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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Let's talk Frank Zappa: Genius or just average comedian
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Reply #30 posted 02/11/18 1:05pm

Musician9

GENIUS for real.

he wrote charts for every note of music on those records. Prince wouldn't even get through his first album in his 30 year career, and then he recorded double what P did in less time as well.

sure his stuff will not be for everybody, I literally think he did not want any fans, but when you transcribe and perform dead classical artists music for a modern audience you're well beyond the pop music of P and Bowie, even Miles, who needed Bill Evans for that sort of expertise.

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Reply #31 posted 02/11/18 2:20pm

DarkHorse77

Zappa was a stone cold genius, and (with all due respect to Prince) the greatest guitarist ever to walk Earth, imo.

Oh, and I can't recommend Captain Beefheart highly enough to everyone!

[Edited 2/11/18 14:21pm]

"Anna Stesia come to me, talk to me, ravish me
Liberate my mind."
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Reply #32 posted 02/11/18 3:21pm

stpaisios

DarkHorse77 said:

Zappa was a stone cold genius, and (with all due respect to Prince) the greatest guitarist ever to walk Earth, imo.

Oh, and I can't recommend Captain Beefheart highly enough to everyone!

I am getting right now into some recommended Zappa records, but even when i tried to get through his catalog few yrs ago i got impression of a big mess. His vocal delivery and big time satire & other themes are not appealing 2 me. 'Greatest guitarist ever' is somethign i dont really care about... cuz a never saw Prince primary as a guitar player or virtuoso of some kind. I mean, give me Joy in Repetition or that solo on I HATE U and i am ok with guitar playing....

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Reply #33 posted 02/12/18 12:25am

Neversin

avatar

DarkHorse77 said:

Zappa was a stone cold genius, and (with all due respect to Prince) the greatest guitarist ever to walk Earth, imo.

Oh, and I can't recommend Captain Beefheart highly enough to everyone!

[Edited 2/11/18 14:21pm]


I always thought of Zappa as a not all too great guitar player who could write amazing guitar parts... But parts best for someone else to play, like Vai for example... Zappa wasn't a virtuoso but he did write like one...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
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Reply #34 posted 02/12/18 2:33am

mynameisnotsus
an

Goddess4Real said:

Finally....my fav Frank Zappa song.....I'm The Slime (1973)





Love this song cool

This cover makes me smile

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Reply #35 posted 02/12/18 6:10am

TheFman

I could use the word genius if i would hear a single great melody by him. But for all his greatness, that's what is missing in his songs, imo.

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Reply #36 posted 02/12/18 8:20am

PeteSilas

TheFman said:

I could use the word genius if i would hear a single great melody by him. But for all his greatness, that's what is missing in his songs, imo.

you might be right, i loved trouble everyday though, that was a great rockin' tune. and, prophetic too.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #37 posted 02/12/18 8:29am

PeteSilas

last night i was listening to his live version of stairway to heaven, as good as it is, as sharp and clear as it's played, he can't stop being a smartass long enough to let the song play, all sorts of wierd effects and shit, there is a point where that detracts from just how good he was as musician,bandleader etc.., that has to count against him because it almost seems like he's trying to sabotage the performance himself and it was great without all that shit.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #38 posted 02/14/18 2:34pm

mrwiggles

Don't sleep on his guitar skills either. Helluva player. Find you a version of Watermelon In Easter Hay and get back to me.

And as far as I know this mug was self taught. Grew up out in the desert out west somewhere, New Mexico or sumn. Started picking up some instruments and some old Doo wop 45's and went from there.
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Reply #39 posted 02/15/18 6:01pm

2045RadicalMat
tZ

Fucking genius but LUMPY GRAVY and a lot of that era is honestly Crap excremental/experimental music

Favorites:
DOREEN
ZOMBIE WOOF
THE MUFFIN MAN
CATHOLIC GIRLS
JOE'S GARAGE (*tell me that song ain't the truth? )
HARDER THAN YOUR HUSBAND
HEAVENLY BANK ACCOUNT
I'M THE SLIME
BLACK NAPKINS
PEACHES EN REGALIA
HE'S SO GAY


ABSOLUTE MUST LISTEN= JOE'S GARAGE PARTS I, II & III, *AND (*) APOSTROPHE
[Edited 2/15/18 18:02pm]
"Ahhh c'mon, BE A NOSE! " - WALTER PAISLEY
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Reply #40 posted 02/15/18 6:06pm

2045RadicalMat
tZ

mrwiggles said:

Don't sleep on his guitar skills either. Helluva player. Find you a version of Watermelon In Easter Hay and get back to me.

And as far as I know this mug was self taught. Grew up out in the desert out west somewhere, New Mexico or sumn. Started picking up some instruments and some old Doo wop 45's and went from there.



** he's on record for staying that "3 HOURS PAST MIDNIGHT" by JOHNNY GUITAR WATSON (*YES, the very same) changed his life and was THE decisive moment when he decided that v he would be a musician.


That's where he got his forceful picking style. Johnny plucked like a motherfucker....and with the exception of Zappa fans doesn't get much credit. .



....AIN'T THAT A BITCH?
"Ahhh c'mon, BE A NOSE! " - WALTER PAISLEY
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Reply #41 posted 02/17/18 12:47am

2045RadicalMat
tZ

Geez. A couple days later and no new responses.


I just wanted to say. ....GOOD GRAVY! How did i forget that wonderful song LUCILLE ?


One of the best they'd done.



But i DO feel the casual listener. If you start on the wrong and most INACCESIBLE or UNRELATABLE music then Zappa can be a fucking Downer.

I'm in the minority among fans in that i don't like WE'RE ONLY IN IT FOR THE MONEY and FREAK OUT! ....nor his attempt at Broadway stuff.

I gotta listen to the orchestral stuff in a better FREER mindset before i can say anything about that yet. All these years and i still spin the same 8 ZAPPA albums despite having about 30. (And YouTube prob accounting for all the rest on a good listen)
"Ahhh c'mon, BE A NOSE! " - WALTER PAISLEY
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Reply #42 posted 02/17/18 1:40am

funkaholic1972

avatar

2045RadicalMattZ said:

mrwiggles said:
Don't sleep on his guitar skills either. Helluva player. Find you a version of Watermelon In Easter Hay and get back to me. And as far as I know this mug was self taught. Grew up out in the desert out west somewhere, New Mexico or sumn. Started picking up some instruments and some old Doo wop 45's and went from there.
** he's on record for staying that "3 HOURS PAST MIDNIGHT" by JOHNNY GUITAR WATSON (*YES, the very same) changed his life and was THE decisive moment when he decided that v he would be a musician. That's where he got his forceful picking style. Johnny plucked like a motherfucker....and with the exception of Zappa fans doesn't get much credit. . ....AIN'T THAT A BITCH?

JGW is one of the great to me, he is an excellent artist with some great albums under his belt.

RIP Prince: thank U 4 a funky Time!
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Reply #43 posted 02/17/18 2:15am

mrwiggles

2045RadicalMattZ said:

mrwiggles said:

Don't sleep on his guitar skills either. Helluva player. Find you a version of Watermelon In Easter Hay and get back to me.

And as far as I know this mug was self taught. Grew up out in the desert out west somewhere, New Mexico or sumn. Started picking up some instruments and some old Doo wop 45's and went from there.



** he's on record for staying that "3 HOURS PAST MIDNIGHT" by JOHNNY GUITAR WATSON (*YES, the very same) changed his life and was THE decisive moment when he decided that v he would be a musician.


That's where he got his forceful picking style. Johnny plucked like a motherfucker....and with the exception of Zappa fans doesn't get much credit. .



....AIN'T THAT A BITCH?


Thanks for pointing that out. Yes Zappa worshipped him. Johnny Guitar Watson is one of the great unsung heroes in the music world. Most only remember him for that run of funk LPs he had in the mid 70s, but this mug was getting way down long before that. However, he is known as a musicians musician and had enormous influence on a lot of great guitarists.
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Reply #44 posted 02/17/18 8:01am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

This pure genius:

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #45 posted 02/17/18 11:04am

mrwiggles

2045RadicalMattZ said:

Fucking genius but LUMPY GRAVY and a lot of that era is honestly Crap excremental/experimental music

Favorites:
DOREEN
ZOMBIE WOOF
THE MUFFIN MAN
CATHOLIC GIRLS
JOE'S GARAGE (*tell me that song ain't the truth? )
HARDER THAN YOUR HUSBAND
HEAVENLY BANK ACCOUNT
I'M THE SLIME
BLACK NAPKINS
PEACHES EN REGALIA
HE'S SO GAY


ABSOLUTE MUST LISTEN= JOE'S GARAGE PARTS I, II & III, *AND (*) APOSTROPHE
[Edited 2/15/18 18:02pm]
d


The whole Joe's Garage album is a conceptual master work.
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Reply #46 posted 02/17/18 5:20pm

Germanegro

I have listened completely through exactly 2 of his albums: Joe's Garage and Tinsel Town Rebellion. I thought they were both brilliant and ridiculously hillarious! He was defininitely above average at least, I think. He would go to places where others mightn't dare!

wink thumbs up!

Goddess4Real said:

Fine Girl (1981)

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Reply #47 posted 02/17/18 5:51pm

Germanegro

mrwiggles said:

Don't sleep on his guitar skills either. Helluva player. Find you a version of Watermelon In Easter Hay and get back to me. And as far as I know this mug was self taught. Grew up out in the desert out west somewhere, New Mexico or sumn. Started picking up some instruments and some old Doo wop 45's and went from there.

>

Stop lyin'! lol

Dude was from BALTIMORE, MD.

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Reply #48 posted 02/17/18 6:35pm

mrwiggles

Germanegro said:



mrwiggles said:


Don't sleep on his guitar skills either. Helluva player. Find you a version of Watermelon In Easter Hay and get back to me. And as far as I know this mug was self taught. Grew up out in the desert out west somewhere, New Mexico or sumn. Started picking up some instruments and some old Doo wop 45's and went from there.

>


Stop lyin'! lol


Dude was from BALTIMORE, MD.




True, he was born there. But, sometime in the early 1950's during his formative years the family moved out west. Somewhere in the desert. That is where his musical identity starts to take root. I'm telling you. It was either New Mexico or extreme southern Cali.
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Reply #49 posted 02/17/18 7:46pm

Germanegro

mrwiggles said:

Germanegro said:

>

Stop lyin'! lol

Dude was from BALTIMORE, MD.

True, he was born there. But, sometime in the early 1950's during his formative years the family moved out west. Somewhere in the desert. That is where his musical identity starts to take root. I'm telling you. It was either New Mexico or extreme southern Cali.

OK, yeah, true. I think it was to CA where the family had moved and his musical talents took hold. But, like all young'uns, significant personality developments did take root early in that mid-Atlantic regional homeground.

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Reply #50 posted 02/18/18 1:36am

NorthC

Yeah, it was the desert of California where he grew up. I think the song Village of the Sun is about that. It mentions a place called Palmdale.
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #51 posted 02/18/18 3:47am

mrwiggles

Germanegro said:



mrwiggles said:


Germanegro said:


>


Stop lyin'! lol


Dude was from BALTIMORE, MD.



True, he was born there. But, sometime in the early 1950's during his formative years the family moved out west. Somewhere in the desert. That is where his musical identity starts to take root. I'm telling you. It was either New Mexico or extreme southern Cali.

OK, yeah, true. I think it was to CA where the family had moved and his musical talents took hold. But, like all young'uns, significant personality developments did take root early in that mid-Atlantic regional homeground.



Absolutely, and this mug was vibrating at his own frequency for sure. Once he got to the west and starts collecting all those old R&B 45's he started going off. Was playing whatever he could get his hands on. Prince, Junie, mugs like that just got it in 'em somehow. Born with it.
Interesting side note that Deep Purple's Smoke On The Water is based on a Zappa performance. Somewhere at Switzerland I think a Zappa gig caught on fiyah. The smoke rolled out over the lake and they made a song about it.
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Reply #52 posted 02/18/18 11:15am

PeteSilas

it's on wiki, he moved a buncha different places, his dad, interesting worked with chemicals of some kind and i guess some people have surmised that may have had something to do with his cancer. most likely it was the heavy smoking.

mrwiggles said:

Germanegro said:

>

Stop lyin'! lol

Dude was from BALTIMORE, MD.

True, he was born there. But, sometime in the early 1950's during his formative years the family moved out west. Somewhere in the desert. That is where his musical identity starts to take root. I'm telling you. It was either New Mexico or extreme southern Cali.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #53 posted 02/18/18 6:03pm

stpaisios

I was typing in web search box something about Frank being a genius and i got the opposite. What a coincidence, this just deepen my doubt about Zappa... i think i will never recover. confused sad

http://www.stuff.co.nz/en...cal-genuis

.

[Edited 2/18/18 18:04pm]

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Reply #54 posted 02/18/18 8:47pm

PeteSilas

stpaisios said:

I was typing in web search box something about Frank being a genius and i got the opposite. What a coincidence, this just deepen my doubt about Zappa... i think i will never recover. confused sad

http://www.stuff.co.nz/en...cal-genuis

.

[Edited 2/18/18 18:04pm]

just one, every artist has critics, frank was vicious to elvis and several others.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #55 posted 02/19/18 4:38am

NorthC

stpaisios said:

I was typing in web search box something about Frank being a genius and i got the opposite. What a coincidence, this just deepen my doubt about Zappa... i think i will never recover. confused sad



http://www.stuff.co.nz/en...cal-genuis


.



[Edited 2/18/18 18:04pm]


Why would this stop you? It's just one person's opinion. There's also plenty of people who will say that Prince was no musical genius. And maybe one could call him a conservative disguised as a revolutionary as well.
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #56 posted 02/19/18 7:58pm

2045RadicalMat
tZ

PeteSilas said:

it's on wiki, he moved a buncha different places, his dad, interesting worked with chemicals of some kind and i guess some people have surmised that may have had something to do with his cancer. most likely it was the heavy smoking.



mrwiggles said:


Germanegro said:


>


Stop lyin'! lol


Dude was from BALTIMORE, MD.



True, he was born there. But, sometime in the early 1950's during his formative years the family moved out west. Somewhere in the desert. That is where his musical identity starts to take root. I'm telling you. It was either New Mexico or extreme southern Cali.


There's a suggestion out there that his classic song :"WHY DOES IT HURT WHEN I PEE?" was based on fact and that he'd had that problem developing in the early 80's. Of course, he'd also seen doctors but they failed to correlate the issues and determine a diagnosis, locating the growths.

So. .....always get a second opinion if you can.
"Ahhh c'mon, BE A NOSE! " - WALTER PAISLEY
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Reply #57 posted 02/20/18 10:47am

PeteSilas

2045RadicalMattZ said:

PeteSilas said:

it's on wiki, he moved a buncha different places, his dad, interesting worked with chemicals of some kind and i guess some people have surmised that may have had something to do with his cancer. most likely it was the heavy smoking.

There's a suggestion out there that his classic song :"WHY DOES IT HURT WHEN I PEE?" was based on fact and that he'd had that problem developing in the early 80's. Of course, he'd also seen doctors but they failed to correlate the issues and determine a diagnosis, locating the growths. So. .....always get a second opinion if you can.

kinda tragic, he was probably making light of it too. 52 is really not a lot of time when you consider his vast output, like Prince, who alan leeds said of "makes elvis look like a piker" whatever a piker is. and elvis was prolific himself excepting he didn't do most of the writing/playing/producing.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #58 posted 02/20/18 2:50pm

2045RadicalMat
tZ

PeteSilas said:

2045RadicalMattZ said:

PeteSilas said: There's a suggestion out there that his classic song :"WHY DOES IT HURT WHEN I PEE?" was based on fact and that he'd had that problem developing in the early 80's. Of course, he'd also seen doctors but they failed to correlate the issues and determine a diagnosis, locating the growths. So. .....always get a second opinion if you can.

kinda tragic, he was probably making light of it too. 52 is really not a lot of time when you consider his vast output, like Prince, who alan leeds said of "makes elvis look like a piker" whatever a piker is. and elvis was prolific himself excepting he didn't do most of the writing/playing/producing.

i'M STILL UNCERTAIN THOUGH....all I've done is read those second hand quotes attributing this and that to who and whomever....

Found this bit on "GENIUS.com" as well..:

Frank Zappa described this song as a stupid song with a stupid arrangement based on a quote screamed out by Zappa's associate, producer Phil Kaufman as described in his introduction to a live performance of the track.

But I'm uncertain of it's origin... cause it couldn't be based on the quote ....as the quote preceded the song... so...maybe it was based on the associate producer pretty often...i dunno.

"Ahhh c'mon, BE A NOSE! " - WALTER PAISLEY
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Reply #59 posted 02/20/18 4:21pm

CherryMoon57

It's clear both Prince and Zappa came from the same musical planet



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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Let's talk Frank Zappa: Genius or just average comedian