U woke up after u realized you mind was narrow?

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

When i first saw this video ...a couple of years ago or so, the first thing that came to mind was how simple-minded it was and narrow-minded it was. All popular music has found a sound and milked it to death Ragtime Country Disco Grunge Soul Techno On and on.

[Edited 1/20/19 22:01pm]

modified said:

bonatoc said:

modified said:

That was kinda the point. Go listen to those listed artists and report back if I am wrong.

Start here, a song that is better than anything produced in the 1960s, 70s or 80s - play loud, headphones:

[...]

For the record, I am old myself, pushing 50. I hope I still have a few decades in me. Why whould you want to live in the past? Prince's main problem was that he lost connection with what was happening sometime in the late 1980s, when he moved into Paisley Park. Consider this; why was Prince not a central figure in the neo-soul movement, for example?

I could not get past one minute of your lame Fugees imitators,
which were already Soul II Soul imitators themselves, which were already, etc...

Please go get a real, decent musical culture before you dare
speaking about "anything produced" in the most creative decades for pop,
or about your self-deluding "Prince's problems".

You sound like an old fart who'll listen to anything modern
for fear anyone notices his receding hair.
"Neo-soul movement"... Gimme a break.

The more you listen to stuff pre-seventies,
the more you understand how pathetic the music industry is (and it was bad already, from the beginning).
Most of it, if not all of it nowadays, is rehashing ideas that are fifty years old or more.

Everything has been said, the trouble with pop is that it's always the same fucking chord sequences,
the same fucking sonic recipees to which the untrained ear and brain goes "whoa".
Only now it's total cynicism, cynicism you can actually hear.
The kids love it, because that's the last corner left where to retreat.
But that's not rebellious at all. That's surviving a few months in the illusion of detachment,
before going back in line and get a bullshit job.
Pop music has never been so cowardish: its so-called "artists" are more than happy
to suck the system or give their ass, even in the smallest niche.
The capitalist notion of competition fucked their mind since their childhood.

It's not about artistic expression (the very concept is foreign, being totally absent from general education),
it's about egotism to the tune of something clearly identifiable,
something familiar with a bit of fake pizzaz copied from cult records long forgotten,
except by the cynical producer with a pool and an ex-wife bills to pay.

The only excuse the young public has, is society's fragmentation, and capitalism perverting everything and everyone.
Since the faucet never stopped, I don't blame them for not being able to go back to the sources.
I mean good luck. They have tons of trash to dig in. Some things may sound good and original,
but guess what, no, it's just a washed-out photocopy of some original, brilliant, dead in poverty artist.
But the ones that believe in the curation and the intellect are derided, because the system needs
for them to be considered an elite. Knowledge is the enemy. We don't want you to read the list of ingredients too closely.
Why bother when hundreds of Motown's Golden Age copycats (with their authentic Rhodes plug-in on, just like your phony example intro)
or dozens of seventies British punk imitations are at hand?

Pop has been dead for a good two decades now. And by pop I mean "popular". Everything has become a niche.
There are only 10 artists in the world (revealed in the present decade) whose sells are so ubiquitous
they can be qualified as having "popular" success, and they only produce inoffensive,
bland shit aimed at teen-agers or the housewife, stuff ideal to do the dishes, your errands or a jogging,
mass-consumption aural products, with prefabricated sounds, prefabricated emotions,
and always present, governing all, the underlying roman catholic fantasy of becoming the ultimate star,
the one that sits on Mount Olympus, the American Dream shtick again,
the one that makes all the hamsters turn frantically their wheels
in the hope they will someday be The One.
10 "ones" in, let's say, 3 billions Western World working ants.
There are greater odds in winning a Big Lottery Prize.

And what does all of this have to do with music?
Very, very little. Acquiring a critical sense takes decades,
but capitalism operates at the nano-second. An audio orgasm
will take you by surprise, it's not something you can buy.
It's something you will heard through the grapevine.
But the grapevine is dead, dried up by companies run by guys
who are friends with guys that run Monsanto. They don't give a fuck about educating.
« Here, have this crappy wine, or maybe some low-calories grape juice?
No worries, I'll come out with something you can buy. »

As someone reasonably said,
stop caring and go underground.

Prefer a Feast of Friends
To the Giant Family.

