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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > How did people feel about Lionel winning AoTY at the '85 Grammys?
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Reply #60 posted 07/09/17 12:18pm

MotownSubdivis
ion

MickyDolenz said:



MotownSubdivision said:


"...Well Whitney couldn't play instruments! She never wrote her own songs! She was never as critically acclaimed or as influential as Prince so what if she sold more albums and had more #1's! She's not Prince!"

I think the idea of particular albums being a big deal and the importance of singers/bands self writing was invented by the rock press like Rolling Stone magazine. They're the ones who make lists about the best album, band, etc. Before that there weren't really people writing about Bing Crosby's albums being more important than Julie London's or Harry Belafonte's. The album in itself came around in the late 1940s, before that there were mostly 78s, which is basically a single. There was also 16rpm records, which were mainly used for speeches & spoken word because the sound quality was said to be not that good. Nobody cared if the Andrews Sisters, Andy Williams, or Kay Starr wrote their own songs or played instruments on their records. The idea of "one man band" records was impossible because of the recording technology of the time. Most pre-Beatles acts did not self write and it was common for several singers recording the same songs. These songs became to be called standards usually written by non-performing songwriters. Songwriters wrote the songs, singers sang them, and producers and/or arrangers were behind the records. Most post-Beatles acts also did not self write, but the rock press made these acts sound less important than the ones who wrote their own stuff. That's probably why R&B and pop isn't taken that seriously as the songs are often not written by the singers, but by professional songwriters or producers. The Beatles, who wrote their songs, are considered more important than Vanilla Fudge, who generally remade current hits in a psychedelic style.

I think the rock press' word is taken too seriously at times. Many talented artists haven't gotten the credit they deserve because they don't fit the exact mold that rock critics have for artists.
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Reply #61 posted 07/09/17 2:39pm

Lammastide

avatar

I recall I was PISSED! pissed But looking back, yes, any of the contenders would have been deserving winners.

Ὅσον ζῇς φαίνου
μηδὲν ὅλως σὺ λυποῦ
πρὸς ὀλίγον ἐστὶ τὸ ζῆν
τὸ τέλος ὁ χρόνος ἀπαιτεῖ.”
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Reply #62 posted 07/10/17 11:38am

MickyDolenz

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MotownSubdivision said:

I think the rock press' word is taken too seriously at times. Many talented artists haven't gotten the credit they deserve because they don't fit the exact mold that rock critics have for artists.

Rock magazines mostly were the only ones out there that reached the mainstream public who was interested in music. Rolling Stone wasn't strictly music either. It featured actors, movies, TV, books, and sometimes politics. There weren't really magazines for R&B or pop music except for teen magazines. There were niche magazines for jazz, blues, country, classical, and different instruments. But they weren't carried in as many places as the Rolling Stone style mags, you might only see them in a bookstore which smaller towns & rural areas might not have.

You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton
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Reply #63 posted 07/17/17 10:06am

MotownSubdivis
ion

MickyDolenz said:



MotownSubdivision said:


I think the rock press' word is taken too seriously at times. Many talented artists haven't gotten the credit they deserve because they don't fit the exact mold that rock critics have for artists.

Rock magazines mostly were the only ones out there that reached the mainstream public who was interested in music. Rolling Stone wasn't strictly music either. It featured actors, movies, TV, books, and sometimes politics. There weren't really magazines for R&B or pop music except for teen magazines. There were niche magazines for jazz, blues, country, classical, and different instruments. But they weren't carried in as many places as the Rolling Stone style mags, you might only see them in a bookstore which smaller towns & rural areas might not have.

Even after all these years with the numerous changes that have taken place, rock critics still are the primary critics of music as a whole.
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Reply #64 posted 07/17/17 10:44am

2freaky4church
1

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Lionel is a hack.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #65 posted 07/18/17 5:54am

ReddBlitz
But Can't Slow Down was released in '83. Purple Rain, of course, in '84 so by this time, Richie's album was coming close in entering its second year since its official release. Any of the two could've taken it because the competition at that time was very stiff.
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Reply #66 posted 07/21/17 5:35pm

majissty

OUTRAGEOUS.

If U came 2 get your 'Purple Rain' on...U'RE IN THE WRONG HOUSE!!!!!!
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Reply #67 posted 07/21/17 8:42pm

daingermouz202
0

SoulAlive said:



Scorp said:


Cant Slow Down was an exceptional album across the board. Lionel Richie at his apex James Carmichael delivered exceptional level of production for that album and


"Love Will Find A Way" is my favorite track music




WOW, that's my favorite also.
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Reply #68 posted 07/22/17 5:34pm

MotownSubdivis
ion

daingermouz2020 said:

SoulAlive said:



Scorp said:


Cant Slow Down was an exceptional album across the board. Lionel Richie at his apex James Carmichael delivered exceptional level of production for that album and


"Love Will Find A Way" is my favorite track music




WOW, that's my favorite also.
That song is a jam. Was listening to it last week. Definitely one of Lionel's best music
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Reply #69 posted 07/22/17 5:37pm

MotownSubdivis
ion

ReddBlitz said:

But Can't Slow Down was released in '83. Purple Rain, of course, in '84 so by this time, Richie's album was coming close in entering its second year since its official release. Any of the two could've taken it because the competition at that time was very stiff.
My point exactly. It was a win-win-win-win-win between Lionel, Prince, Tina, Bruce and Cyndi.
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Reply #70 posted 07/23/17 10:03am

TD3

avatar

phunkdaddy said:

Hey I'm gonna tell yall some crazy shit. I was a freshman at the University of South

Carolina and we had a section of dorms called the Honey Combs where i resided. 4 of the dorms were men and 2 of them were women. On Grammy night that year everybody was watching. After

the Grammys people in the men's dorms lost their damn minds. Everyone was yelling out the dorm balconies who they thought should have won the awards. People were yelling Bruce Springsteen and Prince. It was like an epic battle between those two. I was LMAO. A few people called Lionel's name. Fucking Bruce Springsteen the boss you fucker. Fuck you Prince is the king bitch. It got so bad to the point the resident hall director started going around each floor to see who was causing the commotion. It's still one of the craziest things I've ever experienced. It went on for 35 to 40 minutes. lol I was expecting Prince to cash in on Grammy night but you can't argue with Lionel's success that year too with Can't Slow Down.


[Edited 7/2/17 20:42pm]



Still a lil' bit RAW about this, uh? . lol lol lol

As I've always said, the Grammys are a fucking joke. That award show should not be considered a barometer on anybodies music career. If everyone knew why the Grammy were made up in the 1st place, then everyone would understand its a pub show for the major middle of the road record companies. Hell, if an artist never won one of these pseudo-tin brass trophies, it should be considered an honor. lol

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Reply #71 posted 07/23/17 10:57am

Scorp

TD3 said:

phunkdaddy said:

Hey I'm gonna tell yall some crazy shit. I was a freshman at the University of South

Carolina and we had a section of dorms called the Honey Combs where i resided. 4 of the dorms were men and 2 of them were women. On Grammy night that year everybody was watching. After

the Grammys people in the men's dorms lost their damn minds. Everyone was yelling out the dorm balconies who they thought should have won the awards. People were yelling Bruce Springsteen and Prince. It was like an epic battle between those two. I was LMAO. A few people called Lionel's name. Fucking Bruce Springsteen the boss you fucker. Fuck you Prince is the king bitch. It got so bad to the point the resident hall director started going around each floor to see who was causing the commotion. It's still one of the craziest things I've ever experienced. It went on for 35 to 40 minutes. lol I was expecting Prince to cash in on Grammy night but you can't argue with Lionel's success that year too with Can't Slow Down.


[Edited 7/2/17 20:42pm]



Still a lil' bit RAW about this, uh? . lol lol lol

As I've always said, the Grammys are a fucking joke. That award show should not be considered a barometer on anybodies music career. If everyone knew why the Grammy were made up in the 1st place, then everyone would understand its a pub show for the major middle of the road record companies. Hell, if an artist never won one of these pseudo-tin brass trophies, it should be considered an honor. lol

The Grammys were toast after Milli VAnilli won those two awards back in 1990, that's when it was toast....and I knew they were lyp synching the entire time

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Reply #72 posted 07/23/17 11:21am

MotownSubdivis
ion

TD3 said:



phunkdaddy said:


Hey I'm gonna tell yall some crazy shit. I was a freshman at the University of South


Carolina and we had a section of dorms called the Honey Combs where i resided. 4 of the dorms were men and 2 of them were women. On Grammy night that year everybody was watching. After


the Grammys people in the men's dorms lost their damn minds. Everyone was yelling out the dorm balconies who they thought should have won the awards. People were yelling Bruce Springsteen and Prince. It was like an epic battle between those two. I was LMAO. A few people called Lionel's name. Fucking Bruce Springsteen the boss you fucker. Fuck you Prince is the king bitch. It got so bad to the point the resident hall director started going around each floor to see who was causing the commotion. It's still one of the craziest things I've ever experienced. It went on for 35 to 40 minutes. lol I was expecting Prince to cash in on Grammy night but you can't argue with Lionel's success that year too with Can't Slow Down.




