Just watched Gap Band's "Early in the Morning" video and it got me to thinking a little...

MTV was adamant about being a station exclusively for rock music. However, they had no problem featuring new wave but refused to show funk even though that genre was closer to rock than new wave. It at least involved a guitar or heavier use of a guitar and even if one wants to argue R&B becoming more synthesized is the reason (it was), why would that be a problem? New wave was 99% synth and music in general was shifting to synthesizers.

And just for review:

They claimed to be a rock station but had no problem playing pop music and in particular, the type of pop that artists like Hall & Oates made which was steeped in R&B's influence. Yeah, that's pretty suspect...

I remember getting MTV two days after Live Aid aired back in 1985, my brothers and I kept begging our dad to get it, lol. Anyways I have many great memories of the videos and programs that I used to watch and I loved when they did live interviews with all the stars! I loved the "Under The Cherry Moon" premiere party and also watching the VMA's when they were still cool.

000000 said:

Tontoman22 said:

BET was created in 1980, it became a 24 hr channel in 1983, but was not a deciated (specifically/only) music video channel.

Most of its early entertainment consisted of music videos.

At their peak of music playing ..BET played 14 hrs of music vidoes a day.

MotownSubdivision said:

Just watched Gap Band's "Early in the Morning" video and it got me to thinking a little...

MTV was adamant about being a station exclusively for rock music. However, they had no problem featuring new wave but refused to show funk even though that genre was closer to rock than new wave. It at least involved a guitar or heavier use of a guitar and even if one wants to argue R&B becoming more synthesized is the reason (it was), why would that be a problem? New wave was 99% synth and music in general was shifting to synthesizers.

And just for review:

They claimed to be a rock station but had no problem playing pop music and in particular, the type of pop that artists like Hall & Oates made which was steeped in R&B's influence. Yeah, that's pretty suspect...

I again I think far too much is made of the colour barrier, since it came down in 83 and MTV started in Nov 81. But I agree with you, Hall & Oates were definitely pop rock, especially by the early 80's, in the early 70's they were more R & B influenced. But again if were are talking colour they were white..

Tontoman22 said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Just watched Gap Band's "Early in the Morning" video and it got me to thinking a little...

MTV was adamant about being a station exclusively for rock music. However, they had no problem featuring new wave but refused to show funk even though that genre was closer to rock than new wave. It at least involved a guitar or heavier use of a guitar and even if one wants to argue R&B becoming more synthesized is the reason (it was), why would that be a problem? New wave was 99% synth and music in general was shifting to synthesizers.

And just for review:

They claimed to be a rock station but had no problem playing pop music and in particular, the type of pop that artists like Hall & Oates made which was steeped in R&B's influence. Yeah, that's pretty suspect...

I again I think far too much is made of the colour barrier, since it came down in 83 and MTV started in Nov 81. But I agree with you, Hall & Oates were definitely pop rock, especially by the early 80's, in the early 70's they were more R & B influenced. But again if were are talking colour they were white..

Yeah and Phil Collins was on rotation with a remake of The Supremes "You Can't Hurry Love." So it was definitely a black/white thing. Before MTV an artist image wasn't as important. Talent was the key to success. You could be ugly as a motherfucker have a good voice or be a good musician and become quite successful. After MTV all that shit changed. Even today it's more about packaging, looks and style over talent.

I wonder who was the 1st Latino act to get regular rotation. Miami Sound Machine? Los Lobos? Menudo?

000000 said:

You could be ugly as a motherfucker have a good voice or be a good musician and become quite successful.

Before MTV a lot of people didn't know what many of the acts on the radio looked like. Some groups didn't even have their photos on their album covers if a listener happened to buy records. Chicago & Genesis are examples of this. Sometimes there was a picture of the act on the liner/lyric sheet or in the inside if the album was gatefold, but if you bought the 8-track there was only the front cover. Back in the 1960s and the decades before, a lot of album covers had models or scenery on the cover and not the act on the record. It was also common during that time to have some kind of writeup on the back cover. 45s often didn't have artwork at all. Maybe a small percentage of acts on the radio appeared on shows like Midnight Special, American Bandstand, Hee Haw, & Soul Train. But those shows came on once a week and in some cases late at night, depending on your city since the music programs were syndicated, not network. They also came on once a week and lasted 24 - 45 minutes without the commercials. It wasn't 24 hours a day, 7 days a week like MTV.

