhoods etc and dont grow up to become serial killers. It's a tough one. I tend to think that his environment created him, if I had to choose one or the other.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

Yes, that's a good book. Have you read his autobiography? That's a very good read, too... explains things from his perspective.

Lleena said:

I agree, Llee. That's what I tend to think, too. He had no childhood, his mother giving him up at a young age, being incarcerated and raped while a teen, growing up behind bars with other criminals... I tend to think that it's the only life he knew.

Manson was on Entertainment Tonight not long ago and he said this.....


" I like animals...

(moves head in circles, looks around the room)


.....I like trees...


(he sighs,moves his head in circles, looks around the room)


People?????


People..... (sighs again)



I don't get along with people to well."


He then laughs like a motherbleeping loon.


That's about all I know about Manson, well that and he had a bunch of hippie chicks named star and sunshine etc. who thought he was Jesus go out and kill people.


As far as why?

Nature vs. Nurture

who knows

probably a little of both add drug abuse and a comanding personality in the mix and it equals trouble.

I was actually watching a well researched show on tv recently that was discussing this very subject. It turns out that many killers and sociopaths etc have low seratonin levels which creates a poor impulse control. People who are mistreated as youngsters (and literally dont get mothers love) dont produce as much seratonin in their brains.

The upshot of all this is that there are some physical reasons for sociopathis behaviour which are greatly influenced by your upbringing.

Sweeny79 said:

I don't believe that he could act looney!

bkw said:

In other words: no tractor.

bkw said:

That's very interesting. I would have liked to have watched that show.

2the9s said:

...or, too many tractors.

i think it's part nature, but mostly nurture. he's a product of the juvenille detention system, which is fucked up now, so i can't even imagine how fucked up it was back when he was a kid. i think he's a perfect example of someone that, through neglect and abuse, mentally slips through the cracks and and as a result, developmentally mutates and surfaces into what we all know he became.

i think he's a fascinating guy - whether we like it or not, he's certainly a major icon of the 20th century.

Believe it or not Charlie never killed anyone, he had his angels do the dirty work. He and Adolph Hitler were geniuses when it came to manipulating others to kill at their command. Amazingly enough one of his angels , Squiggy Fom (maybe misspelled) escaped from prison a few years ago but was caught shortly after. Wonder if Charlie had anything to do with it.

charlies angels full throtle

Evil man I hear he was.

He strikes me the old adage there is a thin line between genius and insanity.

I have seen a few different interviews where in he prattles like a loon and then turns and speaks with deep clarity and ability.

Crazy as a fox? I would say a deep mix of nature and nurture. Perhaps the monster would not have triggered had traumatic events not occurred. Hard to say for certain.
I do know this..... Look in that mans eyes,there within is something rarely seen and not quite human in nature in my honest opinion. Perhaps what one sees when the soul is devoid. I don't know. It would seem it is filled with something however.

bkw said:

So if they have found that out - why can they not give people who are having problems like Manson's doses of seratonin - or if they found people with that problem give them seratonin so that they did have to live out life in that kind of pain.

I truly think that a child not getting enough love in the early stages of life can have an affect on the child - I think that it could cause a child to have problems with close relationships and loving in general.

cocogrille said:

The research they did showed the connection but it did not attempt provide an answer to the problem.

Many anti-depressant medications such as Prosac assist the brain to uptake seratonin. That may help some people I suppose but in many cases I'm assuming the damage is done.

There is no doubt that manyother factors come into play.

They were on DRUGS....It Was the HIPPIE time....They were SICKOS who Hated the ESTABLISHMENT.... Hated the RICH...They Called the RICH PIGS...They KILLED INNOCENT PEOPLE for WHAT??? THEY were ALL CRAZY NUTCASES...I Don't Know about Charlie's Background but of COURSE THAT INFLUENCES WHO he IS...He NEEDED COUNSELING....

AzureStarr said:

But... at the same time, lots of people have experienced the same thing. As terrible as it may seem. Yet they didn't all turn into serial killers.

Nine inch Nails and Marilyn seem to like the crazy little fellow. They're all disturbed.

Anxiety said:

I couldn't agree more!!

Muse2NOPharaoh said:

You know, he always claims that the goverment and society have killed him... and that they may kill him now, but the only thing they can never take from him is his soul... no matter how hard they try and that's what he hangs on to.

I have to wonder, though... if we, ourselves, wouldn't prattle like a loon and then speak with deep clairity and abilty, as if we were crazy, if we were incarcerated for the majority of our lives and had to deal with the horrible things he had to, since the age of eight... with no one to turn to, no family. I simply cannot imagine how I would act, feel or what sort of look I would have in my eyes, having gone through what he has.

Zelaira said:

They killed innocent people because they were trying to make it appear like the "blacks" did it because of a killing that took place earlier in which Manson thought he killed a Black Panther, or so Mason has said... who knows. They were trying to cover up their steps... which is why they went into the rich neighborhood.

Agreed that the drugs helped them all in following through with what they did. But, a lot of hippies were dropping LSD in those days...



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[This message was edited Fri Jul 9 6:17:45 2004 by AzureStarr]

Natsume said:

That's very true, Nat. I dunno... I have a lot to say on this but I gotta scoot out of here... Grrrr... it will give me something to think about while I am out and about today!

i read an autobigraphy that he wrote in prison

it pulled no punches and he denied nothing

and he sounds sane in the book as opposed to the rambler you see geraldo interviewing

Anxiety said:

I tend to agree with Anxiety...

MISSEDherPiNK said:

Not true. The point of the name "Marilyn Manson" is that there is very little difference between the way the American media portrays famous stars and killers. Both are, in a very sick way, celebrated. All the original members of MM's band had names combining starlets with murderers (Twiggy Ramirez, Madonna Wayne Gacy, Ginger Fish, etc). This is hardly a celebration of Charles Manson, but rather an indictment of our media-obsessed soceity.

As for Charlie, the guy isn't crazy, but he wants people to think he is. He has more power that way (and you better believe, he still has power in prison). He was into CONTROL. He managed to get his little cult to kill for him, and that was what it was all about.