A-fockin'-men.

[Edited 1/12/19 16:29pm]

I know you were responding to an irresponsible overstatement.

But for the love of all that's good.

Get over yourself.

[Edited 1/21/19 19:13pm]

MotownSubdivision said:

modified said:

Thank you. Exactly. And it is not just tools in the technical sense. Kids now have so much information at their fingertips. They explore, go deep into music history, theory and technique - see scales and modes, circle of fifths on YouTube, etc. There is a serious jazz renaissance going on that is also feeding into pop music. Acts like Knower and Dirty Loops can superficially sound like millennial whoop crap, but are actually virtuoso musicians.

For the record, I am old myself, pushing 50. I hope I still have a few decades in me. Why whould you want to live in the past? Prince's main problem was that he lost connection with what was happening sometime in the late 1980s, when he moved into Paisley Park. Consider this; why was Prince not a central figure in the neo-soul movement, for example?

[Edited 12/29/18 5:12am]

That song is weak. Like the art though.

It actually isn't, but try the album out.

namepeace said:

2freaky4church1 said:

Why don't people support local artists?

Fortunately, there are still good artists out there, young and not so young... You just have to dig 'em out now...like the proverbial needle in a haystack...

728huey said:

mrwiggles said:

Pop music is and what it's always been. It's geared and marketed to a 13 year old girl. And you know what? These kids out here LOVE it. Every generation always disses the music that comes after them, me included.
But like the Dr GC so succinctly says, whatever the older folks hate...that's gonna be the next thang.

I don't get how these "music today sucks" stories get by with comparisons of artists like the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, the Who, Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan, Jefferson Airplane, and the Yardbirds with obvious pop artists like Justin Bieber, Katy Perry, Taylor Swift, Miley Cyrus, Ariana Grande, and Ed Sheeran. Outside of the Beatles and maybe the Stones, none of those other artists were considered mainstream at that time. That's showing a musical bias. There were plenty of crappy pop songs and crappy pop artists in the 1960's and the reason we don't hear much if anything about them now is because they were crap. For every "Hey Jude", "Sympathy for the Devil", or "Purple Haze", you had stuff like "Louie Louie", "Wolly Bully", "Sugar Sugar", "96 Tears", or most of Herman’s Hermits' discography. Sure, it's okay to complain about Max Martin and the Millennial whoop, but how is that any different from Phil Spector and his wall of sound in the 1960's, Giorgio Moroder's disco sound or the LA soft rock sound of the 1970's, or the Stock Aiken Waterman sounds of the mid to late 1980's? Every generation has its own sound and rhythm,and this Millennial whoop is this generation's musical signature.

ReddBlitz said:

it has gotten overtaken by capitalist greedy execs and such renowned corporate heads whose only interest and bottom line is 💰.

The music industry has always been about money. That's how the record label heads & publishing companies got rich by getting the royalties, but paid the artists with cars, fur coats, women, drugs, booze, etc instead of money. Some would get a flat fee for each song they recorded, but not get royalties from sales. They'd tell acts that they sold less (or more) than they really did. Decades ago the mafia or street thugs were behind a lot of the clubs acts played in and the distribution of records. The mob guys beat up performers, hung them from balconies to force them to resign. That happened to Jackie Wilson. The mob once put a hit on Sammy Davis Jr, because he owed them money. Frank Sinatra had to talk them out of it. Club promoters often refoused to pay. So artists carried guns or would not play unless paid up front. Label heads and artist managers added their names to songwriting credits. Some radio DJs would ask for writing credits in exchange for playing the records like Alan Freed. All of those older performers didn't die broke because the entertainment industry was honest. RCA Records in its early days had different colored labels. The "high class" label that had classical music and opera singers was red, and charged a higher price for them. The "low class" popular music records had a black label and was sold for a cheaper price.

MickyDolenz said:

ReddBlitz said:

The music industry was never really honest. They were just "slick." A load of artists were ripped off back then and died penniless. Especially the case with most Black artists.

Bad contracts was how The Beatles & other artists lost their publishing that Michael Jackson was later able to buy. Unless they sell a huge amount of records, recording artists usually remain in the hole with their labels. Now since records don't sell as much, labels came up with 360 deals where they get money form touring and/or artist merchandising.

MickyDolenz said:

ReddBlitz said:

it has gotten overtaken by capitalist greedy execs and such renowned corporate heads whose only interest and bottom line is 💰.

The music industry has always been about money.

That's how the record label heads & publishing companies got rich by getting the royalties, but paid the artists with cars, fur coats, women, drugs, booze, etc instead of money. Some would get a flat fee for each song they recorded, but not get royalties from sales.

They'd tell acts that they sold less (or more) than they really did. Decades ago the mafia or street thugs were behind a lot of the clubs acts played in and the distribution of records. The mob guys beat up performers, hung them from balconies to force them to resign. That happened to Jackie Wilson. The mob once put a hit on Sammy Davis Jr, because he owed them money. Frank Sinatra had to talk them out of it. Club promoters often refoused to pay.

So artists carried guns or would not play unless paid up front. Label heads and artist managers added their names to songwriting credits. Some radio DJs would ask for writing credits in exchange for playing the records like Alan Freed. All of those older performers didn't die broke because the entertainment industry was honest. RCA Records in its early days had different colored labels. The "high class" label that had classical music and opera singers was red, and charged a higher price for them. The "low class" popular music records had a black label and was sold for a cheaper price.

Nope. Not in the sense you mean.
According to you, it's all rock'n'roll decadence.

There are countless examples of classic records being made out of love for the music.
The producers were just trying to make it even and fill the fridge of everyone involved.

"Artists carried guns"! That was a fun one. Seriously?
There's more to the world than Chuck Berry.
A few radical examples don't make the standard.

And then you say "the entertainment industry was honest".
Well, make up your mind, which one is it?

[Edited 1/22/19 10:56am]

namepeace said:

But for the love of all that's good.

Get over yourself.

I'll die before I let you tell me how to swim, dude.
Use your mousewheel. Ignore me. I beg you.

[Edited 1/22/19 10:05am]

bonatoc said:

There are countless examples of classic records being made out of love for the music.
The producers were just trying to make it even and fill the fridge of everyone involved.

That has nothing to do with the record labels ripping off artists and taking advantage of them.

bonatoc said:

"Artists carried guns"!

Are you not aware that black and other non-white performers might be attacked by racist rednecks in the southern USA before the 1970s? Performers carried guns for protection, especially ones that played the chitlin circuit. They couldn't stay in the hotels with whites, nor eat in white restaurants. There was even separate water fountains for non-whites and they usually couldn't enter in the front of places they played in. Guns were also used for dishonest promoters who wouldn't pay.

Nat King Cole Attacked on Stage By 6 Men at Alabama Concert

Daily Illinois, April 11, 1956 *

Micky, I'm not a mod, but is it the subject?
I'm aware of what the Southern Belt was and still is.
We're talking modern music, which, the last time I checked,
was the playground for a lot of black folks, so I think the racial question is solved (cough cough),
if not in society (although, Obama was symptomatic of the last Jericho wall falling), at least in the charts.

It seems like the racial question has become the Godwin point on the Org.
I think there is a dedicated section in the forums, but again, I'm no mod,
I don't want to sound like I'm calling you to order, you raise an important problem,
but it's not modern. "Modern" is Kanye in the West Wing. Whether this has some social relevancy is another question.
But "modern music" is no longer the subject if we start to consider things from that perspective.

bonatoc said:

Micky, I'm not a mod, but is it the subject?

You responded to me. I didn't make any comment to you because I don't read your posts, because they never make any sense to me. I was talking to someone else and said nothing about race to them, but that the record business is no different than it has always been. You were the one who made that Chuck Berry comment, like he was the only person who had a gun. So I explained why a performer would carry a gun back then.

2freaky4church1 said:

Why don't people support local artists?

Local artists have no visual gimmicks.
No awareness of the gigs, because even local media outlets only support bigtime shows.
People support hits, ie. songs they already heard a kajillion times.
Things are slightly better for bands known for playing cover songs (well).

namepeace said:

bonatoc said:

I could not get past one minute of your lame Fugees imitators,
which were already Soul II Soul imitators themselves, which were already, etc...

Please go get a real, decent musical culture before you dare
speaking about "anything produced" in the most creative decades for pop,
or about your self-deluding "Prince's problems".

You sound like an old fart who'll listen to anything modern
for fear anyone notices his receding hair.
"Neo-soul movement"... Gimme a break.

The more you listen to stuff pre-seventies,
the more you understand how pathetic the music industry is (and it was bad already, from the beginning).
Most of it, if not all of it nowadays, is rehashing ideas that are fifty years old or more.

Everything has been said, the trouble with pop is that it's always the same fucking chord sequences,
the same fucking sonic recipees to which the untrained ear and brain goes "whoa".
Only now it's total cynicism, cynicism you can actually hear.
The kids love it, because that's the last corner left where to retreat.
But that's not rebellious at all. That's surviving a few months in the illusion of detachment,
before going back in line and get a bullshit job.
Pop music has never been so cowardish: its so-called "artists" are more than happy
to suck the system or give their ass, even in the smallest niche.
The capitalist notion of competition fucked their mind since their childhood.

It's not about artistic expression (the very concept is foreign, being totally absent from general education),
it's about egotism to the tune of something clearly identifiable,
something familiar with a bit of fake pizzaz copied from cult records long forgotten,
except by the cynical producer with a pool and an ex-wife bills to pay.

The only excuse the young public has, is society's fragmentation, and capitalism perverting everything and everyone.
Since the faucet never stopped, I don't blame them for not being able to go back to the sources.
I mean good luck. They have tons of trash to dig in. Some things may sound good and original,
but guess what, no, it's just a washed-out photocopy of some original, brilliant, dead in poverty artist.
But the ones that believe in the curation and the intellect are derided, because the system needs
for them to be considered an elite. Knowledge is the enemy. We don't want you to read the list of ingredients too closely.
Why bother when hundreds of Motown's Golden Age copycats (with their authentic Rhodes plug-in on, just like your phony example intro)
or dozens of seventies British punk imitations are at hand?

Pop has been dead for a good two decades now. And by pop I mean "popular". Everything has become a niche.
There are only 10 artists in the world (revealed in the present decade) whose sells are so ubiquitous
they can be qualified as having "popular" success, and they only produce inoffensive,
bland shit aimed at teen-agers or the housewife, stuff ideal to do the dishes, your errands or a jogging,
mass-consumption aural products, with prefabricated sounds, prefabricated emotions,
and always present, governing all, the underlying roman catholic fantasy of becoming the ultimate star,
the one that sits on Mount Olympus, the American Dream shtick again,
the one that makes all the hamsters turn frantically their wheels
in the hope they will someday be The One.
10 "ones" in, let's say, 3 billions Western World working ants.
There are greater odds in winning a Big Lottery Prize.

And what does all of this have to do with music?
Very, very little. Acquiring a critical sense takes decades,
but capitalism operates at the nano-second. An audio orgasm
will take you by surprise, it's not something you can buy.
It's something you will heard through the grapevine.
But the grapevine is dead, dried up by companies run by guys
who are friends with guys that run Monsanto. They don't give a fuck about educating.
« Here, have this crappy wine, or maybe some low-calories grape juice?
No worries, I'll come out with something you can buy. »

As someone reasonably said,
stop caring and go underground.

Prefer a Feast of Friends
To the Giant Family.

A-fockin'-men.

[Edited 1/12/19 16:29pm]

I know you were responding to an irresponsible overstatement.

But for the love of all that's good.

Get over yourself.

[Edited 1/21/19 19:13pm]

MotownSubdivision said:

babynoz said:

Here we go a-fucking-gain.

No one is saying there isn't any good music out there, "sigh". The thing is that the RATIO of good music vs. brain rot is different. There used to be a thing called a "one hit wonder", which is where most of the brain rot could be found back in the day. Not many brain rot type artists lasted very long and weren't shoved down people's throats like they are in the era of social media.

A Cardi or Tekashi would have had to compete with authentic artists on a more level field and would have been blown out of the water. Now the hype machine favors fake artists who are much cheaper to produce much like reality shows are cheaper to produce than TV shows with professional actors. We live in a fake era where even the head of state is a reality show star....wtf do you expect?

As I keep saying until I am blue in the face, the public are the only ones who can stop the race to the bottom. The suits will keep feeding us shit as long as they can get away with it.

