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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > MJ: The Bad Outtake vs. the album cut
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Reply #30 posted 09/12/18 3:32pm

MickyDolenz

ReddBlitz said:

GET IT

I have the maxi single for this.

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #31 posted 09/12/18 7:26pm

TrivialPursuit

RODSERLING said:

TrivialPursuit said:


And where is the evidence of that?

Brad Sundberg and Bruce Swedien said it in conferences. It was also discussed in Gearslutz by his various engineer when Michael died. . Proof? Search the internet. Or...You just have to listen?


I don't doubt it necessarily, I'm just wondering why they'd do that at all.

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Reply #32 posted 09/12/18 7:36pm

ThePanther

avatar

'Another Part of Me' is a lot better, in my opinion. Also I think it was good for Michael to have a real funky kind of cut on there, at that time.

I've always enjoyed 'Just Good Friends'. I think it's great! If I were to dump a track on Bad, it would certainly be 'Speed Demon'.

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Reply #33 posted 09/12/18 11:21pm

ReddBlitz

RODSERLING said:

ReddBlitz said:



GET IT wasn't much to toot at but it is a lot better than GOOD FRIENDS.

Also, how are you to ignore YOU SHOULD KNOW. My fav song off the CHARACTERS album:lol:
[Edited 9/12/18 3:11am]
[Edited 9/12/18 3:14am]


That s You Will Know. Such à mémorable song, you Can t even recall its name.
.
I like it too, but that doesn t mean it s good. It s embarassing, and not from the level of its following albums. I mean, nobody told Stevie back in 1987 that his album was pure garbage? Was hé forced to release it?


lol Oh, the tragedy!! Hey, I made a mistake with the song's title. And?! I'm not perfect. I'm human!! YOU WILL KNOW was a great memorable song to me. It was one of Wonder's better single releases of the '80s in my opinion! As for the CHARACTERS album, it had its moments. It wasn't Wonder's best but hey, it's common for such artists of his stature to hit a dry spell in creativity. Wonder has been consistently turning out hit after hit, album after album, for over 20 years at the point. Also, the music industry was drastically changing. Everything from record labels to media formats to even how music was created and recorded, were all taking on an entirely new life of its own. At this stage of the game in one's career, especially in particular with Wonder, he was just one of the many older artists who was only keeping up with the times!
[Edited 9/12/18 23:22pm]
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Reply #34 posted 09/13/18 1:26am

RODSERLING

TrivialPursuit said:



RODSERLING said:


TrivialPursuit said:



And where is the evidence of that?



Brad Sundberg and Bruce Swedien said it in conferences. It was also discussed in Gearslutz by his various engineer when Michael died. . Proof? Search the internet. Or...You just have to listen?


I don't doubt it necessarily, I'm just wondering why they'd do that at all.



1) to give the songs à more punchy Vibe
2) to gain time in the total lenght
3) it was a common Practice for commercial singles.

It also means that MJ never reached some notes on thèse songs.
.

On Triumph, Wondering Who was sped up too. Nick, à french DJ released à "remix" recently on YouTube, that is in fact the track at the good speed.
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Reply #35 posted 09/13/18 10:27am

TrivialPursuit

RODSERLING said:

On Triumph, Wondering Who was sped up too. Nick, à french DJ released à "remix" recently on YouTube, that is in fact the track at the good speed.


I feel like I've heard that. I think it was posted here on the Org (was it you?).

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
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Reply #36 posted 09/13/18 10:32am

Derek1984

avatar

Need to hear more outtakes from BAD. Still missing Buffalo Bill, Tomboy, Chicago 1945, What You Do To Me, Make or Break, Alright Now, etc.

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Reply #37 posted 09/13/18 10:55am

CoolMF

bboy87 said:

Toofunkyinhere said:

DarkHorse77 said: What are the out takes for the dangerous album?

Someone Put Your Hand Out

Work That Body

She Got It

Serious Effect

For All Time

Monkey Business

Superfly Sister

Blood on The Dance Floor

those are the ones that have either leaked or were released later

I always heard that Blackstreet's "Joy" was a Dangerous outtake. Any truth to that?

