SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

Don't get me wrong. I love Michael Jackson, like millions on this earth. Of course, he made some of the greatest music ever.

However, when I see clips of people fainting and crying at the sight of him and had to be carried away by ambulence ... honestly, it's a little cringey.

Yeah, I don't know how I'd react if I ever met Michael Jackson (if he was still alive), but still wasn't his celebrity status a little overrated?

absolutely not, his fame was ridiculous, Slash from Guns and Roses gave an index to how huge MJ was when he said that he didn't know how Michael could have stayed sane at the level of fame he was at, and bear in mind, he himself was in the biggest rock group at the time he referred. He said there was no comparison. the only person who surpasses him for charisma is Elvis Presley in my opinion. Even grown men got nervous around MJ, see the Arsenio Hall show where he makes an appearance and watch eddie and arsenio stumble around as Mike comes on, even though they were aware of it happening beforehand and they were stars in their own rights. MJ was the most famous man on earth in his time, with possibly Muhammad Ali surpassing him worldwide. Just look at what happened to the internet after he died, the whole damn net came crashing down with the news.

that's right, charisma is a magical thing which really can't be quantified but I've heard similar stories about MJ, Elvis and Prince, how you could feel their presence before you saw them. Same stories, just different names "everyone's head would automatically turn and there he would be".

Free2BMe said:

laurarichardson said:

no, he sold 40 million album in one swoop. It was not overated.

No, his celebrity status was not overrated. There was just something about him that can't be explained. He had, and still has an effect on people that is awe-inspiring. I have read of people who say that when he walked into a room, it was if the molecules, or something to that effect, changed. Btw, these were famous people, not just the regular MJ fan. I remember when he came to my city during the Bad tour, he could have sold out two weeks of tickets or more; however, he was only scheduled for three shows and people were actually crying when they couldn't get tickets.There were hundreds of people outside the venue wanting to get in, because it was rumored that another show would be added. Bottomline, is that there has never been any other artist in history who has had the type of celebrity and fame that Michael had . Even with all of the shit and negativity that Michael had to endure, his celebrity still prevailed. Thus the reason that he SOLD-OUT 50 shows in ONE city with no new album, no promotion, no interviews; nothing except his name and celebrity. No, his fame was not overrated. Of course, you have some who want to tear down Michael , in order to build up their favorite. Pathetic and immature!

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

However, when I see clips of people fainting and crying at the sight of him and had to be carried away by ambulence ... honestly, it's a little cringey.

Yeah, I don't know how I'd react if I ever met Michael Jackson (if he was still alive), but still wasn't his celebrity status a little overrated?

And people didn't do that shit before Michael Jackson, ever watched a film of any early Beatles or Rolling Stones concert - you can't hear anything but girls screaming. To me fainting at a conert and being carried away on an ambulance sounds more like something in the 1960s at a Beatles concert.

In fact in 1987, the UK did a series of stamps showing the centenary of St Johns Ambulance service and the 4 stamps had, an original stretcher of 1887, a Blitz ambulance in 1940 and the last stamp a modern 1987 ambulance pick up, the 3rd stamp said 1960s' and showed a fainting girl on a stretcher next to a "We Love you Ringo" sign.

.

Dollybirds and 14 year old girly girls have been shrieking at pop idols since the Frank Sinatra bobby soxers craze of like 1943, many critics called in Sinatrauma. Then in the 1956/58 era it was Elvis and then the Beatles and the Stones in the 1960s, in the UK at least it was Bowie and TREX in the early 70s, by the mid 70s it was Bobby Sherman, David Essex, the Osmonds, Jackson 5 etc. Even today if you go to a No Direction or Justin Bieber show, it is more of the same.

.

So a poorly disguised front for another "Lets bash Michael Jackson thread"

Well, to be honest, people were passing out because of the lack of air at these concerts, not because of MJ. You could also see it at their faces (red) that they were overheated. That's what lead to passing out.

To his fame. Was it overrated? Let me put it this way, I think that there are better musicians who maybe deserve the same amount of fame as MJ. But they won't ever get it because they don't fit in the mainstream.

MJ's sound wasn't really his own, it was Quincy Jones, to say otherwise would be disrespectful towards Quincy. But he got hyped for it, so I think that MJ as a pure musician was overrated, because he couldn't pull it off all by himself.

But as a performer? I think the hype for him as a performer was okay, because he was one hell of a dancer. Many people copy it, but no one (Usher, JT etc) can pull it off like MJ. They look like Copy Cats. Sure MJ was inspired by people such as Fred Astaire but he didn't look like a copy cat. You could actually see how the moves evolved when MJ did it.

So I would say, in some aspects he was overrated, but I think you could say that about everyone in the business, I mean, hype sells, right? But I wouldn't say his fame is overrated. MJ deserved his fame more than most artists.

ThatWhiteDude said:

Well, to be honest, people were passing out because of the lack of air at these concerts, not because of MJ. You could also see it at their faces (red) that they were overheated. That's what lead to passing out.

To his fame. Was it overrated? Let me put it this way, I think that there are better musicians who maybe deserve the same amount of fame as MJ. But they won't ever get it because they don't fit in the mainstream.

MJ's sound wasn't really his own, it was Quincy Jones, to say otherwise would be disrespectful towards Quincy. But he got hyped for it, so I think that MJ as a pure musician was overrated, because he couldn't pull it off all by himself.

But as a performer? I think the hype for him as a performer was okay, because he was one hell of a dancer. Many people copy it, but no one (Usher, JT etc) can pull it off like MJ. They look like Copy Cats. Sure MJ was inspired by people such as Fred Astaire but he didn't look like a copy cat. You could actually see how the moves evolved when MJ did it.

So I would say, in some aspects he was overrated, but I think you could say that about everyone in the business, I mean, hype sells, right? But I wouldn't say his fame is overrated. MJ deserved his fame more than most artists.

If you never went to any of these concerts back in the day how do you know what you are even talking about. I went to festival shows and I remember pleny of air being in the room.

Girls passed out because they were excited and screaming continuoulsy. I have gone to Prince concerts and while I never saw anyone fall out I saw plenty of girls screaming to the point of exhaustion.

I know what I am talking about. You can see it in their faces, they are red! And that happens when you are overheated. And I know people who went to concerts like that and they all say the same: Lack of space and pushing=lack of air + overheating = passing out.

laurarichardson said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Well, to be honest, people were passing out because of the lack of air at these concerts, not because of MJ. You could also see it at their faces (red) that they were overheated. That's what lead to passing out.

To his fame. Was it overrated? Let me put it this way, I think that there are better musicians who maybe deserve the same amount of fame as MJ. But they won't ever get it because they don't fit in the mainstream.

MJ's sound wasn't really his own, it was Quincy Jones, to say otherwise would be disrespectful towards Quincy. But he got hyped for it, so I think that MJ as a pure musician was overrated, because he couldn't pull it off all by himself.

But as a performer? I think the hype for him as a performer was okay, because he was one hell of a dancer. Many people copy it, but no one (Usher, JT etc) can pull it off like MJ. They look like Copy Cats. Sure MJ was inspired by people such as Fred Astaire but he didn't look like a copy cat. You could actually see how the moves evolved when MJ did it.

So I would say, in some aspects he was overrated, but I think you could say that about everyone in the business, I mean, hype sells, right? But I wouldn't say his fame is overrated. MJ deserved his fame more than most artists.

If you never went to any of these concerts back in the day how do you know what you are even talking about. I went to festival shows and I remember pleny of air being in the room.

Girls passed out because they were excited and screaming continuoulsy. I have gone to Prince concerts and while I never saw anyone fall out I saw plenty of girls screaming to the point of exhaustion.

But you were not there. How old are you? Girls scream and yell to the point of making themselves ill. Same thing happened during the Sinatra era and often these girls were passing out outside.

ThatWhiteDude said:

I know what I am talking about. You can see it in their faces, they are red! And that happens when you are overheated. And I know people who went to concerts like that and they all say the same: Lack of space and pushing=lack of air + overheating = passing out.

laurarichardson said:

If you never went to any of these concerts back in the day how do you know what you are even talking about. I went to festival shows and I remember pleny of air being in the room.

Girls passed out because they were excited and screaming continuoulsy. I have gone to Prince concerts and while I never saw anyone fall out I saw plenty of girls screaming to the point of exhaustion.

How do you wanna fucking know what I've witnessed and what not? I'm 21 and I went to some concerts and I fucking see it when someone is overheating. It has nothing to do with the person who gives the concert. That's a myth! You said that you went to P concerts too, well, his fans screamed like MJ's fans too. But no one passed out? Ask yourself why! Because there was enough space to fucking breathe.

It's pissing me off that delusional fans always ignore facts just to hype their idols even more!

laurarichardson said:

But you were not there. How old are you? Girls scream and yell to the point of making themselves ill. Same thing happened during the Sinatra era and often these girls were passing out outside.

ThatWhiteDude said:

I know what I am talking about. You can see it in their faces, they are red! And that happens when you are overheated. And I know people who went to concerts like that and they all say the same: Lack of space and pushing=lack of air + overheating = passing out.

laurarichardson said:

But you were not there. How old are you? Girls scream and yell to the point of making themselves ill. Same thing happened during the Sinatra era and often these girls were passing out outside or in venues that were they were not packed in like sardines.

https://vimeo.com/88820695

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq_wus1KL6Q

ThatWhiteDude said:

I know what I am talking about. You can see it in their faces, they are red! And that happens when you are overheated. And I know people who went to concerts like that and they all say the same: Lack of space and pushing=lack of air + overheating = passing out.

laurarichardson said:

laurarichardson said:

But you were not there. How old are you? Girls scream and yell to the point of making themselves ill. Same thing happened during the Sinatra era and often these girls were passing out outside or in venues that were they were not packed in like sardines.

https://vimeo.com/88820695

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq_wus1KL6Q

It's still overheating, I don't give a flying fuck about your videos, I've seen them often enough. It's only used to build the hype up more! It. Is. Overheating.

ThatWhiteDude said:

Sure MJ was inspired by people such as Fred Astaire but he didn't look like a copy cat.

you know this, right? https://www.youtube.com/w...-qUMzMVzdw

TheFman said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Sure MJ was inspired by people such as Fred Astaire but he didn't look like a copy cat.

you know this, right? https://www.youtube.com/w...-qUMzMVzdw

Never seen it. But his fame is still not overrated

[Edited 11/14/17 6:16am]

that voice certainly was....

so NOW we're judging by the amount of screams of fans??

luvsexy4all said:

so NOW we're judging by the amount of screams of fans??

Well, some do actually. And some say that them fans passing out indicates the greatness of a performer, when you can explaine it with overheating.

luvsexy4all said:

I dont know how old you are but my first musical memories is watching Michael Jackson performed what looked like MAGIC in front my my eyes.
Not overrated. You're just not a fan.

ThatWhiteDude said:

laurarichardson said:

It's still overheating, I don't give a flying fuck about your videos, I've seen them often enough. It's only used to build the hype up more! It. Is. Overheating.

I guess you do not give a flying fuck about answere these questions.

But you were not there. How old are you?

Or that you are not and never were a young girl screaming at concert. Something I know more about then you do.

ThatWhiteDude said:

MJ's sound wasn't really his own, it was Quincy Jones, to say otherwise would be disrespectful towards Quincy.

Quincy had nothing to do with The Jacksons albums like Destiny, Triumph, & Victory. Even some of Jermaine's songs had the sound the brothers had like Gotta Have You and songs Marlon produced for Betty Wright & Janet. Jermaine never worked with Quincy. Jermaine wasn't even on We Are The World with the other brothers & LaToya. If Mike sold becasuse of Quincy, then Patti Austin, James Ingram, Brothers Johnson, Rufus, Siedah Garrett, etc would have sold just as well and be as popular as Mike. Also Quincy's albums under his own name would be huge sellers. I doubt Q's Jook Joint & Back On The Block sold as much as Dangerous & HIStory. Mike continued to have success after leaving Quincy, when Quincy's jazzy Westcoast AOR sound fell out of popularity when hip hop & New Jack Swing hit.

MickyDolenz said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

MJ's sound wasn't really his own, it was Quincy Jones, to say otherwise would be disrespectful towards Quincy.

Quincy had nothing to do with The Jacksons albums like Destiny, Triumph, & Victory. Even some of Jermaine's songs had the sound the brothers had like Gotta Have You and songs Marlon produced for Betty Wright & Janet. Jermaine never worked with Quincy. Jermaine wasn't even on We Are The World with the other brothers & LaToya. If Mike sold becasuse of Quincy, then Patti Austin, James Ingram, Brothers Johnson, Rufus, Siedah Garrett, etc would have sold just as well and be as popular as Mike. Also Quincy's albums under his own name would be huge sellers. I doubt Q's Jook Joint & Back On The Block sold as much as Dangerous & HIStory. Mike continued to have success after leaving Quincy, when Quincy's jazzy Westcoast AOR sound fell out of popularity when hip hop & New Jack Swing hit.

That's like: team A lost against Team B, Team C won against Team B, so Team A will lose against team C. Just The Same Nonsense.

MickyDolenz said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

MJ's sound wasn't really his own, it was Quincy Jones, to say otherwise would be disrespectful towards Quincy.

Quincy had nothing to do with The Jacksons albums like Destiny, Triumph, & Victory. Even some of Jermaine's songs had the sound the brothers had like Gotta Have You and songs Marlon produced for Betty Wright & Janet. Jermaine never worked with Quincy. Jermaine wasn't even on We Are The World with the other brothers & LaToya. If Mike sold becasuse of Quincy, then Patti Austin, James Ingram, Brothers Johnson, Rufus, Siedah Garrett, etc would have sold just as well and be as popular as Mike. Also Quincy's albums under his own name would be huge sellers. I doubt Q's Jook Joint & Back On The Block sold as much as Dangerous & HIStory. Mike continued to have success after leaving Quincy, when Quincy's jazzy Westcoast AOR sound fell out of popularity when hip hop & New Jack Swing hit.

But these albums weren't as groundbreaking as Thriller, wich has Quincy's sound. You do know that Mike was the one who said that Hip Hop is dead, right? And he still needed Teddy Riley for the New Jack Swing sound.

laurarichardson said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

It's still overheating, I don't give a flying fuck about your videos, I've seen them often enough. It's only used to build the hype up more! It. Is. Overheating.

I guess you do not give a flying fuck about answere these questions.

But you were not there. How old are you?

Or that you are not and never were a young girl screaming at concert. Something I know more about then you do.

I already said I am 21 years old. And I witnessed the same shit on other concerts, and no one, no matter how much they screamed, passed the fuck out.

What just 'cause you're a girl means you know more about screaming girls than I do? Hahaha, I'm sorry, but that's not fucking rocket science tho.

ThatWhiteDude said:

You do know that Mike was the one who said that Hip Hop is dead, right?

Prince made Dead On It and later got TC Ellis, Tony M, and Carmen Electra and then made songs with Doug E Fresh, Eve, Chuck D and others

MickyDolenz said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

You do know that Mike was the one who said that Hip Hop is dead, right?

Prince made Dead On It and later got TC Ellis, Tony M, and Carmen Electra and then made songs with Doug E Fresh, Eve, Chuck D and others

Ehm, yes but he wasn't the subject, right? And still MJ said Hip Hop was dead. And Prince didn't need them for the sound of the albums, he needed Tony M for rapping.

[Edited 11/14/17 9:42am]

ThatWhiteDude said:

Ehm, yes but he wasn't the subject, right? And still MJ said Hip Hop was dead.

People say all kinds of things. Depending on what mood he was in, John Lennon would say the Beatles were great or rubbish.

MickyDolenz said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Ehm, yes but he wasn't the subject, right? And still MJ said Hip Hop was dead.

People say all kinds of things. Depending on what mood he was in, John Lennon would say the Beatles were great or rubbish.

I only said what he said. And you blame MJ's statement on his mood, but implied that Prince meant what he said.

ThatWhiteDude said:

I only said what he said. And you blame MJ's statement on his mood, but implied that Prince meant what he said.

I said nothing about Mike's mood. I mentioned John Lennon's mood. I said Prince said the same thing and then did another. People do it all the time, they change their minds. Mike was a Jehovah's Witness and then left. Prince became one in his later years. George Harrison was raised as a Catholic then got into Hinduism as an adult. Sammy Davis Jr has at different times been into Satanism & Judiasm. Many people don't keep the same ideas their entire life.

luvsexy4all said:

Absolutely not overrated if you have a memory of the era and his persona. He also toured areas that did not normally get stars of his caliber, so the fainting is actually understandable.

Cinny said:

Absolutely not overrated if you have a memory of the era and his persona. He also toured areas that did not normally get stars of his caliber, so the fainting is actually understandable.

Also it is common in certain kinds of churches, where (usually) women would get the Holy Ghost and sometimes pass out. I've seen it myself and the church was cold inside because they had an air conditioner. This church had a nurse to take care of anyone who passed out.