My favorite songs with Michael Jackson are I Want You Back (released 7 October 1969, with a marvelous version of Who's Loving You on the b side) and Candy Girl ABC (released 24 February 1970).

.

It was all downhill after that.

Both P & MJ were true legends..

However Prince was far more talented (he was a God gifted musician)... IMHO...

thedance said:

Mandingo said:

Although MJ was in the Jackson 5 and did have a few solos like BEN, really when we think about it, he and Prince both debuted as young African American male rnb artists around the same time. Off the wall could have failed. There were no guarantees. My point is that Prince and MJ both had the same amount to prove at the same time and saying MJ started before Prince is simplistic. A child's career is very very different to their coming of age adult music. You wouldnt judge Britney or Christina on their Disney days would you? Prince was in Grand Central and Champagne as a kid. He recorded with Willie as well.He wasn't new to the game either. Both MJ and Prince as the artists we REALLY critique them on; started in the late 70''s. As equals. MJ did not have any right to success and Prince had as much to win or lose. [Edited 12/11/17 0:57am]

The diffence is the Prince was completely unknown and MJ was already a household name. That said, I grew up loving both of them.

Comparing Jackson 5 and later The Jacksons to the mickey mouse club is a stretch

Looking cute in your avatar though

It's no secret around here that I became a Prince fan in 1979, thanks to the pioneering efforts of Detroit's favorite DJ, the ONE and ONLY Electrifying MOJO. Which would mean I was in the 3rd grade. However, I became a Michael Jackson fan before that. The very first music video I ever saw was...

I think I was 5 years old then and that song endeared me to Michael long before his other successes and regardless of Prince's.

I loved them BOTH for who they were individually and how their talent and efforts, influenced and most importantly...helped me...become the ME that I am. And I've come to completely understand that there is absolutely nothing wrong with loving them BOTH!

thedance said:

Both P & MJ were true legends..

However Prince was far more talented (he was a God gifted musician)... IMHO...

That's an apples and oranges statement, really. To say Prince was more talented is really (and probably unintentional on your part) disrespectful to the amazing legacy and career of Michael Jackson.

Both are African-American men, born in 1958 in the midwest into poor families with multiple children. Both struggled with their father's overbearing personalities. Both had a natural inclination to music early on in life.

Prince had it slightly better because despite his parents divorcing, living with Andre, etc., he had a normal person's childhood. MJ was thrust into show business in kindergarten or first grade.

MJ had solo records before Off The Wall, so Prince still had a later start. Got To Be There, Ben, Music & Me, Forever Michael were albums from 1972-1975. Four albums in three years. OTW didn't happen for another four years after Forever Michael. When you talk about instruments, there is no doubt MJ could play piano, and probably played drums or guitar a bit - enough to play a hook or create a melody or rhythm. (And he could beatbox like a motherfucker - Prince did not but he could vocalize percussive elements). MJ also played on his albums, just not quite as much as Prince's one-man-band approach. Even on "Morphine", his name is in the instrument credits more than others.

MJ certainly had more #1 hits than Prince did, which is pretty massive considering his output was a fraction of what Prince did. MJ saw the plus of making folks wait a few years before putting something out. Leave 'em hanging and wanting more. Prince created so frequently that his output could have been once a quarter (4x a year) easily.

Both were dynamic performers, amazing songwriters, complex creatures the likes of which even legends like James Brown or George Clinton never quite reached the status of in their lives. I'm sure JB & GC were proud of MJ & Prince though. You always want better for your kids, or the next generation. "Learn from me, and do better with it". I'm not sure if there is really anyone who is a pretender to the throne right now. We might get another MJ or Prince type talent down the line. (They might even be born today and us not know it.) The world and its dynamics are different today, so the raw need to make it, the struggle, and the requirements of being a real musician are lax. It's easier to sit at a computer and throw beats together. MJ & Prince were lugging instruments and a band around to make shit happen, not their MacBook Pro and a soundboard from Guitar World. So - time will tell.

But now that the dust has settled, a bit, on both of these men's careers - I've yet to see a really valid argument on one being blindingly better than the other.

August 10 1979

April 7 1978

This is true. Obviously Off The Wall was the winner, but I always adored For You for being so musical and rich in sensuality. I actually like "For You" more than "Prince", but not more than Off The Wall. I wodner if Mike ever listened to the album at the time or what were his thoughts on it.

MotownSubdivision said:

The Jackson 5 was a part of Michael's career whereas the Mickey Mouse Club was not part of the careers of Britney and Christina. To compare the two and say they're one in the same is silly.

.

Mickey Mouse Club is the reason for the careers of Bertney and Xtina.

Mandingo said:

I see your point, that MJ and Prince were reaching the tipping points of their careers at the same time (1979). It's a legitimate one. I just quibble with how you get there.

Although MJ was in the Jackson 5 and did have a few solos like BEN, really when we think about it, he and Prince both debuted as young African American male rnb artists around the same time.

Michael Jackson debuted as a solo artist in 1972, when he was a teenager, 6 years before Prince dropped his solo debut in his teens. The album and singles charted relatively well. You can't ignore that.

Off the wall could have failed. There were no guarantees. My point is that Prince and MJ both had the same amount to prove at the same time and saying MJ started before Prince is simplistic. A child's career is very very different to their coming of age adult music. You wouldnt judge Britney or Christina on their Disney days would you?

That's not the best analogy. Britney and Christina weren't releasing pop albums when they were with Disney, nor were they household names when they dropped their solo debuts.

Prince was in Grand Central and Champagne as a kid. He recorded with Willie as well.He wasn't new to the game either. Both MJ and Prince as the artists we REALLY critique them on; started in the late 70''s. As equals. MJ did not have any right to success and Prince had as much to win or lose.

That's not completely accurate. Prince was an experienced musician, but that experience does not compare to MJ being in one of the biggest acts in pop music history before he launched his solo career. As a "child star," MJ didn't have "any right" to future success, but he had tasted it already and he wanted to go to the next level.

That's why MJ knew that Off The Wall would be a defining point in his career. For his part Prince knew his sophomore LP would need to produce results so he didn't just get lost in the shuffle. He redefined his look, sound and image the following year with Dirty Mind.

The stakes were high for both of them in 1979, and superstardom was not a foregone conclusion. You're right on that. But the contexts were different. They both wanted superstardom, but only one of them had been a star by that time.

[Edited 12/11/17 13:00pm]

namepeace said:

Mandingo said:

I see your point, that MJ and Prince were reaching the tipping points of their careers at the same time (1979). It's a legitimate one. I just quibble with how you get there.

Although MJ was in the Jackson 5 and did have a few solos like BEN, really when we think about it, he and Prince both debuted as young African American male rnb artists around the same time.

Michael Jackson debuted as a solo artist in 1972, when he was a teenager, 6 years before Prince dropped his solo debut in his teens. The album and singles charted relatively well. You can't ignore that.

Off the wall could have failed. There were no guarantees. My point is that Prince and MJ both had the same amount to prove at the same time and saying MJ started before Prince is simplistic. A child's career is very very different to their coming of age adult music. You wouldnt judge Britney or Christina on their Disney days would you?

That's not the best analogy. Britney and Christina weren't releasing pop albums when they were with Disney, nor were they household names when they dropped their solo debuts.

Prince was in Grand Central and Champagne as a kid. He recorded with Willie as well.He wasn't new to the game either. Both MJ and Prince as the artists we REALLY critique them on; started in the late 70''s. As equals. MJ did not have any right to success and Prince had as much to win or lose.

That's not completely accurate. Prince was an experienced musician, but that experience does not compare to MJ being in one of the biggest acts in pop music history before he launched his solo career. As a "child star," MJ didn't have "any right" to future success, but he had tasted it already and he wanted to go to the next level.

That's why MJ knew that Off The Wall would be a defining point in his career. For his part Prince knew his sophomore LP would need to produce results so he didn't just get lost in the shuffle. He redefined his look, sound and image the following year with Dirty Mind.

The stakes were high for both of them in 1979, and superstardom was not a foregone conclusion. You're right on that. But the contexts were different. They both wanted superstardom, but only one of them had been a star by that time.

[Edited 12/11/17 13:00pm]

Agreed. Thanks for clarifying. So good when people can talk on the org or even debate but do so respectfully. I feel I learned something from you. Thank you and peace

paisleypark4 said:

August 10 1979

April 7 1978

This is true. Obviously Off The Wall was the winner, but I always adored For You for being so musical and rich in sensuality. I actually like "For You" more than "Prince", but not more than Off The Wall. I wodner if Mike ever listened to the album at the time or what were his thoughts on it.

Thank you,

Good to see at least two people on the thread actually got what I was trying to say and didn't get caught up in the Disney comment. Jeesh..no wonder Trump's President. People hear the shiny words and chase them....hey peolple...WALL, CHINA.....OBAMAAAA's birth certificate....go fetch!

StrangeButTrue said:

MotownSubdivision said:

The Jackson 5 was a part of Michael's career whereas the Mickey Mouse Club was not part of the careers of Britney and Christina. To compare the two and say they're one in the same is silly.

.

Mickey Mouse Club is the reason for the careers of Bertney and Xtina.

Exactly. It's the reason for the career, not the actual career. The Jackson 5 was a part of Michael's career.

Mandingo said:

namepeace said:

[Edited 12/11/17 13:00pm]

Agreed. Thanks for clarifying. So good when people can talk on the org or even debate but do so respectfully. I feel I learned something from you. Thank you and peace

You raised great points. Spike Lee makes many of the same points in his documentary of MJ and the making of Off The Wall.

Happy holidays . . . and happy Orging!

MotownSubdivision said:

StrangeButTrue said:

.

Mickey Mouse Club is the reason for the careers of Bertney and Xtina.

Exactly. It's the reason for the career, not the actual career. The Jackson 5 was a part of Michael's career.

.

I like a lot of the J5 stuff so much, it is almost hard to believe that the fella on Invincible album is that same kid. J5 became big due to sheer talent.

MotownSubdivision said:

StrangeButTrue said:

.

Mickey Mouse Club is the reason for the careers of Bertney and Xtina.

Exactly. It's the reason for the career, not the actual career. The Jackson 5 was a part of Michael's career.

While Mickey Mouse Club is not their music recording career, it was clearly their connection to the music industry and thus part of their career in the entertainment industry as a whole.

But I'm guessing most would say Beyonce's career started with Destiny's Child. Star Search was just a one off non-contractual performance, unlike the Mickey Mouse Club.

[Edited 12/11/17 14:52pm]

[Edited 12/11/17 15:35pm]

mnbvc said:

Mandingo said:

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

mnbvc said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Exactly. It's the reason for the career, not the actual career. The Jackson 5 was a part of Michael's career.

While Mickey Mouse Club is not their music recording career, it was clearly their connection to the music industry and thus part of their career in the entertainment industry as a whole.

But I'm guessing most would say Beyonce's career started with Destiny's Child. Star Search was just a one off non-contractual performance, unlike the Mickey Mouse Club.

[Edited 12/11/17 14:52pm]

[Edited 12/11/17 15:35pm]

Even so, it still isn't the same as when Michael was a part of the Jackson 5; as in actually being signed to a label, releasing albums and having charting singles. The keyword for the Mickey Mouse Club is "connection"; it was the liaison to bigger things for Britney and Christina while being signed to Motown after toiling around for years trying to get noticed and becoming the Jackson 5 was the start of bigger things for Michael.

[Edited 12/11/17 17:54pm]

[Edited 12/12/17 4:10am]

MotownSubdivision said:

LittleBLUECorvette said:

purple05 said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Even so, it still isn't the same as when Michael was a part of the Jackson 5; as in actually being signed to a label, releasing albums and having charting singles. The keyword for the Mickey Mouse Club is "connection"; it was the liaison to bigger things for Britney and Christina while being signed to Motown after toiling around for years trying to get noticed and becoming the Jackson 5 was the start of bigger things for Michael.

[Edited 12/11/17 17:54pm]

I'm not getting the Mickey Mouse club connection either. MJ was working an adult schedule from 67. I guess MJs Caitlin circuit days could equal that but they were performing with professional acts then [Edited 12/11/17 22:15pm]

True, it's not the same as MJ was far more talented and he was already a professional under the age of 10. When it all adds up, MJ had around a 40 year career of success in the entertainment industry, which is legendary. His sister Janet seems to be getting to that mark now as Good Times debuted 40 Septembers ago and she was on the Jackson Variety Show in 1976. (With the only asterisk being MJ and co opened the doors for all that)

With her Vegas show Britney has now been successful in the entertainment industry for over 20 years, when you count the Mickey Mouse Club. (I would say her lack of singing is arguably offset by her show giving people more jobs than a Celine Dion type show)

[Edited 12/12/17 4:19am]

purple05 said:

Ok.

I know MJ strted performing and recording as a young boy way before Prince and had superstardom when Prince was unknown

But..

My point is that despite all his success in the Jackson 5, Off The Wall mean't Michael had to really come to the world as a 'new' artist. He couldn't 'rest on his laurels'.

His look, sound, dancing, even his features were all NEW. He had to line up as an adult and try to have a successful solo album just the same as Prince did in 1978's FOR YOU...

Ok ok, Michael had the up of being in the game longer but in terms of just imagining them as 2 African American guys born in 1958 trying to have success as a solo artist in the late 1970's ...I feel they both had an equal shot. OTW could have flopped. FOR YOU could have rocketed Prince to superstardom with MJ just becoming a has been who appears on greatest hits from the 70's compilations as little Michael from the Jacksons.

Those albums were defining for them both and they both had as much to lose as to gain.

To simplify, look at it like the new Justice League movie. The characters in that are beloved and established. Supes, WW, The Flash..even Fish boy. But you can see that they flopped when they didn't bring their A game.

Even a seasoned respected artist like MJ could have lost his title to Prince in the late 70's.

They started their careers as we remember them today in the late 70's and each had a shot..an equal shot. Just like when Rocky beat Apollo Creed

Mandingo said: