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Thread started 05/25/18 8:27am

MotownSubdivis
ion

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How is Rick James not in the RRHOF?

I know it's a commonly asked question as there are many deserving inductees who after years still aren't in, some having not even been nominated and this one is no different...

How is Rick James, who by all accounts was a rock star from the music he made to his fashion to his lifestyle, not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Has he even been nominated at all?
[Edited 5/25/18 11:29am]
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Reply #1 posted 05/25/18 10:17am

rdhull

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Gonna be hard. They have issues with black men with sex offenses etc compared to white dudes (Jimmy Page, Jerry Lee Lewis, Bowie, Elvis etc) with them.

And everytime I scratch my nails down someone else's back I hope you feel it.. WELL CAN YA FEEL IT?!
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Reply #2 posted 05/25/18 11:09am

RJOrion

damn...i assumed he was...he is to me...
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Reply #3 posted 05/25/18 11:33am

MotownSubdivis
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rdhull said:

Gonna be hard. They have issues with black men with sex offenses etc compared to white dudes (Jimmy Page, Jerry Lee Lewis, Bowie, Elvis etc) with them.

Typical...
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Reply #4 posted 05/25/18 11:49am

paisleypark4

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He def changed the game for r&b for a good 5 year span that COULD be the reason why... he didnt have much longevity when you think about it however he had HITS and was a super producer writing several #1s. People still talk about him to this day. He's a legend weather he is there or not

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Reply #5 posted 05/25/18 12:13pm

MickyDolenz

paisleypark4 said:

People still talk about him to this day.

But do they know him for his music or because of the "My name is Rick" comedy skit? Rick didn't have much crossover success other than Superfreak. Some pop listeners didn't even know U Can't Touch This came from that at first. Hammer's song had way more success than the orginal song did and his album sold more than any by Rick. Rick didn't hit like Lionel Richie did, who was also on Motown. Rick was more known to the R&B audience. A lot of the R&B based acts already in had a lot of crossover hits or popularity like The Temptations, Supremes, & Jackson 5/Michael Jackson. Though I still have no idea how Percy Sledge was inducted, maybe it was who Jann Wenner wanted. razz Johnnie Taylor had more pop success than Percy and JT had way more R&B hits. That is also the case of the hip hop acts inducted except maybe Grandmaster Flash. But they're the only really early rap act inducted, not Kurtis Blow or somebody.

For 75 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #6 posted 05/25/18 12:32pm

namepeace

paisleypark4 said:

He def changed the game for r&b for a good 5 year span that COULD be the reason why... he didnt have much longevity when you think about it however he had HITS and was a super producer writing several #1s. People still talk about him to this day. He's a legend weather he is there or not

pp4 is on point here. He helped carry Motown into the 80s. Like Prince, he could play a variety of styles. He produced great hits for other artists. There are a lot of acts in the Hall who've done as much, or less.

I've said it before, but perhaps, in the eyes of the voters (especially lay voters) Rick's enduring legacy is the Chappelle Show skit. There's an entire generation of people who know him only by the catchphrase. It's hard enough for R&B/funk acts to make it in.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #7 posted 05/25/18 12:46pm

luv4u

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Reply #8 posted 05/25/18 2:15pm

rdhull

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MickyDolenz said:

paisleypark4 said:

People still talk about him to this day.

But do they know him for his music or because of the "My name is Rick" comedy skit?

Who cares what one group of idiots only know him for, those others know his worth and contributions to rock n roll etc.

And everytime I scratch my nails down someone else's back I hope you feel it.. WELL CAN YA FEEL IT?!
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Reply #9 posted 05/25/18 3:16pm

MickyDolenz

I think a lot of the general public doesn't realize that the founders of Rolling Stone magazine is behind the Hall and it's a private organization. They can induct anybody they want to or not. Ringo Starr got in as a solo act partly because Paul McCartney lobbied for him. The other 3 Beatles had already been inducted for their solo careers in addition to the band itself being inducted. Notice none of the Rolling Stones have been inducted as a solo act, because they didn't really have commercially successful solo careers. Ringo did have several Top 40 hits early in his career, more than Mick Jagger has. It's like if Right On! magazine started a museum, it's very likely New Edition would be in it or if People magazine had one, they'd probably induct Barbra Striesand, Cher, & Celine Deon. Really the original idea of rock n roll was rebellion and being inducted into a museum is not that. lol It's kind of like if you've read Rolling Stone, you can guess who is more likely to be inducted or not.

For 75 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #10 posted 05/25/18 3:24pm

rdhull

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MickyDolenz said:

I think a lot of the general public doesn't realize that the founders of Rolling Stone magazine is behind the Hall and it's a private organization. They can induct anybody they want to or not. Ringo Starr got in as a solo act partly because Paul McCartney lobbied for him. The other 3 Beatles had already been inducted for their solo careers in addition to the band itself being inducted. Notice none of the Rolling Stones have been inducted as a solo act, because they didn't really have commercially successful solo careers. Ringo did have several Top 40 hits early in his career, more than Mick Jagger has. It's like if Right On! magazine started a museum, it's very likely New Edition would be in it or if People magazine had one, they'd probably induct Barbra Striesand, Cher, & Celine Deon. Really the original idea of rock n roll was rebellion and being inducted into a museum is not that. lol It's kind of like if you've read Rolling Stone, you can guess who is more likely to be inducted or not.

Yes, correct on many parts but the induction committee has been expanded and Wenner etc. isnt such a major factor anymore as he was previusly. Thats how Bon Jovi (ugh) got in this year. Rick may actually have a better chance these days what with Questlove lobbying hard for him.

And everytime I scratch my nails down someone else's back I hope you feel it.. WELL CAN YA FEEL IT?!
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Reply #11 posted 05/26/18 8:04am

MotownSubdivis
ion

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rdhull said:



MickyDolenz said:


I think a lot of the general public doesn't realize that the founders of Rolling Stone magazine is behind the Hall and it's a private organization. They can induct anybody they want to or not. Ringo Starr got in as a solo act partly because Paul McCartney lobbied for him. The other 3 Beatles had already been inducted for their solo careers in addition to the band itself being inducted. Notice none of the Rolling Stones have been inducted as a solo act, because they didn't really have commercially successful solo careers. Ringo did have several Top 40 hits early in his career, more than Mick Jagger has. It's like if Right On! magazine started a museum, it's very likely New Edition would be in it or if People magazine had one, they'd probably induct Barbra Striesand, Cher, & Celine Deon. Really the original idea of rock n roll was rebellion and being inducted into a museum is not that. lol It's kind of like if you've read Rolling Stone, you can guess who is more likely to be inducted or not.



Yes, correct on many parts but the induction committee has been expanded and Wenner etc. isnt such a major factor anymore as he was previusly. Thats how Bon Jovi (ugh) got in this year. Rick may actually have a better chance these days what with Questlove lobbying hard for him.

I hope so, I just don't get how someone who was as close to a rockstar as a black artist got at the time isn't in the Hall. Prince is in (as he should be) so there's no reason Rick shouldn't have been indiucted by now considering that he was Prince before Prince himself.

It's a damn shame his legacy hangs on to that Chappelle Show skit but the people behind the Hall should know better than to allow something like that to withhold a more than deserving artist entry. Especially when said artist embodied everything "rock", both good and bad.
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Reply #12 posted 05/26/18 11:18am

jaawwnn

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We should be proud that Rick is still too cool for that hoary old institution.

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Reply #13 posted 05/27/18 5:57pm

MickyDolenz

namepeace said:

It's hard enough for R&B/funk acts to make it in.