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Reply #38 posted 09/13/18 10:56am

CoolMF

TrivialPursuit said:

I just watched the video for "Another Part of Me" (with Sheryl Crow on backing vocals, which is still such a trip). Anyhoo - it's still not a favorite song. I think most MJ fans know the story of Quincy, Frank, & MJ playing the two songs and Frank shaking his fat ass to "Another Part of Me", giving it the extra boost it needed to get on the record.

However, I happen to be a much bigger fan of "Streetwalker" (which was in Moonwalker and would end up later on the 2001 release of Bad as an outtake bonus track).

So the vote is this: which do you prefer? "Another Part of Me" or "Streetwalker"?

PS I think they could have ditched "Just Good Friends" & replaced it with "Streetwalker" & it been a 25% better record for that alone. Let APOM be a b-side or solely for Captain EO.

.

.

.

.

[Edited 9/1/18 18:17pm]

No, I don't know the story nor do I know who "Frank" is. Can you give a quick summary?

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Reply #39 posted 09/13/18 1:46pm

bigd74

avatar

CoolMF said:

TrivialPursuit said:

I just watched the video for "Another Part of Me" (with Sheryl Crow on backing vocals, which is still such a trip). Anyhoo - it's still not a favorite song. I think most MJ fans know the story of Quincy, Frank, & MJ playing the two songs and Frank shaking his fat ass to "Another Part of Me", giving it the extra boost it needed to get on the record.

However, I happen to be a much bigger fan of "Streetwalker" (which was in Moonwalker and would end up later on the 2001 release of Bad as an outtake bonus track).

So the vote is this: which do you prefer? "Another Part of Me" or "Streetwalker"?

PS I think they could have ditched "Just Good Friends" & replaced it with "Streetwalker" & it been a 25% better record for that alone. Let APOM be a b-side or solely for Captain EO.

.

.

.

.

[Edited 9/1/18 18:17pm]

No, I don't know the story nor do I know who "Frank" is. Can you give a quick summary?

It's on the interview with Quincy on the 2001 re issue, track selecting tracks MJ liked APOM and Q liked Streetwalker but Frank (Dileo,MJ's manager) preferred APOM which swayed MJ

She Believed in Fairytales and Princes, He Believed the voices coming from his stereo

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Reply #40 posted 09/13/18 2:34pm

bboy87

avatar

RODSERLING said:

TrivialPursuit said:


I don't doubt it necessarily, I'm just wondering why they'd do that at all.

1) to give the songs à more punchy Vibe 2) to gain time in the total lenght 3) it was a common Practice for commercial singles. It also means that MJ never reached some notes on thèse songs. . On Triumph, Wondering Who was sped up too. Nick, à french DJ released à "remix" recently on YouTube, that is in fact the track at the good speed.

Nick*?

He's not French, he's from Chicago lol

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #41 posted 09/13/18 2:35pm

bboy87

avatar

CoolMF said:

bboy87 said:

Someone Put Your Hand Out

Work That Body

She Got It

Serious Effect

For All Time

Monkey Business

Superfly Sister

Blood on The Dance Floor

those are the ones that have either leaked or were released later

I always heard that Blackstreet's "Joy" was a Dangerous outtake. Any truth to that?

Yep. Teddy said he handed over the tape of it to Michael's estate some years ago. Hopefully it'll see the light of day

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #42 posted 09/13/18 2:38pm

bboy87

avatar

TrivialPursuit said:

RODSERLING said:

TrivialPursuit said: Brad Sundberg and Bruce Swedien said it in conferences. It was also discussed in Gearslutz by his various engineer when Michael died. . Proof? Search the internet. Or...You just have to listen?


I don't doubt it necessarily, I'm just wondering why they'd do that at all.

Brad Sundberg does a really great seminar where he tells stories of how the albums were made, Michael as a person and plays videos and unreleased songs.

http://inthestudiowithmj.com

He played this demo of Someone Put Your Hand Out (from 1986-1987)

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #43 posted 09/13/18 2:41pm

TrivialPursuit

CoolMF said:

No, I don't know the story nor do I know who "Frank" is. Can you give a quick summary?


Frank DiLeo, his manager at the time. The Joe Pesci character in the "Smooth Criminal" sequence of Moonwalker was named Frankie Lideo. DiLeo played Tuddy in Goodfellas, too. He managed MJ until 1989 (and was even part of the Victory Tour and many other projects, videos, and deals). MJ accused him of tampering with money & broke off with him in 1989. He did work with him again in 2009 for This is It. He died in 2011. He was pretty legendary (good or bad) in the music business.
He worked with Prince, too.

Find the extra tracks on the 2001 issue of BAD. Quincy talks about how Frank was shaking his fat ass to "Another Part Of Me". It's a funny story.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
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Reply #44 posted 09/13/18 4:17pm

Superstition

avatar

RODSERLING said:

ReddBlitz said:
GET IT wasn't much to toot at but it is a lot better than GOOD FRIENDS. Also, how are you to ignore YOU SHOULD KNOW. My fav song off the CHARACTERS album:lol: [Edited 9/12/18 3:11am] [Edited 9/12/18 3:14am]
That s You Will Know. Such à mémorable song, you Can t even recall its name. . I like it too, but that doesn t mean it s good. It s embarassing, and not from the level of its following albums. I mean, nobody told Stevie back in 1987 that his album was pure garbage? Was hé forced to release it?

I enjoy Get It, My Eyes Don't Cry, You Will Know, One Of A Kind and a few others. Crying Through The Night was written in the 70's and the demo (available on Youtube) is a lot better, some clavinet and a few others things that make it more like a Donny Hathaway song than what appeared on Characters.

Not his best album, but not unworthy of release. My Eyes Don't Cry is a midwest classic, and you should hear him perform it on the talkbox, too funky.

On Topic - I prefer Another Part Of Me, though Streetwalker is pretty damn good as well. However, I sort of agree that it seems similar to The Way You Make Me Feel, which is what I think Quincy said was the issue. At any rate, its worthy of being heard, and I was glad to get the full version on the 2001 SE of Bad. Interesting how its bass-line morphed into Dangerous, which was originally much weaker in demo form than the version that appeared on Dangerous with Teddy Riley's production. That is a classic banger IMO.

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Reply #45 posted 09/13/18 11:16pm

bboy87

avatar

Superstition said:

RODSERLING said:

ReddBlitz said: That s You Will Know. Such à mémorable song, you Can t even recall its name. . I like it too, but that doesn t mean it s good. It s embarassing, and not from the level of its following albums. I mean, nobody told Stevie back in 1987 that his album was pure garbage? Was hé forced to release it?

I enjoy Get It, My Eyes Don't Cry, You Will Know, One Of A Kind and a few others. Crying Through The Night was written in the 70's and the demo (available on Youtube) is a lot better, some clavinet and a few others things that make it more like a Donny Hathaway song than what appeared on Characters.

Not his best album, but not unworthy of release. My Eyes Don't Cry is a midwest classic, and you should hear him perform it on the talkbox, too funky.

On Topic - I prefer Another Part Of Me, though Streetwalker is pretty damn good as well. However, I sort of agree that it seems similar to The Way You Make Me Feel, which is what I think Quincy said was the issue. At any rate, its worthy of being heard, and I was glad to get the full version on the 2001 SE of Bad. Interesting how its bass-line morphed into Dangerous, which was originally much weaker in demo form than the version that appeared on Dangerous with Teddy Riley's production. That is a classic banger IMO.

Someone else who likes "Characters"....

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #46 posted 09/14/18 2:56am

RODSERLING

TrivialPursuit said:



RODSERLING said:


On Triumph, Wondering Who was sped up too. Nick, à french DJ released à "remix" recently on YouTube, that is in fact the track at the good speed.


I feel like I've heard that. I think it was posted here on the Org (was it you?).



Maybe, I posted on this topic
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Reply #47 posted 09/14/18 3:00am

RODSERLING

bboy87 said:



CoolMF said:




bboy87 said:



Someone Put Your Hand Out


Work That Body


She Got It


Serious Effect


For All Time


Monkey Business


Superfly Sister


Blood on The Dance Floor



those are the ones that have either leaked or were released later




I always heard that Blackstreet's "Joy" was a Dangerous outtake. Any truth to that?



Yep. Teddy said he handed over the tape of it to Michael's estate some years ago. Hopefully it'll see the light of day



The estate stated in 2014 they already released everything that was unreleased.

