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Thread started 06/13/18 5:51pm

LittleBLUECorv
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Post 80s R&B in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame.

The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame is basically absent of post 80s R&B (not counting Hip-Hip.)
Any R&B artist post 1980s do y'all see getting in any time soon? I'm goin past the major omissions in Janet and Whitney Houston.

All of these artist are eligible for induction.

-Luther Vandross
-Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis (producer/songwriter)
-New Edition
-Babyface (artist or producer/songwriter)
-Guy
-Tony Toni Tone
-En Vogue
-Boyz II Men
-TLC
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Reply #1 posted 06/13/18 6:36pm

MickyDolenz

If they don't induct people like Barry Manilow, I don't see any of these acts getting in. razz They've just recently inducted acts like Chicago, Genesis, Paul Butterfield Blues Band, Moody Blues, Journey, & Hall & Oates, who've been around since the 1960s or 1970s. I don't see the Hall inducting New Jack Swing related acts, if they've haven't inducted Kraftwerk, who has a bigger influence on music than Guy, especially dance & electronic music. Kraftwerk also influenced some early hip hop & 1980s electrofunk. Don't really see Midnight Star's Freak A Zoid happening without Kraftwerk, same with Depeche Mode. The one I see that has the best chance is Jam & Lewis. Maybe Babyface as a producer, not as a performer. I'd think they'd induct Toto, Jay Graydon, or David Foster before Babyface and they're not in, so Babyface has little chance. Members of Toto have played on many records including Michael Jackson. They played on R&B stuff too like Got To Be Real by Cheryl Lynn.

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #2 posted 06/13/18 6:49pm

LittleBLUECorv
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MickyDolenz said:

If they don't induct people like Barry Manilow, I don't see any of these acts getting in. razz They've just recently inducted acts like Chicago, Genesis, Paul Butterfield Blues Band, Moody Blues, Journey, & Hall & Oates, who've been around since the 1960s or 1970s. I don't see the Hall inducting New Jack Swing related acts, if they've haven't inducted Kraftwerk, who has a bigger influence on music than Guy, especially dance & electronic music. Kraftwerk also influenced some early hip hop & 1980s electrofunk. Don't really see Midnight Star's Freak A Zoid happening without Kraftwerk, same with Depeche Mode. The one I see that has the best chance is Jam & Lewis. Maybe Babyface as a producer, not as a performer. I'd think they'd induct Toto, Jay Graydon, or David Foster before Babyface and they're not in, so Babyface has little chance. Members of Toto have played on many records including Michael Jackson. They played on R&B stuff too like Got To Be Real by Cheryl Lynn.


If Barry Manilow goes in than the likes of Barbara Streisand, Bet Midler, Tom Jones, ect go in.

The people I listed were just 80s R&B hitmakers at the same time contemporaries like Prince, MJ, Run DMC, Tupac were on the charts.

Also thought Kraftwerk got in a few years back.
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Reply #3 posted 06/13/18 7:15pm

MickyDolenz

LittleBLUECorvette said:

If Barry Manilow goes in than the likes of Barbara Streisand, Bet Midler, Tom Jones, ect go in. The people I listed were just 80s R&B hitmakers at the same time contemporaries like Prince, MJ, Run DMC, Tupac were on the charts. Also thought Kraftwerk got in a few years back.

Nope, they just got a nomination this year or last year, but didn't make it. Likely because, there's no guitars or live drums in Kraftwerk's music, or at least not past their 1st or 2nd album. I don't think being a R&B hitmaker is a qualification if heavy metal isn't. Why would they put Tony! Toni! Toné! in if they haven't inducted Mötley Crüe & Def Leppard, who actually plays rock music and albums sold more than the Tony's, NE, Luther Vandross, or En Vogue did. Hip hop gets in because Rolling Stone pretty much praised it, especially post Run DMC and it influenced later music way more than 1980s R&B did. There isn't a huge difference in the R&B popular now and hip hop. The chart in Billboard has been titled "Hip Hop/R&B" for many years now.