[Edited 7/2/17 20:42pm]





Still a lil' bit RAW about this, uh? . lol lol lol





As I've always said, the Grammys are a fucking joke. That award show should not be considered a barometer on anybodies music career. If everyone knew why the Grammy were made up in the 1st place, then everyone would understand its a pub show for the major middle of the road record companies. Hell, if an artist never won one of these pseudo-tin brass trophies, it should be considered an honor. lol


You kinda explained already but why were the Grammys made in the first place?
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Reply #73 posted 07/23/17 1:37pm

MickyDolenz

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majissty said:

OUTRAGEOUS.

You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton
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Reply #74 posted 07/23/17 1:46pm

MickyDolenz

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You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton
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Reply #75 posted 07/23/17 2:28pm

TD3

avatar

MotownSubdivision said:

TD3 said:



Still a lil' bit RAW about this, uh? . lol lol lol

As I've always said, the Grammys are a fucking joke. That award show should not be considered a barometer on anybodies music career. If everyone knew why the Grammy were made up in the 1st place, then everyone would understand its a pub show for the major middle of the road record companies. Hell, if an artist never won one of these pseudo-tin brass trophies, it should be considered an honor. lol

You kinda explained already but why were the Grammys made in the first place?

Frank Sinatra was one of the principle players why the Grammy Awards (1959) came to be. It was a reaction or a backlash by Mr. Sinatra and others who hated R&B a.k.a Rock&Roll. The show was never about awarding one peers for music excellence, it was suppose to used as a "tool" to rebuff R&B /Rock & Roll as anything but real music.

YouTube Channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/ladybret

8Tracks - http://8tracks.com/ladybrett
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Reply #76 posted 07/23/17 3:09pm

Scorp

TD3 said:

MotownSubdivision said:

TD3 said: You kinda explained already but why were the Grammys made in the first place?

Frank Sinatra was one of the principle players why the Grammy Awards (1959) came to be. It was a reaction or a backlash by Mr. Sinatra and others who hated R&B a.k.a Rock&Roll. The show was never about awarding one peers for music excellence, it was suppose to used as a "tool" to rebuff R&B /Rock & Roll as anything but real music.

I can see this being the case, which is why historically, allot of the artists who should have won their nominations didnt

Thanks for the info

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Reply #77 posted 07/23/17 5:55pm

MotownSubdivis
ion

TD3 said:



MotownSubdivision said:


TD3 said:




Still a lil' bit RAW about this, uh? . lol lol lol





As I've always said, the Grammys are a fucking joke. That award show should not be considered a barometer on anybodies music career. If everyone knew why the Grammy were made up in the 1st place, then everyone would understand its a pub show for the major middle of the road record companies. Hell, if an artist never won one of these pseudo-tin brass trophies, it should be considered an honor. lol




You kinda explained already but why were the Grammys made in the first place?



Frank Sinatra was one of the principle players why the Grammy Awards (1959) came to be. It was a reaction or a backlash by Mr. Sinatra and others who hated R&B a.k.a Rock&Roll. The show was never about awarding one peers for music excellence, it was suppose to used as a "tool" to rebuff R&B /Rock & Roll as anything but real music.



Intriguing. I didn't think someone like Sinatra would have been so close-minded on something like this.

Well their goal kinda failed as time went on and music evolved but all the same, shades of their intentions are still prevalent in many of the snubs that have taken place over the past few decades. The agenda just evolved with the music which is why we had Jethro Tull winning a metal award over Metallica, Macklemore/ Taylor Swift winning Rap AotY/ AotY over Kendrick and even Adele winning over Beyonce this year among others.

It's like the committee was like "These [new] genres of music are far too popular to ignore? OK, we'll recognize they exist but don't expect much more if we can work around it somehow."
[Edited 7/23/17 17:56pm]
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Reply #78 posted 07/24/17 6:25pm

Asenath0607

laurarichardson said:

MotownSubdivision said:

For reference, his competition was Tina Turner (Private Dancer), Bruce Springsteen (Born in the U.S.A.), Cyndi Lauper (She's so Unusual) and Prince (Purple Rain) against his Can't Slow Down. I think Prince should have won just like many others on here (of course) but in all honesty, there really wasn't a wrong choice to be made given the nominees. All of the nominated albums are classic blockbusters and iconic albums of the entirety of the 1980s. As far as the artists go, you have an identifiable feminist icon in Cyndi, a massive unprecedented comeback from Tina (also a feminist icon), a down-to-earth blue collar everyman in Bruce, a mysterious sexual enigma almost fresh from the underground in Prince and a likable laid back and smooth singer in Lionel. It was a win with whoever they decided on. However, considering how PR was the most commercially successful and critically acclaimed of the nominees, it is puzzling how it didn't get AoTY. [Edited 7/3/17 8:33am]

Most younger black people thought it was some bullshit. Are people buying "Can't Slow Down" today no they are buying Purple Rain. eek

Yeah, I kinda couldn't get with Richie when he went from this to Hello. But I will admit I LOVED Prince, so felt he deserved the moon and the stars at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5EmnQp3V48

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Reply #79 posted 07/24/17 6:46pm

Asenath0607

Couldn't remember what was on CSD, so had to start googling and doing some research, which led me to youtube and The Commodores. Someone posted this comment which basically sums up my thoughts of PR vs CSD: "I tell my grandkids that Lionel Richie and the Commodores funked harder than any other band that I have ever seen, and they laugh at me, because all they of is "Three Times a Lady". Thank God for YouTube." PR IMO was a more diverse, eclectic, genre bending, innovative album. Thanks OP, forgot how much I loved the Commodores music.

[Edited 7/24/17 18:47pm]

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Reply #80 posted 07/25/17 6:03am

MotownSubdivis
ion

Asenath0607 said:



laurarichardson said:




MotownSubdivision said:


For reference, his competition was Tina Turner (Private Dancer), Bruce Springsteen (Born in the U.S.A.), Cyndi Lauper (She's so Unusual) and Prince (Purple Rain) against his Can't Slow Down. I think Prince should have won just like many others on here (of course) but in all honesty, there really wasn't a wrong choice to be made given the nominees. All of the nominated albums are classic blockbusters and iconic albums of the entirety of the 1980s. As far as the artists go, you have an identifiable feminist icon in Cyndi, a massive unprecedented comeback from Tina (also a feminist icon), a down-to-earth blue collar everyman in Bruce, a mysterious sexual enigma almost fresh from the underground in Prince and a likable laid back and smooth singer in Lionel. It was a win with whoever they decided on. However, considering how PR was the most commercially successful and critically acclaimed of the nominees, it is puzzling how it didn't get AoTY. [Edited 7/3/17 8:33am]

Most younger black people thought it was some bullshit. Are people buying "Can't Slow Down" today no they are buying Purple Rain. eek



Yeah, I kinda couldn't get with Richie when he went from this to Hello. But I will admit I LOVED Prince, so felt he deserved the moon and the stars at the time.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5EmnQp3V48

Different strokes and all but laura is actually wrong if she thinks black people weren't digging Lionel back then.

According to the 1984 year end issue of Billboard, Lionel was ranked the #1 black artist, black album artist and black singles artist with CSD being the #1 black album. Black people loved Lionel in 1983/84.

The magazine is in PDF form and IDK how to post images so you can either take my word for it or I can guide you to the source.
[Edited 7/25/17 6:04am]
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Reply #81 posted 07/25/17 6:15am

MoBettaBliss

that music is as boring as bat shit to me

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Reply #82 posted 07/25/17 9:15am

MotownSubdivis
ion

MoBettaBliss said:

that music is as boring as bat shit to me

Most wouldn't describe bat shit as boring lol
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Reply #83 posted 08/27/17 11:09pm

MickyDolenz

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You can take a black guy to Nashville from right out of the cotton fields with bib overalls, and they will call him R&B. You can take a white guy in a pin-stripe suit who’s never seen a cotton field, and they will call him country. ~ O. B. McClinton
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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > How did people feel about Lionel winning AoTY at the '85 Grammys?