Of course, this is a terrible lie, but because of the crap they released such as the Cascios songs, they are sued by all parts.
This is just à catalogue exploitation by now.
[Edited 9/14/18 3:03am]
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Reply #48 posted 09/14/18 4:10am

bboy87

avatar

RODSERLING said:

bboy87 said:

Yep. Teddy said he handed over the tape of it to Michael's estate some years ago. Hopefully it'll see the light of day

The estate stated in 2014 they already released everything that was unreleased. Of course, this is a terrible lie, but because of the crap they released such as the Cascios songs, they are sued by all parts. This is just à catalogue exploitation by now. [Edited 9/14/18 3:03am]

Yep, a HUGE lie

Same way during the Las Vegas celebration, they said they can't remaster the Destiny and Triumph tours because the quality isn't viable...

but we know that's BS as well

John Barnes was on Facebook and said some of the songs he and Michael worked on during 1983-1987 just need some parts finished up and they could be released.

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #49 posted 09/14/18 5:39am

RODSERLING

bboy87 said:

RODSERLING said:

bboy87 said: The estate stated in 2014 they already released everything that was unreleased. Of course, this is a terrible lie, but because of the crap they released such as the Cascios songs, they are sued by all parts. This is just à catalogue exploitation by now. [Edited 9/14/18 3:03am]

Yep, a HUGE lie

Same way during the Las Vegas celebration, they said they can't remaster the Destiny and Triumph tours because the quality isn't viable...

but we know that's BS as well

John Barnes was on Facebook and said some of the songs he and Michael worked on during 1983-1987 just need some parts finished up and they could be released.

Yes, and Brad Buxer stated in the media he had more than 20 songs recorded with MJ in the 00's such as I AM A LOSER. He tried to reach the estate, but nobody cared; They preferred the Cascio songs that sounded more commercial.

.

In fact the estate really tried to do something with OFF THE WALL 35, but Quincy opposed a veto because he wanted more money.

.

What they released on BAD 25 was only MJ recording at home, without any Quincy input, so they were free to release it. But it sold poorly, and Quincy sued them over the remix of BAD with Pitbull lol. And he won.

.

So their current strategy is to avoid any legal issues by not releasing anything more. Which explains the remix on "SCREAM", the compilation released last year and which flopped dramatically. You would think they would use snippets from Thriller on it because it is an Halloween compilation, but they couldn't because of QUincy. So they used snippets of other songs, including IS IT SCARY, whose the original track is not even on this compilation (!)

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Reply #50 posted 09/14/18 6:25am

Derek1984

avatar

CoolMF said:

bboy87 said:

Someone Put Your Hand Out

Work That Body

She Got It

Serious Effect

For All Time

Monkey Business

Superfly Sister

Blood on The Dance Floor

those are the ones that have either leaked or were released later

I always heard that Blackstreet's "Joy" was a Dangerous outtake. Any truth to that?

Yes, true. Joy was recorded for the Dangerous album and is complete. There was a point Joy was going to be on the final tracklisting.

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Reply #51 posted 09/14/18 7:06am

RODSERLING

Derek1984 said:

CoolMF said:

I always heard that Blackstreet's "Joy" was a Dangerous outtake. Any truth to that?

Yes, true. Joy was recorded for the Dangerous album and is complete. There was a point Joy was going to be on the final tracklisting.

The solo MJ version of JOY is on Youtube.

This song, SOmeone PUt Your Hand Out and the demo of PYT, all composed by MJ, share the same melody, only rearranged differently.

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Reply #52 posted 09/14/18 10:01am

Derek1984

avatar

RODSERLING said:

Derek1984 said:

Yes, true. Joy was recorded for the Dangerous album and is complete. There was a point Joy was going to be on the final tracklisting.

The solo MJ version of JOY is on Youtube.

This song, SOmeone PUt Your Hand Out and the demo of PYT, all composed by MJ, share the same melody, only rearranged differently.

The solo MJ version of Joy is out there? I didn't think that was leaked?

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Reply #53 posted 09/14/18 11:53am

bboy87

avatar

Derek1984 said:

RODSERLING said:

The solo MJ version of JOY is on Youtube.

This song, SOmeone PUt Your Hand Out and the demo of PYT, all composed by MJ, share the same melody, only rearranged differently.

The solo MJ version of Joy is out there? I didn't think that was leaked?