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #4 posted 06/13/18 7:47pm

LittleBLUECorv
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MickyDolenz said:



LittleBLUECorvette said:


If Barry Manilow goes in than the likes of Barbara Streisand, Bet Midler, Tom Jones, ect go in. The people I listed were just 80s R&B hitmakers at the same time contemporaries like Prince, MJ, Run DMC, Tupac were on the charts. Also thought Kraftwerk got in a few years back.

Nope, they just got a nomination this year or last year, but didn't make it. Likely because, there's no guitars or live drums in Kraftwerk's music, or at least not past their 1st or 2nd album. I don't think being a R&B hitmaker is a qualification if heavy metal isn't. Why would they put Tony! Toni! Toné! in if they haven't inducted Mötley Crüe & Def Leppard, who actually plays rock music and albums sold more than the Tony's, NE, Luther Vandross, or En Vogue did. Hip hop gets in because Rolling Stone pretty much praised it, especially post Run DMC and it influenced later music way more than 1980s R&B did. There isn't a huge difference in the R&B popular now and hip hop. The chart in Billboard has been titled "Hip Hop/R&B" for many years now.


All these names (other than Guy but were the most influential here) had great success om the Pop charts also. They weren't just R&B only guys like a Kashif or Lilo Thomas.
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Reply #5 posted 06/13/18 8:32pm

MickyDolenz

LittleBLUECorvette said:

All these names (other than Guy but were the most influential here) had great success om the Pop charts also. They weren't just R&B only guys like a Kashif or Lilo Thomas.

If they were only going by that, then the Commodores and/or Lionel Richie would be in. So would:

Billy Ocean
Kool & The Gang
KC & The Sunshine Band
Whitney Houston
Janet Jackson
Jody Watley

Billy Ocean & Kool & The Gang had more pop success than New Edition did during the 80s. It was New Kids On The Block who got the huge sales. Bobby Brown's Don't Be Cruel & BBD's Poison album sold more and had more crossover success than any by New Edition. TLC is basically a female BBD.

Duran Duran had a lot of pop success during the 1980s and they haven't even been nominated, and they're still an active band. But Green Day & Pearl Jam got in on first nomination, and Duran Duran's 1st album came out a decade before them.

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #6 posted 06/14/18 7:59am

namepeace

At first blush I only see TLC getting in.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #7 posted 06/14/18 2:46pm

MickyDolenz

^^The Hall usually has at least one feuding act, and En Vogue would fill that slot. Will Dawn & Maxine show up? razz

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #8 posted 06/14/18 8:17pm

LittleBLUECorv
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MickyDolenz said:



LittleBLUECorvette said:


All these names (other than Guy but were the most influential here) had great success om the Pop charts also. They weren't just R&B only guys like a Kashif or Lilo Thomas.

If they were only going by that, then the Commodores and/or Lionel Richie would be in. So would:

Billy Ocean
Kool & The Gang
KC & The Sunshine Band
Whitney Houston
Janet Jackson
Jody Watley

Billy Ocean & Kool & The Gang had more pop success than New Edition did during the 80s. It was New Kids On The Block who got the huge sales. Bobby Brown's Don't Be Cruel & BBD's Poison album sold more and had more crossover success than any by New Edition. TLC is basically a female BBD.

Duran Duran had a lot of pop success during the 1980s and they haven't even been nominated, and they're still an active band. But Green Day & Pearl Jam got in on first nomination, and Duran Duran's 1st album came out a decade before them.


Guys like Kool, Commodores, KC and those funk bands of the 70s their peers have went in eventually I think they will get inducted.

With the names I listed, this is new to the Rock Hall. 80s R&B. Will it get a look at eventually?
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Reply #9 posted 06/14/18 8:55pm

MickyDolenz

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Guys like Kool, Commodores, KC and those funk bands of the 70s their peers have went in eventually I think they will get inducted. With the names I listed, this is new to the Rock Hall. 80s R&B. Will it get a look at eventually?

Kool & The Gang's Top 40 pop success was the 1980s, when JT Taylor was in the group. Songs like Joanna, Cherish, Fresh, Misled, Celebration, etc. Not really the jazzy instrumental stuff from the 1970s (other than maybe Jungle Boogie & Hollywood Swinging). I hear Celebration & Ladies Night a lot on the pop oldies station still today and Celebration is used in commercials, but it's not always the Kool version..

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #10 posted 06/14/18 8:58pm

LittleBLUECorv
ette

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MickyDolenz said:



LittleBLUECorvette said:


Guys like Kool, Commodores, KC and those funk bands of the 70s their peers have went in eventually I think they will get inducted. With the names I listed, this is new to the Rock Hall. 80s R&B. Will it get a look at eventually?

Kool & The Gang's Top 40 pop success was the 1980s, when JT Taylor was in the group. Songs like Joanna, Cherish, Fresh, Misled, Celebration, etc. Not really the jazzy instrumental stuff from the 1970s (other than maybe Jungle Boogie & Hollywood Swinging). I hear Celebration & Ladies Night a lot on the pop oldies station still today and Celebration is used in commercials, but it's not always the Kool version..


Most look at them as a 70s band.
PRINCE: Always and Forever
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Reply #11 posted 06/14/18 10:02pm

Graycap23

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No Mint Condition?

sad

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #12 posted 06/15/18 2:42am

LittleBLUECorv
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Graycap23 said:

No Mint Condition?


sad


Sadley no.

And I need to update list with Jodeci and R.Kelly.
PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
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Reply #13 posted 06/15/18 2:02pm

MickyDolenz

They probably don't know who Mint Condition is. I've only heard one song by them. I listened to Top 40 pop radio and I've never heard them on there. So they're likely not well known enough to mainstream listeners to draw enough of an audience to watch the HBO broadcast.

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #14 posted 06/16/18 8:34am

ReddBlitz

Personally, I can't see as to why Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis wouldn't be inducted. And why at it, those flakes ought to finally induct Janet Jackson.

Also, it'd be cool to see these artists/groups inducted...

Maze Featuring Frankie Beverly
Rick James & The Stone City Band
Roger & Zapp
SOLAR Records
SOS Band
The System
Tony Toni Tone
[Edited 6/16/18 8:35am]
[Edited 6/16/18 8:37am]
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Reply #15 posted 06/16/18 1:53pm

jjhunsecker

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Of all the acts mentioned so far, the only ones I consider worthy of induction would be Luther Vandross , and possibly Whitney Houston
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Reply #16 posted 06/17/18 6:18am

lastdecember

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LittleBLUECorvette said:

MickyDolenz said:

If they don't induct people like Barry Manilow, I don't see any of these acts getting in. razz They've just recently inducted acts like Chicago, Genesis, Paul Butterfield Blues Band, Moody Blues, Journey, & Hall & Oates, who've been around since the 1960s or 1970s. I don't see the Hall inducting New Jack Swing related acts, if they've haven't inducted Kraftwerk, who has a bigger influence on music than Guy, especially dance & electronic music. Kraftwerk also influenced some early hip hop & 1980s electrofunk. Don't really see Midnight Star's Freak A Zoid happening without Kraftwerk, same with Depeche Mode. The one I see that has the best chance is Jam & Lewis. Maybe Babyface as a producer, not as a performer. I'd think they'd induct Toto, Jay Graydon, or David Foster before Babyface and they're not in, so Babyface has little chance. Members of Toto have played on many records including Michael Jackson. They played on R&B stuff too like Got To Be Real by Cheryl Lynn.


If Barry Manilow goes in than the likes of Barbara Streisand, Bet Midler, Tom Jones, ect go in.

The people I listed were just 80s R&B hitmakers at the same time contemporaries like Prince, MJ, Run DMC, Tupac were on the charts.

Also thought Kraftwerk got in a few years back.


You will start to see many 80’s acts at least on the ballot because they are simply running out of artists. However long before anyone on that least goes in or is even a thought, the likes of mega 80’s stars like Duran Duran and Depeche Mode, Eurythmics etc...have to get in.

"We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F
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Reply #17 posted 06/17/18 1:43pm

LittleBLUECorv
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lastdecember said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:


If Barry Manilow goes in than the likes of Barbara Streisand, Bet Midler, Tom Jones, ect go in.