The Hall tends to ignore actual rock related music like heavy metal and prog rock. I don't expect the Hall to notice funk when as a genre it has never really had mainstream popularity. When funk did have some crossover hits in the late 1970s, it was called disco and to rock fans "disco sucks" and they had the riot at the baseball game. But James funk music influenced many genres, more than Chuck Berry or Elvis did. But the rock press tended to go for guitar guys like Eddie Van Halen & Eric Clapton. Whenever I see a list of best guitar players it's fast rock playing like Yngwie Malmsteen, never really George Benson, Roy Clark, or Jose Feliciano. It might be because funk didn't really have a white hero act that made it huge like the Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton, CCR, Elvis Presley, & Eminem that the white rock press wrote about and white people bought a lot of. John Fogerty of CCR sang like he came from the Louisiana swamps but was from California. Average White Band, Rare Earth, & Chicago didn't get the same praise as The Who. Rock fans considered the Bee Gees to be making music that was played everywhere they didn't like and caused some of the AOR stations to change their format to a disco playlist. Some fans of the early Fleetwood Mac considered the Buckingham/Nicks era lineup to be sellouts. Notice the Peter Green era was more blues and the Rumours era less so. Same with Santana & Supernatural. I saw a show with Hall & Oates once and Daryl Hall said that white radio stations asked him in their early days why they were doing R&B/soul based music. The rock radio programmers didn't understand why they weren't doing the blues based music that they considered cool. That's one of the reasons Jann Wenner didn't really like progressive rock because there was more European classical influence and less black blues influence. Soul music wasn't really about guitar solos like blues tended to be, so there was no guitar guy to write about or to debate who's better by guitarist fans.

For 75 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #14 posted 05/27/18 8:42pm

Goddess4Real

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jaawwnn said:

We should be proud that Rick is still too cool for that hoary old institution.

yeahthat

Keep Calm & Listen To Prince
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Reply #15 posted 05/28/18 3:08am

robertgeorge

I like to pretend everytime they put him in he is always Bustin Out (on the funk)

To be honest I always thought Rick James was the Rodney Dangerfield of Funk, who never got any respect despite, talent, star power (charisma), ability to play live, write hit songs and from evidence of the Eddie Murphy song - Party all the time (actually that video and Dave Chapelle sketches may have stopped him getting in the hall, even though they actually add to his legend).

He deserves to be in there, and his family do not deserve to keep waiting.

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Reply #16 posted 05/28/18 8:09am

TD3

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MickyDolenz said:

namepeace said:

It's hard enough for R&B/funk acts to make it in.

The Hall tends to ignore actual rock related music like heavy metal and prog rock. I don't expect the Hall to notice funk when as a genre it has never really had mainstream popularity. When funk did have some crossover hits in the late 1970s, it was called disco and to rock fans "disco sucks" and they had the riot at the baseball game. But James funk music influenced many genres, more than Chuck Berry or Elvis did. But the rock press tended to go for guitar guys like Eddie Van Halen & Eric Clapton. Whenever I see a list of best guitar players it's fast rock playing like Yngwie Malmsteen, never really George Benson, Roy Clark, or Jose Feliciano. It might be because funk didn't really have a white hero act that made it huge like the Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton, CCR, Elvis Presley, & Eminem that the white rock press wrote about and white people bought a lot of. John Fogerty of CCR sang like he came from the Louisiana swamps but was from California. Average White Band, Rare Earth, & Chicago didn't get the same praise as The Who. Rock fans considered the Bee Gees to be making music that was played everywhere they didn't like and caused some of the AOR stations to change their format to a disco playlist. Some fans of the early Fleetwood Mac considered the Buckingham/Nicks era lineup to be sellouts. Notice the Peter Green era was more blues and the Rumours era less so. Same with Santana & Supernatural. I saw a show with Hall & Oates once and Daryl Hall said that white radio stations asked him in their early days why they were doing R&B/soul based music. The rock radio programmers didn't understand why they weren't doing the blues based music that they considered cool. That's one of the reasons Jann Wenner didn't really like progressive rock because there was more European classical influence and less black blues influence. Soul music wasn't really about guitar solos like blues tended to be, so there was no guitar guy to write about or to debate who's better by guitarist fans.



That's why I've always argued like the Grammys and the Hall are a fucking joke. Don't get me started on Rolling Stone Magazine writers who don't know shit about music; if its not of the top 40 hit variety, those folks are clueless.

RRHOF is the opposite of music of what the music stood for any way, change, resistance, and rebellion. Now you have a bunch of turds picking and choosing who "deserved" in this cliquish, establishment, type guild. Fuckum' all... anybody who's not choosen to be in that shit should consider it an honor. I'm waiting for an artisty/musician/singer to say FUCK YOU, no I don't wanna be in your hall. lol

=============================




[Edited 5/28/18 12:55pm]

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Reply #17 posted 05/28/18 9:13am

rdhull

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Rockists
And everytime I scratch my nails down someone else's back I hope you feel it.. WELL CAN YA FEEL IT?!
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Reply #18 posted 05/28/18 9:15am

ThatWhiteDude

That explaines everything. hrmph

MickyDolenz said:

I think a lot of the general public doesn't realize that the founders of Rolling Stone magazine is behind the Hall and it's a private organization. They can induct anybody they want to or not. Ringo Starr got in as a solo act partly because Paul McCartney lobbied for him. The other 3 Beatles had already been inducted for their solo careers in addition to the band itself being inducted. Notice none of the Rolling Stones have been inducted as a solo act, because they didn't really have commercially successful solo careers. Ringo did have several Top 40 hits early in his career, more than Mick Jagger has. It's like if Right On! magazine started a museum, it's very likely New Edition would be in it or if People magazine had one, they'd probably induct Barbra Striesand, Cher, & Celine Deon. Really the original idea of rock n roll was rebellion and being inducted into a museum is not that. lol It's kind of like if you've read Rolling Stone, you can guess who is more likely to be inducted or not.

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
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Reply #19 posted 05/28/18 10:38am

MotownSubdivis
ion

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jaawwnn said:

We should be proud that Rick is still too cool for that hoary old institution.

That's one way to look at it too. I always thought that Rick being in the Hall may actually allow a little room for people to see past the meme of "I'm Rick James, bitch!" and acknowledge his contributions to music beyond "Super Freak".

It's not even just him for whatever foolish reason, not being in the Hall but just how Rick never got the credit he deserves for his artistry. Look at all of the acclaim and praise Prince has been showered with over the years and especially in death. Some of that very praise is due to Rick as well.
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Reply #20 posted 05/28/18 11:47am

MickyDolenz

MotownSubdivision said:

Look at all of the acclaim and praise Prince has been showered with over the years and especially in death. Some of that very praise is due to Rick as well.

Prince crossed over as an act and Rick is basically a "1 hit wonder" on the pop side. Rick was never mainstream and didn't get the pop Top 40 airplay like Michael Jackson & Prince did. Expecting Rick James to get recognition from the mainstream is like them putting Teddy Pendergrass over Lionel Richie & Billy Ocean. Lionel & Billy were crossover stars, Teddy not so much. Jody Watley had pop success & Howard Hewett didn't. Some acts are just more popular with the R&B audience. Also Rick released little music past the 1980s. Sade released more albums than him after the 80s, and they release albums every 10 years lol His later 80s albums didn't get the same amount of airplay his earlier records did, at least on the local radio stations.

For 75 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #21 posted 05/29/18 5:31pm

woogiebear

It's SIMPLE: If Jann 'Weiner" don't like U, U ain't gettin' in!!! Such is the case of Grand Funk Railroad, who not only sold out Shea Stadium TWICE AS FAST as The Beatles, but ALSO scared the Bloody sh*t outta Led Zeppelin, getting kicked off the Tour in the process!!! Not 2 mention Their 1st 4 or 5 Albums are Funk-N-Roll MASTERPIECES!!!

cool

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Reply #22 posted 05/30/18 7:53am

namepeace

MickyDolenz said:

namepeace said:

It's hard enough for R&B/funk acts to make it in.

The Hall tends to ignore actual rock related music like heavy metal and prog rock. I don't expect the Hall to notice funk when as a genre it has never really had mainstream popularity. When funk did have some crossover hits in the late 1970s, it was called disco and to rock fans "disco sucks" and they had the riot at the baseball game. But James funk music influenced many genres, more than Chuck Berry or Elvis did. But the rock press tended to go for guitar guys like Eddie Van Halen & Eric Clapton. Whenever I see a list of best guitar players it's fast rock playing like Yngwie Malmsteen, never really George Benson, Roy Clark, or Jose Feliciano. It might be because funk didn't really have a white hero act that made it huge like the Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton, CCR, Elvis Presley, & Eminem that the white rock press wrote about and white people bought a lot of. John Fogerty of CCR sang like he came from the Louisiana swamps but was from California. Average White Band, Rare Earth, & Chicago didn't get the same praise as The Who. Rock fans considered the Bee Gees to be making music that was played everywhere they didn't like and caused some of the AOR stations to change their format to a disco playlist. Some fans of the early Fleetwood Mac considered the Buckingham/Nicks era lineup to be sellouts. Notice the Peter Green era was more blues and the Rumours era less so. Same with Santana & Supernatural. I saw a show with Hall & Oates once and Daryl Hall said that white radio stations asked him in their early days why they were doing R&B/soul based music. The rock radio programmers didn't understand why they weren't doing the blues based music that they considered cool. That's one of the reasons Jann Wenner didn't really like progressive rock because there was more European classical influence and less black blues influence. Soul music wasn't really about guitar solos like blues tended to be, so there was no guitar guy to write about or to debate who's better by guitarist fans.


True.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #23 posted 06/03/18 1:43pm

Tontoman22

sad

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Reply #24 posted 06/03/18 9:45pm

Graycap23

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Good question.....yet Madonna is.
Yes....I'm in a Cult. We brainwash people into THINKING ............4 Themselves. FAMILIAR BONDAGE OVER FOREIGN FREEDOM
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Reply #25 posted 06/05/18 4:02pm

luvsexy4all

woogiebear said:

It's SIMPLE: If Jann 'Weiner" don't like U, U ain't gettin' in!!! Such is the case of Grand Funk Railroad, who not only sold out Shea Stadium TWICE AS FAST as The Beatles, but ALSO scared the Bloody sh*t outta Led Zeppelin, getting kicked off the Tour in the process!!! Not 2 mention Their 1st 4 or 5 Albums are Funk-N-Roll MASTERPIECES!!!

cool

so fuckin true is all this ...THE grand funk

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Reply #26 posted 06/19/18 1:48pm

MickyDolenz

woogiebear said:

It's SIMPLE: If Jann 'Weiner" don't like U, U ain't gettin' in!!!

They did finaly induct the Eagles, who sometimes got negative coverage in RS. But Wenner was inducted into the Hall himself. I don't suppose they're going to induct anybody from Creem magazine or Hit Parader though. razz

For 75 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #27 posted 06/22/18 11:59am

mrpunkfunk

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MotownSubdivision said:

jaawwnn said:

We should be proud that Rick is still too cool for that hoary old institution.

That's one way to look at it too. I always thought that Rick being in the Hall may actually allow a little room for people to see past the meme of "I'm Rick James, bitch!" and acknowledge his contributions to music beyond "Super Freak". It's not even just him for whatever foolish reason, not being in the Hall but just how Rick never got the credit he deserves for his artistry. Look at all of the acclaim and praise Prince has been showered with over the years and especially in death. Some of that very praise is due to Rick as well.

nod

Lady Cab Driver is one of the greatest songs ever!
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