Joy hasn't leaked. I think some collector has a copy but it's not circulating among fans.

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #54 posted 09/14/18 3:31pm

RODSERLING

bboy87 said:



Derek1984 said:




RODSERLING said:



The solo MJ version of JOY is on Youtube.


This song, SOmeone PUt Your Hand Out and the demo of PYT, all composed by MJ, share the same melody, only rearranged differently.




The solo MJ version of Joy is out there? I didn't think that was leaked?



Joy hasn't leaked. I think some collector has a copy but it's not circulating among fans.



Of course it has leaked. For years.
You are so lazy à guy you Can t even trust me and type it on YouTube?
Seriously ?
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Reply #55 posted 09/14/18 5:54pm

bboy87

avatar

RODSERLING said:

bboy87 said:

Joy hasn't leaked. I think some collector has a copy but it's not circulating among fans.

Of course it has leaked. For years. You are so lazy à guy you Can t even trust me and type it on YouTube? Seriously ?

I didn't insult you so please don't insult me.

It did not leak. That is Marcus Williams doing a cover over the Blackstreet instrumental. I've known about his version.

I used to help run The Michael Jackson Archives on Facebook and I'm a member of all of the forums and it's already been confirmed that clip on Youtube is Marcus

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #56 posted 09/14/18 8:54pm

purple05

RODSERLING said:

TrivialPursuit said:



RODSERLING said:


TrivialPursuit said:



And where is the evidence of that?



Brad Sundberg and Bruce Swedien said it in conferences. It was also discussed in Gearslutz by his various engineer when Michael died. . Proof? Search the internet. Or...You just have to listen?


I don't doubt it necessarily, I'm just wondering why they'd do that at all.



1) to give the songs à more punchy Vibe
2) to gain time in the total lenght
3) it was a common Practice for commercial singles.

It also means that MJ never reached some notes on thèse songs.
.

On Triumph, Wondering Who was sped up too. Nick, à french DJ released à "remix" recently on YouTube, that is in fact the track at the good speed.

Not necessarily. It doesn’t mean they changed the key. He singer higher notes on Thriller anyway.
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Reply #57 posted 09/15/18 1:13am

RODSERLING

bboy87 said:



RODSERLING said:


bboy87 said:


Joy hasn't leaked. I think some collector has a copy but it's not circulating among fans.



Of course it has leaked. For years. You are so lazy à guy you Can t even trust me and type it on YouTube? Seriously ?

I didn't insult you so please don't insult me.



It did not leak. That is Marcus Williams doing a cover over the Blackstreet instrumental. I've known about his version.



I used to help run The Michael Jackson Archives on Facebook and I'm a member of all of the forums and it's already been confirmed that clip on Youtube is Marcus



What a dushbag I am! You re right, pardon me. I was fooled by this Marcus Williams. Incredible job hé did, better than Malachi! Merci
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Reply #58 posted 09/15/18 1:21am

RODSERLING

purple05 said:

RODSERLING said:



1) to give the songs à more punchy Vibe
2) to gain time in the total lenght
3) it was a common Practice for commercial singles.

It also means that MJ never reached some notes on thèse songs.
.

On Triumph, Wondering Who was sped up too. Nick, à french DJ released à "remix" recently on YouTube, that is in fact the track at the good speed.

Not necessarily. It doesn’t mean they changed the key. He singer higher notes on Thriller anyway.



Brad Sundberg didn t work on Thriller, So hé didn t talk about this.
But I Always suspected Baby be mine to be sped up too.
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Reply #59 posted 09/15/18 9:13am

imprimis

Although this runs contrary to QJ's anecdotes, this song was most likely first recorded towards, or shortly after the period the Bad LP's configuration had already been finalized and put into production, late mid-1987, possibly with additional work during time-off from the first leg of the Bad Tour, making its status as an actual candidate for the tracklist a questionable recollection.

.

Some of its themes were incorporated into performances of 'The Way You Make Me Feel' (which it of course borrows from itself).

.

As a matter of commercial necessity, the album would not have been 'pop' enough without 'Another Part of Me', and Jackson and the studios were not going to allow the tie-in with 'Captain Eo' to lapse, which would be present at Disney parks through as late as ~1997.

.

[Edited 9/15/18 11:41am]

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