The people I listed were just 80s R&B hitmakers at the same time contemporaries like Prince, MJ, Run DMC, Tupac were on the charts.

Also thought Kraftwerk got in a few years back.


You will start to see many 80’s acts at least on the ballot because they are simply running out of artists. However long before anyone on that least goes in or is even a thought, the likes of mega 80’s stars like Duran Duran and Depeche Mode, Eurythmics etc...have to get in.

They are not running out.
Big names from the 50s, 60s and 70s are not even in yet. Hell, some have never been nominated.
PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
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Reply #18 posted 06/17/18 1:47pm

MickyDolenz

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #19 posted 06/17/18 2:33pm

lastdecember

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LittleBLUECorvette said:

lastdecember said:
You will start to see many 80’s acts at least on the ballot because they are simply running out of artists. However long before anyone on that least goes in or is even a thought, the likes of mega 80’s stars like Duran Duran and Depeche Mode, Eurythmics etc...have to get in.
They are not running out. Big names from the 50s, 60s and 70s are not even in yet. Hell, some have never been nominated.

They actually are running out which is why you are seeing certain ones getting IN now or at least on the ballot. The creators of this wanted to make it some kind of elite club of rock icons but reality is reality and they need people to be interested in what they are doing. People were complaining that Bon Jovi took up all that time on the show and it wasnt fair to others etc....BUT that is all about tv ratings, no one is tuning in to see the Moody Blues get in lets be real, not even the Cars, these are bands that basically dont even do anything anymore, Jovi is despite being without Sambora still one of the biggest touring bands on earth and HBO wants someone that people will tune in to see. In a few years its going to be the Dave Grohl show when the Foo Fighters get in first ballot for sure, I cant wait to see how many people get pissed when they take up an hour.


"We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F
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Reply #20 posted 06/17/18 3:06pm

LittleBLUECorv
ette

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lastdecember said:



LittleBLUECorvette said:


lastdecember said:
You will start to see many 80’s acts at least on the ballot because they are simply running out of artists. However long before anyone on that least goes in or is even a thought, the likes of mega 80’s stars like Duran Duran and Depeche Mode, Eurythmics etc...have to get in.

They are not running out. Big names from the 50s, 60s and 70s are not even in yet. Hell, some have never been nominated.


They actually are running out which is why you are seeing certain ones getting IN now or at least on the ballot. The creators of this wanted to make it some kind of elite club of rock icons but reality is reality and they need people to be interested in what they are doing. People were complaining that Bon Jovi took up all that time on the show and it wasnt fair to others etc....BUT that is all about tv ratings, no one is tuning in to see the Moody Blues get in lets be real, not even the Cars, these are bands that basically dont even do anything anymore, Jovi is despite being without Sambora still one of the biggest touring bands on earth and HBO wants someone that people will tune in to see. In a few years its going to be the Dave Grohl show when the Foo Fighters get in first ballot for sure, I cant wait to see how many people get pissed when they take up an hour.


They're not running out. The likes of Ohio Players, Barry White, Rick James, Commodores, Kool and the Gang, Johnnie Taylor, ect has never even been nominated? And the likes of Chic, Joe Tex, Rufus and Chaka Khan, Spinners continue to get snubbed after countless nominations.
And this is just the R&B and Soul acts from the 60s and 70s.
Haven't even got to the Rock side from that era. They are not running out of names.
PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
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Reply #21 posted 06/17/18 4:02pm

MickyDolenz

lastdecember said:

BUT that is all about tv ratings, no one is tuning in to see the Moody Blues get in lets be real, not even the Cars, these are bands that basically dont even do anything anymore, Jovi is despite being without Sambora still one of the biggest touring bands on earth and HBO wants someone that people will tune in to see.

They probably only need 2 or 3 of the acts to do that, the rest likely don't matter as much or they wouldn't induct the sidemen or people like Rosetta Tharpe. I think she was inducted this year because she recently got publicity on social media. She was qualified the 1st year the Hall opened. They're probably running out of acts that baby boomer rock fans who read Rolling Stone magazine are interested in seeing. They used of most of the big ones like The Beatles, Eric Clapton, & Pink Floyd. I think that's one of the reasons they're inducting hip hop acts now, because they're trying to reach the younger generations. Notice they skipped many acts that debuted in the 1980s to put in ones from the 1990s like Green Day, Tupac, & Pearl Jam. Hip hop has replaced rock in mainstream popularity. Rock & roll to the mainstream audience today is like Perry Como era crooner pop to rock fans, the music of their grandparents or great-grandparents. Straight Outta Compton is the highest grossing music biopic, more than the ones about Elvis Presley, Buddy Holly, or Ray Charles. If you look at the Top 20 on the current pop chart in Billboard, in an average week more than 10 songs are rap or has a rap feature on it. Lil Wayne & Drake have both passed up the record Elvis had for most Hot 100 entries. I think Nicki Minaj has passed up Aretha Franklin for female acts.

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #22 posted 06/18/18 1:07pm

lastdecember

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LittleBLUECorvette said:

lastdecember said:

They actually are running out which is why you are seeing certain ones getting IN now or at least on the ballot. The creators of this wanted to make it some kind of elite club of rock icons but reality is reality and they need people to be interested in what they are doing. People were complaining that Bon Jovi took up all that time on the show and it wasnt fair to others etc....BUT that is all about tv ratings, no one is tuning in to see the Moody Blues get in lets be real, not even the Cars, these are bands that basically dont even do anything anymore, Jovi is despite being without Sambora still one of the biggest touring bands on earth and HBO wants someone that people will tune in to see. In a few years its going to be the Dave Grohl show when the Foo Fighters get in first ballot for sure, I cant wait to see how many people get pissed when they take up an hour.

They're not running out. The likes of Ohio Players, Barry White, Rick James, Commodores, Kool and the Gang, Johnnie Taylor, ect has never even been nominated? And the likes of Chic, Joe Tex, Rufus and Chaka Khan, Spinners continue to get snubbed after countless nominations. And this is just the R&B and Soul acts from the 60s and 70s. Haven't even got to the Rock side from that era. They are not running out of names.

BUT as I have said before it takes a few things to get to a nominating stage. I can tell you right now that there is a Top 10 list already circulating of artists that are being pushed and NONE are ones you have mentioned sad to say. It takes the fan bases at this point to get them on ballots and in too. Bon Jovi got in because of fans, the critics and writers hate them with a passion and Jon has very little in the hall to call friends. I took 40 something years to get Chicago in, and they had the greatest ROCK guitar player ever in Terry Kath. So there still is a lot of blockage going around, I mean now the hall is looking at more of who they missed, who will people go to their museums to see and tune in to the show to see. I mean the case can also be made and I can tell you right now that two acts being lauded in front of the Hall to get on the ballot and in are Yes and Styx currently Styx is number 10 on a circulating list of groups that are overdue. But at the end of the day, its about who will tune into the show.


"We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F
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Reply #23 posted 06/18/18 4:37pm

LittleBLUECorv
ette

avatar

lastdecember said:



LittleBLUECorvette said:


lastdecember said:



They actually are running out which is why you are seeing certain ones getting IN now or at least on the ballot. The creators of this wanted to make it some kind of elite club of rock icons but reality is reality and they need people to be interested in what they are doing. People were complaining that Bon Jovi took up all that time on the show and it wasnt fair to others etc....BUT that is all about tv ratings, no one is tuning in to see the Moody Blues get in lets be real, not even the Cars, these are bands that basically dont even do anything anymore, Jovi is despite being without Sambora still one of the biggest touring bands on earth and HBO wants someone that people will tune in to see. In a few years its going to be the Dave Grohl show when the Foo Fighters get in first ballot for sure, I cant wait to see how many people get pissed when they take up an hour.



They're not running out. The likes of Ohio Players, Barry White, Rick James, Commodores, Kool and the Gang, Johnnie Taylor, ect has never even been nominated? And the likes of Chic, Joe Tex, Rufus and Chaka Khan, Spinners continue to get snubbed after countless nominations. And this is just the R&B and Soul acts from the 60s and 70s. Haven't even got to the Rock side from that era. They are not running out of names.

BUT as I have said before it takes a few things to get to a nominating stage. I can tell you right now that there is a Top 10 list already circulating of artists that are being pushed and NONE are ones you have mentioned sad to say. It takes the fan bases at this point to get them on ballots and in too. Bon Jovi got in because of fans, the critics and writers hate them with a passion and Jon has very little in the hall to call friends. I took 40 something years to get Chicago in, and they had the greatest ROCK guitar player ever in Terry Kath. So there still is a lot of blockage going around, I mean now the hall is looking at more of who they missed, who will people go to their museums to see and tune in to the show to see. I mean the case can also be made and I can tell you right now that two acts being lauded in front of the Hall to get on the ballot and in are Yes and Styx currently Styx is number 10 on a circulating list of groups that are overdue. But at the end of the day, its about who will tune into the show.


An R&B act will never get love on a fan made list on Rolling Stone mag. A lot of folks don't even think R&B belongs in the Rock Hall. Why do you think when they do those voting polls R&B artist are always dead last in the voting.
PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
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Reply #24 posted 06/18/18 5:03pm

MickyDolenz

LittleBLUECorvette said:

An R&B act will never get love on a fan made list on Rolling Stone mag. A lot of folks don't even think R&B belongs in the Rock Hall. Why do you think when they do those voting polls R&B artist are always dead last in the voting.

Older R&B acts hardly get recognized by the BET & Soul Train Awards or by many R&B listeners in the USA. If they don't notice them, why would the Rock Hall or RS readers voting? That's probably why a lot of old R&B & funk albums can be found in Japan or UK, but are out of print and in many cases have never been on CD in the US. Japan appreciates R&B more than people in the artists own country. But acts like The Beatles & Elvis Presley get extravagant reissues & box sets every so often with high quality remastering, even for mono versions of their albums, or CDs of flubbed studio takes and chatter. Enough people will buy anything by The Beatles to justify a label spending money to do this. That's not the case with En Vogue, Teddy Pendergrass, or Joe Tex. The average R&B fan is not going to buy a box set that costs $200 or more, but a Beatles or Pink Floyd fan will. R&B in general has never sold a lot in albums. There's a reason some wanted to crossover to the mainstream audience to get the bigger sales like Michael Jackson & Lionel Richie and Berry Gordy with "The Sound Of Young America".

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #25 posted 06/19/18 6:52am

LittleBLUECorv
ette

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MickyDolenz said:



LittleBLUECorvette said:


An R&B act will never get love on a fan made list on Rolling Stone mag. A lot of folks don't even think R&B belongs in the Rock Hall. Why do you think when they do those voting polls R&B artist are always dead last in the voting.

Older R&B acts hardly get recognized by the BET & Soul Train Awards or by many R&B listeners in the USA. If they don't notice them, why would the Rock Hall or RS readers voting? That's probably why a lot of old R&B & funk albums can be found in Japan or UK, but are out of print and in many cases have never been on CD in the US. Japan appreciates R&B more than people in the artists own country. But acts like The Beatles & Elvis Presley get extravagant reissues & box sets every so often with high quality remastering, even for mono versions of their albums, or CDs of flubbed studio takes and chatter. Enough people will buy anything by The Beatles to justify a label spending money to do this. That's not the case with En Vogue, Teddy Pendergrass, or Joe Tex. The average R&B fan is not going to buy a box set that costs $200 or more, but a Beatles or Pink Floyd fan will. R&B in general has never sold a lot in albums. There's a reason some wanted to crossover to the mainstream audience to get the bigger sales like Michael Jackson & Lionel Richie and Berry Gordy with "The Sound Of Young America".


White artist don't have to cross over to sell millions of records.
PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
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Live Your Life How U Wanna Live It
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Reply #26 posted 06/19/18 11:33am

MickyDolenz

LittleBLUECorvette said:

White artist don't have to cross over to sell millions of records.