I understand that each generation has its own soundtrack but I gotta say, more and more young people are trying to find real artists again. The tide is turning back toward genuine creatives with real talent and against fake media personalities like Jarquees. The thing that I wish the younglings would do is make their own damn music. If modern music is sooo great why is there still such widespread blatant biting from our generation? That goes for endless movie and tv remakes as well as music.

There are original young artists out there who don't get any recognition.

Luke James

Ro James

BJ the Chicago Kid

Jacob Banks

The Internet

Just to name a few.

Prince was already an international superstar and a legend with an army of fans by the time he went to war with the industry but these young emerging artists don't have that kind of leverage. All they have is us so I suggest you get busy if you're sick of the brain rot.

Perfect post. I'll say this though: quite a few one-hit wonders back then were actually talented in their own right. They just lacked the star power and/or identity to keep the ball rolling. That or in most cases, nothing else they made came close to being as good as that one song they're known for. [Edited 1/2/19 5:20am]

Good point and very true in some cases.

mnbvc said:

babynoz said:

Here we go a-fucking-gain.

No one is saying there isn't any good music out there, "sigh". The thing is that the RATIO of good music vs. brain rot is different. There used to be a thing called a "one hit wonder", which is where most of the brain rot could be found back in the day. Not many brain rot type artists lasted very long and weren't shoved down people's throats like they are in the era of social media.

A Cardi or Tekashi would have had to compete with authentic artists on a more level field and would have been blown out of the water. Now the hype machine favors fake artists who are much cheaper to produce much like reality shows are cheaper to produce than TV shows with professional actors. We live in a fake era where even the head of state is a reality show star....wtf do you expect?

As I keep saying until I am blue in the face, the public are the only ones who can stop the race to the bottom. The suits will keep feeding us shit as long as they can get away with it.

I understand that each generation has its own soundtrack but I gotta say, more and more young people are trying to find real artists again. The tide is turning back toward genuine creatives with real talent and against fake media personalities like Jarquees. The thing that I wish the younglings would do is make their own damn music. If modern music is sooo great why is there still such widespread blatant biting from our generation? That goes for endless movie and tv remakes as well as music.

There are original young artists out there who don't get any recognition.

Luke James

Ro James

BJ the Chicago Kid

Jacob Banks

The Internet

Just to name a few.

Prince was already an international superstar and a legend with an army of fans by the time he went to war with the industry but these young emerging artists don't have that kind of leverage. All they have is us so I suggest you get busy if you're sick of the brain rot.

Yeah, well around the time ...Baby One More Time came out, which many feel started the 'overcommercialization of music, hip hop was simulatneously just as commercial.

Who's to blame for that????

I don't understand the question.

babynoz said:

mnbvc said:

Yeah, well around the time ...Baby One More Time came out, which many feel started the 'overcommercialization of music, hip hop was simulatneously just as commercial.

Who's to blame for that????

I don't understand the question.

What?

I could barely get through the first 3 minutes of the video with its Beatles fetishizing, modern music bashing and ridiculous claims of objectivity. Blech.

Truth: modern music ain't awful:

Evidence #2

A bittersweet love letter to the nineties
and I'm outta here.

Great exhibits! I knew we could turn the negative thread upside down.

It all boils down to a honest commitment to the craft.
Becoming a good musician is hard work and dedication, and Our Man is testament to that.
Physical AND spiritual commitment.

But it also takes life experiences worth telling.
With all continents living the same Amerikkkan Dream, where is the original sparkle?
Where's the interesting storytelling? Is there any left, or just a lament on how good things were yesterday?
How can a kid become a Punk or a Rude Boy, a genuine one?

Everything has become too squeaky clean. Where's the grease, the rust, the sweat?
Where's the intoxicating smelly funk and cheap perfume that promises a Beautiful Night?

What a bunch of sad morons we let them turn ourselves into.
They fooled us, and bassist has become an alternative to barista. Not a sacred mission for the 2 and 4.

Vive la Résistance, but Lawd knows it's not easy to feel like the lone torch carrier.
I certainly feel less alone with exhibitionists around me.

Going "Crazy", yes, the only viable alternative to bear the alienated existence,
but that was ten years (haard labour) ago. We're dog tired, ain't we.