000000 said:

Tontoman22 said:

I again I think far too much is made of the colour barrier, since it came down in 83 and MTV started in Nov 81. But I agree with you, Hall & Oates were definitely pop rock, especially by the early 80's, in the early 70's they were more R & B influenced. But again if were are talking colour they were white..

Yeah and Phil Collins was on rotation with a remake of The Supremes "You Can't Hurry Love." So it was definitely a black/white thing. Before MTV an artist image wasn't as important. Talent was the key to success. You could be ugly as a motherfucker have a good voice or be a good musician and become quite successful. After MTV all that shit changed. Even today it's more about packaging, looks and style over talent.

For sure, video killed the radio star ! The first video played by MTV...

MickyDolenz said:

000000 said:

You could be ugly as a motherfucker have a good voice or be a good musician and become quite successful.

Before MTV a lot of people didn't know what many of the acts on the radio looked like. Some groups didn't even have their photos on their album covers if a listener happened to buy records. Chicago & Genesis are examples of this. Sometimes there was a picture of the act on the liner/lyric sheet or in the inside if the album was gatefold, but if you bought the 8-track there was only the front cover. Back in the 1960s and the decades before, a lot of album covers had models or scenery on the cover and not the act on the record. It was also common during that time to have some kind of writeup on the back cover. 45s often didn't have artwork at all. Maybe a small percentage of acts on the radio appeared on shows like Midnight Special, American Bandstand, Hee Haw, & Soul Train. But those shows came on once a week and in some cases late at night, depending on your city since the music programs were syndicated, not network. They also came on once a week and lasted 24 - 45 minutes without the commercials. It wasn't 24 hours a day, 7 days a week like MTV.

I think it would be interesting to know how many vidoes by black artist, MTV had (or had access to) and didn't play (for whatever reason). We all know that in 1984 MTV was cemented and that the industry really started to change...video became a viable way to promote sales..

Tontoman22 said:

MickyDolenz said:

Before MTV a lot of people didn't know what many of the acts on the radio looked like. Some groups didn't even have their photos on their album covers if a listener happened to buy records. Chicago & Genesis are examples of this. Sometimes there was a picture of the act on the liner/lyric sheet or in the inside if the album was gatefold, but if you bought the 8-track there was only the front cover. Back in the 1960s and the decades before, a lot of album covers had models or scenery on the cover and not the act on the record. It was also common during that time to have some kind of writeup on the back cover. 45s often didn't have artwork at all. Maybe a small percentage of acts on the radio appeared on shows like Midnight Special, American Bandstand, Hee Haw, & Soul Train. But those shows came on once a week and in some cases late at night, depending on your city since the music programs were syndicated, not network. They also came on once a week and lasted 24 - 45 minutes without the commercials. It wasn't 24 hours a day, 7 days a week like MTV.

I think it would be interesting to know how many vidoes by black artist, MTV had (or had access to) and didn't play (for whatever reason). We all know that in 1984 MTV was cemented and that the industry really started to change...video became a viable way to promote sales..

Philip Bailey (Phil Collins)-Easy Lover

Prince - Raspberry Beret

Hall&Oates/Kendricks&Ruffin - Night at the Apollo

Eddy Murphy - Party All The Time

Prince - America

Stevie Wonder - Part Time Lover

Lionel Richie - Say You Say Me

Clarence Clemmons/Jackson Browne - You're A Freind of Mine

___________________________________________________________________________________

Pointer Sisters - Nuetron Dance

Tina Turner - Private Dancer

Tina Turner - We Don't Need Another Hero

Aretha Franklin - Freeway of Love

Pointer Sisters - Dare Me

Tina Turner - One of the Living

Tina Turner/Bryan Adams - It's Only Love

Shelia E - Love Bizzare

These are the black artist that were played in heavy rotation in 1985

[Edited 4/21/18 22:00pm]

Tontoman22 said:

The book about MTV said basically everyone who collaborated on launching the channel came from radio which always followed a genre format to aim at a specific market. But radio had also became segregated too so it is the same issue.

Cinny said:

Upsetting stuff. And kinda makes me glad to see the decline of MTV.

Hamad said:

And kinda makes me glad to see the decline of MTV.

I don't know if MTV really declined. Maybe it did as a music video channel. But you can say MTV started the current reality show craze with Real World in the 1990s and the main MTV channel is known for reality now. One of the alternate MTV channels has the Nick Cannon show Wild N Out, which has been popular for a while now.

MickyDolenz said:

Hamad said:

And kinda makes me glad to see the decline of MTV.

Maybe it did as a music video channel.

Yep, thats what I meant. I could care less about their reality TV shows.

Hamad said:

Upsetting stuff. And kinda makes me glad to see the decline of MTV.

Reading about Yo MTV Raps was quite redeeming though.

MotownSubdivision said:

Cinny said:

The book about MTV said basically everyone who collaborated on launching the channel came from radio which always followed a genre format to aim at a specific market. But radio had also became segregated too so it is the same issue.

Yes, absolutely...it did, but there will still a good amount of pop radio station that played everyone like in 70's. And the segeration of radio work both ways (a two way street there..)

Tontoman22 said:

the segeration of radio work both ways (a two way street there..)

Oof. I wouldn't say that much.

Hamad said:

Yep, thats what I meant. I could care less about their reality TV shows.

Today, MTV, VH-1, & BET are owned by Viacom and so are Nickelodeon and the country music station CMT. I guess that is why VH-1 Soul changed names to BET Soul. Seems like whatever it is in entertainment, many of the older companies (records, radio, TV, movies, etc) have been bought out by a conglomerate (ig. Disney).

Cinny said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Cinny said:

Oof. I wouldn't say that much.

Yeah... I got the Billboard Yearbooks for 1983, '84 and '85 and there were quite a few white artists that crossed over to the black charts. Culture Club, Howard Jones, Phil Collins, Madonna and of course, Hall & Oates and George Michael are some of those acts I can name off the top of my head. On top of that, the circumstances for "reverse crossovers" weren't the same as black artists crossing over to the pop audience. [Edited 4/27/18 2:54am]

They were being played, but that was also a curture onto itself (depended on who they worked with). Benny Mardones "Into the Night" - was being played by black radio, until they found out he was white...then they stopped playing him.

Tontoman22 said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Tontoman22 said:

They were being played, but that was also a curture onto itself (depended on who they worked with). Benny Mardones "Into the Night" - was being played by black radio, until they found out he was white...then they stopped playing him.

Was that during the MTV era?

It was the early 80's, so yes.. ..or just before. It apparently, also happened with Rick Astley (and that would have been in the MTV era).

Tontoman22 said:

Tontoman22 said:

They were being played, but that was also a curture onto itself (depended on who they worked with). Benny Mardones "Into the Night" - was being played by black radio, until they found out he was white...then they stopped playing him.

I don't know who Benny Mardones is, but the R&B stations where I live played many white acts in the 1980s.

Culture Club
Kraftwerk
Wham! / George Michael
Duran Duran
Dan Hartman
Hall & Oates
Falco
ABC (not Michael Bivins' kid group, but the one with Be Near Me, Millionaire, Broken Arrow, When Smokey Sings, etc.)
Sheena Easton
Pet Shop Boys - West End Girls (remix) / Opportunities
Depeche Mode - People Are People / Strangelove / Route 66
Michael Franks

UB40 (multi-race band, but the lead singer is white)
Madonna
Information Society
Phil Collins

Paul McCartney - Coming Up (live version) / Arrow Though Me / Ebony And Ivory / Say Say Say / The Girl Is Mine / Goodnight Tonight
Teena Marie
Kenny G
Beastie Boys

Nu Shooz

Robbie Nevil
Human League

Sam Harris (he was a singer that competed on Star Search)
Elton John

Christopher Cross
Howard Jones

Taylor Dayne
Paul Hardcastle

Harold Faltermeyer
Jeff Lorber

Level 42

Tears For Fears - Shout (12" remix)
Samantha Fox - I Wanna Have Some Fun / Naughty Girls
New Kids On The Block
Doobie Brothers / Michael McDonald
Queen - Another One Bites The Dust / We Will Rock You
Rolling Stones - Harlem Shuffle
Blondie - Rapture
Joe Jackson - Stepping Out
INXS - New Sensation / Need You Tonight
Julian Lennon - Too Late For Goodbyes
Kenny Rogers - Lady

J. Geils Band - Flamethrower

Peter Wolf - Lights Out

Peter Gabriel - Sledgehammer

M|A|R|R|S - Pump Up The Volume

Eagles - I Can't Tell You Why
Don Henley - All She Wants To Do Is Dance

Ambrosia - Biggest Part Of Me

The Romantics - Talking in Your Sleep (instrumental)

Yes - Owner Of A Lonely Heart (remix)

Pretty Poison - Catch Me

Donny Osmond - Soldier Of Love

Steve Miller Band - Abracadabra

Robbie Dupree - Steal Away

Styx - Mr. Roboto

Weird Al - Eat It / Living With A Hernia

Debbie Gibson - Foolish Beat

Murray Head - One Night In Bangkok

Kenny Loggins - This Is It

Thomas Dolby - She's Blinding Me With Science

Pink Floyd - Another Brick In The Wall

U2 - Angel Of Harlem

There were also other non-black acts like:
Miami Sound Machine / Gloria Estefan
Lisa Lisa
The Jets / Boys Club
Exposé

Hiroshima
Noel
Stevie B
Glenn Medeiros

Brenda K. Starr

Mellow Man Ace

Nocera - Summertime Summertime
Cover Girls

MickyDolenz said:

Nocera - Summertime Summertime

It is only Spring and I have this 12" on deck

MickyDolenz said:

Tontoman22 said:

They were being played, but that was also a curture onto itself (depended on who they worked with). Benny Mardones "Into the Night" - was being played by black radio, until they found out he was white...then they stopped playing him.

I don't know who Benny Mardones is, but the R&B stations where I live played many white acts in the 1980s.

Culture Club
Kraftwerk
Wham! / George Michael
Duran Duran
Dan Hartman
Hall & Oates
Falco
ABC (not Michael Bivins' kid group, but the one with Be Near Me, Millionaire, Broken Arrow, When Smokey Sings, etc.)
Sheena Easton
Pet Shop Boys - West End Girls (remix) / Opportunities
Depeche Mode - People Are People / Strangelove / Route 66
Michael Franks

UB40 (multi-race band, but the lead singer is white)
Madonna
Information Society
Phil Collins

Paul McCartney - Coming Up (live version) / Arrow Though Me / Ebony And Ivory / Say Say Say / The Girl Is Mine / Goodnight Tonight
Teena Marie
Kenny G
Beastie Boys

Nu Shooz

Robbie Nevil
Human League

Sam Harris (he was a singer that competed on Star Search)
Elton John

Christopher Cross
Howard Jones

Taylor Dayne
Paul Hardcastle

Harold Faltermeyer
Jeff Lorber

Level 42

Tears For Fears - Shout (12" remix)
Samantha Fox - I Wanna Have Some Fun / Naughty Girls
New Kids On The Block
Doobie Brothers / Michael McDonald
Queen - Another One Bites The Dust / We Will Rock You
Rolling Stones - Harlem Shuffle
Blondie - Rapture
Joe Jackson - Stepping Out
INXS - New Sensation / Need You Tonight
Julian Lennon - Too Late For Goodbyes
Kenny Rogers - Lady

J. Geils Band - Flamethrower

Peter Wolf - Lights Out

Peter Gabriel - Sledgehammer

M|A|R|R|S - Pump Up The Volume

Eagles - I Can't Tell You Why
Don Henley - All She Wants To Do Is Dance

Ambrosia - Biggest Part Of Me

The Romantics - Talking in Your Sleep (instrumental)

Yes - Owner Of A Lonely Heart (remix)

Pretty Poison - Catch Me

Donny Osmond - Soldier Of Love

Steve Miller Band - Abracadabra

Robbie Dupree - Steal Away

Styx - Mr. Roboto

Weird Al - Eat It / Living With A Hernia

Debbie Gibson - Foolish Beat

Murray Head - One Night In Bangkok

Kenny Loggins - This Is It

Thomas Dolby - She's Blinding Me With Science

Pink Floyd - Another Brick In The Wall

U2 - Angel Of Harlem

There were also other non-black acts like:
Miami Sound Machine / Gloria Estefan
Lisa Lisa
The Jets / Boys Club
Exposé

Hiroshima
Noel
Stevie B
Glenn Medeiros

Brenda K. Starr

Mellow Man Ace

Nocera - Summertime Summertime
Cover Girls

I never said the R & B stations didn't play white artists. I pointed out that it worked both ways, for whatever reason (usually depending on who they work with). eg. Elton John had 2 songs played on R & B radio in the 80's....(That's What Friend Are For - Dionne and Friends, Through The Storm - with Aretha). You listing a bunch of artists, would be like someone listing, black artists that white stations played.

[Edited 5/5/18 5:57am]