That's not really the point. It's that the R&B acts who crossed over are the ones who are more likely to be known by the voters of the Hall, particularly ones of the founders generation. Notice that there's several Motown acts inducted who crossed over like The Temptations, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, The Supremes, Smokey Robinson, and Gladys Knight & The Pips. Whites are more likely to support their veteran acts than black people in the US are. The Rolling Stones, U2, and even Ringo Starr can have high grossing tours decades after they had a hit record. The average R&B veteran act get on Tom Joyner/Sinbad ship cruises. Tony Bennett & Johnny Mathis can release albums in their 80s, but rap has an age limit. Blues & jazz partly survived because white audiences supported it, long after black people in general abandoned them. If you look at a latter day audience at a B.B. King show, it's usually primarily white. That's why rock n roll is considered white music now, by many blacks, when that's not where it originated. People tend to buy their own race/ethnicity before another.

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #27 posted 06/19/18 12:36pm

thesoulbrother

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Wishful thinking. The RRHOF is a joke. Donna Summer had been on the ballots for years and didn't get in until after she passed away. Even Hall & Oates knew it was some bullshit when they were like "How did we get in before Chubby Checker?" I'm still scratching my head at the fact that Salt N Pepa are not in the Hall yet and they were just as influential as the guys that got in. It's a popularity contest. Lenny Kravitz has been around for damn near 30 years and he's not nominated... but Green Day is in the Hall. Hmmm...

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Reply #28 posted 06/19/18 12:48pm

thesoulbrother

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MickyDolenz said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

White artist don't have to cross over to sell millions of records.

That's not really the point. It's that the R&B acts who crossed over are the ones who are more likely to be known by the voters of the Hall, particularly ones of the founders generation. Notice that there's several Motown acts inducted who crossed over like The Temptations, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, The Supremes, Smokey Robinson, and Gladys Knight & The Pips. Whites are more likely to support their veteran acts than black people in the US are. The Rolling Stones, U2, and even Ringo Starr can have high grossing tours decades after they had a hit record. The average R&B veteran act get on Tom Joyner/Sinbad ship cruises. Tony Bennett & Johnny Mathis can release albums in their 80s, but rap has an age limit. Blues & jazz partly survived because white audiences supported it, long after black people in general abandoned them. If you look at a latter day audience at a B.B. King show, it's usually primarily white. That's why rock n roll is considered white music now, by many blacks, when that's not where it originated. People tend to buy their own race/ethnicity before another.

I disagree. Go see a Maze show these days. Frankie Beverly can't even sing but all he has to do is get onstage and over 10,000 black folks are singing "Joy and Pain" for 20 minutes. Even at some of these legends shows like Ohio Players, Zapp, and the Manhattans where it's only one original member of the band, they got an arena having a good time and enjoying themselves. And hip-hop? Ain't no age limit to hip-hop. First of all, the culture has only been around in it's commercial form since 1979. Everytime I go see Rakim, De La, Sugar Hill Gang, or any of those old school acts, the place is packed to the brim. We do support our own. Hell, half of New Edition is going on tour but I bet that arena will be packed with folks singing "Mr Telephone Man!" You mention the Temptations. Well, truth be told ain't nobody coming to see Otis but they still draw a crowd. And truth be told, I don't think it's about high grossing tours when it comes to black artists unless it's Jay and Bey. Me personally, I just wanna enjoy the damn show. It can be in Pookie's backyard for all I care. If Rakim and Chuck D is still onstage rapping at 65, my ass will be right there with them!

[Edited 6/19/18 12:49pm]

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Reply #29 posted 06/19/18 1:17pm

MickyDolenz

^^Does a Maze tour make the same amount of money as the Stones, Paul McCartney or Bon Jovi today? Do they have Monopoly games, video games, dolls, Lego, clothes, etc like The Beatles or a KISS Kasket? Does Maze tour by themselves or on package shows. How many early rappers release new music at all? When was the last time Maze had a new record? Charlie Wilson still actively releases new stuff and has airplay on adult R&B stations for his new music, but he's an exception. The Isleys reached younger audiences awhile back with "Mr Biggs".

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Post 80s R&B in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame.